I will succeed!

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:05 am

This is my first post and I want to start by saying THANK YOU to all the peeps that help out here at SS. I believe it is because of y’all that there are so many inspiring success stories.

For now I’ll get right to it. I have been using sub for about 6 years. Mostly at about 1mg/day, with some year long stretches of 2 - 3 mg’s/day. Today, I am basically stable ( if there is such a thing) at .25 mg strip / 1x day.. I am giving it a couple weeks to get to about half of that then I will stay there as long as tolerable or lower depending on what my body says this time, not the mind. My brain is rather foggy now. Short term memory issues also. Which is one reason for being here.

I have been in this position before and today I believe I can do it.. There will be days when it feels impossible.. These feelings may happen several days in a row. I am now very educated (mainly because of SS)and hopefully more disciplined this time around..

I know that by me starting this thread today, not only will it help me ( because that’s what it’s for!) but it will help countless that remain anonymous as long as I did. I spent years lurking, looking for the easy way out. There isn’t one. Everyone’s detoxed before, probably on something else, this ain’t that.. Knowledge is power. Knowing this place is here to help is powerfully rewarding..

To get where I am at is hard to do. But the final step will be the most rewarding.. Every day I am closer is an accomplishment. I know that and cherish it. Life will be normal. One day.

Wanna give a huge shout out to my wife who is doing her best to learn as much as I have, and not give up on me.
With that, a bigger support system is needed. Huge thanks to this place!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby Don_Pisto » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:54 pm

Welcome and great job you did to get yourself at the point you’re at now. It takes a lot of work and perseverance to get where you’re at now. You should be proud but there’s still a little more work to do. You’re almost there.

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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Don P.. thanks for the reality check! I needed that. I have read through some of your posts and you always have great info. I will get some more info on here soon to help keep track and stay the course.. I can tell the end is near and I do fear it a little this time. Spending time at low doses almost seems like you’ve made the jump. It can be hard to tell yourself that this is only the beginning. The way I see it, it’s the beginning of a much healthier, and overall better life for me and my family.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby DietDoc » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:26 pm

.25 mg per day!!!!! Oh hell yea!!!! I know you’ve been working at that for a while and you should be damm proud. You will only move forward from here. You’ve come too far and traveled too long. You got this dude. And I’m right behind you, so leave the light on for me.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering again
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:32 am

DD, thanks for reaching out! It means a lot right now. Once educated, I have relied on the valuable information here. Over and Over I’ve had to read about this Evil Drug just to begin to understand it. It’s like when you’re on it you can’t think about anything else (and I mean that I’m SO many ways!). Your mind CONSTANTLY fucks with you. The Devil, Freddy, PAWS (cute acronym for such a demon), and real withdrawals are all things that eat at me. Understanding the difference has been a big help this time. All of these seem like real world problems! They aren’t!! They’re my problems not any ones else’s!! Anyway thanks for letting me vent! Off to work.

P.S. getting down this far has not, by any means, been intolerable. At times very uncomfortable.
At 1 mg/1x day and below life starts to get better, and better. My drops were to .75, .5, and .25. All about 2 weeks apart. There were some uncomfortable nights and early mornings. But not intolerable. I plan on going a little slower for now especially considering the length of time I used and my last failed attempt 1 year ago. I was so close then!!! Agh!!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby cheeps » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:35 am

Smots....you might want to do no more than a 25% reduction each time in these low numbers.......I know that might be hard to figure but it will help you even out better.....you are so close...don't go too fast!
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby cheeps » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:36 am

Do you have pills, strips or liquid?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:33 am

Currently I am using 8mg strips, cut down. It is getting a bit difficult to measure exactly. So the liquid taper is seeming like a must do real soon. Change is unwanted at this point. But advice here will be taken sincerely.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:41 am

Smots. Is what my dearest and closest friends have called me for years. Cheeps you are good peeps. Thanks for all the help!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:46 am

I am definitely gonna take it slow. Nothing moves fast right now. Lol. But seriously the brain right now doesn’t quit. It is like there is a really intelligent voice trying to trick me back down the slippery slope of sub maintenance. Having SS is a huge help right now. I don’t have FB or any social media handle for that matter, so this is great. I actually enjoy something! And having peeps that WILL hold you accountable, but not judge, is awesome too!! Gotta get some work done today, though I really don’t want to do anything. Life goes on. I can keep up. And when I can’t I’ll rest. Credit the Wife for handling the Home stuff when I need to rest. She has been awesome and I couldn’t be happier!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby cheeps » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:12 pm

Smots....we call that bastard Freddy the Fucker! Dont let him win...he's a slimy, sleezy, devilish jerk that wishes sweet NOTHING in our ears.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:48 pm

Even though I know what it looks like, it comes in disguise. Literally like Freddy! The Fucker was kept at bay today. Check off that little box. I am doing everything I can to stay on track. I will keep updating on here.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:02 am

Ok I am going to try this again.. my last couple posts (last night and today) never made it, and while the site was only down for an extremely brief time, it seemed like an eternity to me! I am so thrilled to be able to write again. Somebody pm me, or put it here, to help if the site needs it. More $$$ would be easy.

Getting back to me:

11/6/17 was a good day for me! I have been at (not truly stable) 25 mg/day for about 8 days now but I have felt GREAT for days 7 and 8. Both of the previous nights(11/5 and 11/6). I had normal sleep (5-7hours) I have also slept every night during my taper to some extent. For me, I had at least 7 hours of sleep (.5mg/day and over) From .5mg/day I dropped to .25mg/day!!!!! That’s 50% and not recommended by most!! It is a drug I have done my fair share of research about and this drug does shit to your brain because it makes you want off of it!!! You want off so bad you will do just about anything. This time it made me, after 6 years of use, never prescribed by the way, and years of research on this, and wisely recommend by others not to drop that much. I STILL thought I could do a 50% drop knowing the consequences!! Nevertheless I made it 8 days at .25 mg/day, always taken in a.m., I would try to hold off til 6am but would take as early as 3am if needed. I will continue on the peices I have left as they’re cut and supposed to be .25mg. Swear 1 might be bigger!!!! Lol.. liquid taper may be crucial in getting better exact doses.

I also would like to put out there that I have several supplents coming very soon. Today or this week hopefully. They are ( in no preferential order I have yet to take them even last time i went 20 days after a rapid sub detox)

5-HTP
L-Tyrosine
Calm support
Loperamide
Kava kava
Vitamin c
B6
B12 ( didn’t help last time, it was that only thing I tried then)
Also my wife is getting some essential oils she believes this will help also.

Does Anyone have advice on when, how, what times may be best or if that is anything I might add. My wife is holding 6mg’s of alprazolam, emergency only, not until I am in real detox. Tapering slower from here on is my best!! bet.
Last edited by SmottleB on Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby Don_Pisto » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:07 pm

You’re doing great and it’s very encouraging that you are able to sleep somewhat decent at the dose you’re at.

Aside from supplements, one thing that is very helpful to add (if not already doing so) is some type of physical activity to get some exercise. There will be days where that’s the last thing you want to do, but it will be a big help in your recovery. Start slow and if you feel like you just have no energy, just doing simple things like a brisk walk is good.

Also, it’s well known that amino acids are part of the building blocks for the body making endorphins. One thing that doesn’t hurt is to supplement with a protein drink, or better yet, getting good protein from the diet.

Be good to your body during this time. Did I mention you’re doing great? Let me say it again: you’re doing great!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:29 am

Over the last couple of weeks I have had moments when my body told me to exercise. Most days though recently I have only been able to go to work and ride my bike (mile or so at a time). You mention diet, It’s crazy but I used to be able to eat whatever I want!! I’m Italian, grandmother was straight off the boat)! So pastas and bread were my go to. Now I definitely cannot tolerate wheat (gluten) seems to be the worst carbohydrate. When I eat it, it just about knocks me out, and not in a good way. I get very tired then wake feeling not good. DIET,DIET,DIET!!! Has been so helpful with so many things. I have been eating only lean meats (turkey,chicken, pork chops) eggs, fish ( love some salmon), protein blend veggies, and regular veggies, very little carbs, for me rice and potatoes don’t do the same thing as wheat. And drinking tons of water.. eating like this doesn’t sound great all the time but so far I have managed to. Eating a protein rich diet also helps with a lot of the stomach issues. I have less diarrhea and less lethargy ( stomach issues can play with your head too).
I was not able to go shopping for these items nor did I even have energy to tag along. I made a list, gave it to my wife, and let her handle the rest. She has been awesome throughout!! And what’s wrong with eating healthier! There are tons of tasty and nutritious options out there..

I have eaten pasta and bread forever and kept telling myself that. But after really observing, it is the wheat! Damn Sub add that to the list of side effects
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:04 am

One of these days I’m going to research the diet/nutrition and buprenorphine use considerations. Specifically the physiological stress of tapering. Maybe in the general section of the site I can post a fact sheet.

Smots, can I ask how old you are? Just wondering as it helps me see basic patterns. The taper reductions you’ve made are among the largest I’ve read about. Reductions that large I’ve usually only seen in people that had a finite supply of ‘medication’ or some other compelling reason that had to expedite totally getting off as quick as possible.

For me, and this is purely psychological, .25 mg/d has always been the dose I see as the holy grail of tapering doses.
I cannot believe you’ve slept as much as you have. That is amazing. At about 1.5 mg/d my sleep began to deteriorate. Hence my resent benzo debacle.

You wrote ‘never perscribed’. Have you been on Suboxone for 6 years without using a doctor? Wasn’t there ‘dry times’? Maybe I didn’t read that right. I don’t mean to ask so many questions man...sorry. It’s just amazing to me if that’s the case.

I’m sure you’re like no duh but is it possible for you to get 2 mg strips? You need so few but it would make things a lot easier descending from .25 mg/d. Or are you definitely going liquid method from here? It works for sure but personally I made it this far with cutting film so I don’t want to change.

I am truly amazed and inspired by, shall we say, the tempo at which you’ve got to where you are. Your story really invigorates my hope. Thanks.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:15 am

I am 32 years old.
History:
At 15 years old I broke my left leg severely, fall from height, compound tib fib. (Compound=it came though the skin)1st stay in hospital was 2 weeks. The entire time I was on IV pain meds. And went through 2 surgeries at this point.This was my first introduction in pain meds. I was also sent home with some.

2 months later the external fixator(8 pins total) gnarly piece of hardware. Became infected at some of the pin sites. Back to the hospital. I was not in severe pain but the whole thing just looked bad. When I get a room the first nurse I remember came in with a big ole iv morphine. This time I knew what she was about to do. I prepared and took that like a champ. She was not supposed to give me that. I had been on 0 pain meds for 2 months (mom knew I was sick when I got home, the first time, so she wouldn’t let me take them).. needless to say the doc found out and reamed her. Toradol after that. This time I stayed 10 days, also during this stay I was put under to remove 1 pin. 7 remained to be removed later. So total of 4 surgeries. I made it through all of that and continued to play sports once rehabilitated.

From ages 17-22 I would do anything that was put in front of me. At this time my DOC was heroin, snorted) And wouldn’t you know as soon as life really starts I got the settlement $. But I hit rock bottom, of course, and I was able to get clean then with a sparingly 20mg or so of a methadone wafer. This was all before and after hurricane Katrina. At 22 I managed to beat the devil and had a good job with a foreseeable future.

Then I met my current wife, and have been trying to live up to standards. I did great for many years, I never really enjoyed drinking, although I got buzzed way too much! I managed a restaurant and had all access to liquor!
I was first introduced to sub by a friend at work (I knew it could be trouble when I hired him. He was a child hood friend that went through everything with me). He knew how strong they were and probably only gave me .5mg of a strip. I was way too messed up! The next time he gave me some, it was so much I would save some. Soon as I had access to having it everyday I realized I was hooked. I planned very well. When they came around I would get enough for the month. That turned to a supply that I had to keep filled. I rarely ran out, and if I did I was so messy that I could find a piece or a crumb and get by. It’s that strong.

About a year ago exactly there was a ‘dry spell’ and it was the kind that you think you might not ever get sub again. Back then I was able to do basically the same taper. (Not planned, I just had a few strips I knew I could make last.. yea Right!!) I tried to “make it work”. Then after 20 days of madness stress got to me and by Thanksgiving I tried to “ re-stabilize” at .2 mg or so. From there I increased as needed. . So over the last YEAR I haven’t gone over 1mg/day. (Always strip under tongue). That might have something to do with it.
Last edited by SmottleB on Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:51 am

I have never even seen a 2 mg strip. I wish!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:38 pm

This time I decided to start tapering because I noticed I was taking more and more and before it gets out of control again, I would try again. I was probably taking a tad bit more than 1mg/day, I was tearing them instead of precutting them, and on occasion would dose 2x a day. As soon as I noticed it was starting again, I started precutting the doses and got back down to 1mg/1x day. Tearing a piece each day leaves too much room for failure. This drug is way too powerful to be guessing. What I would do is, after I cut each dose whatever size it was I would put them in descending order starting with the biggest one first. My cuts were not exact, but close enough. This is how I got from .5 to .25 mg. It is more likely that the bigger .25’s were more like .35’s. Also there were a couple of nights I couldn’t handle. These nights (basically 8 hours from next scheduled dose) I would take up to 1/3 of my next scheduled dose. The following morning I would take the rest of that dose. It was in this manner I avoided going up during the taper.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:27 am

Heh man just wanted to say I read your thread and you and I are pretty much right around the same dose.. I was at .25 for the last 22 days and just dropped to .19 yesterday. Your doing a hell of a job on your taper so keep up da good work!! I was curious if you have started any of those supplements yet and if so if you have noticed any difference in how you are feeling. I have been thinking of starting a few of these same supplements so I hope they are helping a bit!! Anyways nice to meet u mehn, Best T
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