HELP

This fourm is for people struggling to get off methadone. If you are a methadone advocate then please PISS OFF!

HELP

Postby D.O.M.M. » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:20 pm

I have been on MMT for 13 years. My clinic refused to detox me so I started doing it myself. Because I am a code M I get 27 dry take home doses per month. Once I acquired enough extra poison I told my clinic Dr. to :blowme: and resumed my taper on my own. I am down to 5 mgs from 140 6 months ago and I am dying. I don't sleep for days and when I do its for like 3 hours. My skin burns and the touch of clothes or even blankets on my skin hurts. The muscle tension is literally ripping my bones out of alignment and all my joints and bones hurt. I have terrible RLS and RDS (restless dick syndrome). I have cold intolerence and am always freezing. My tendons and ligaments feel like they are made out of ropes being pulled at both ends Does this stuff go away or am I doomed to stay this way? A lot of my symptoms are very similar to what I have read about Fibromyalgia but I never felt this way until withdrawal. Is this stuff normal? Any input appreciated.
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Re: HELP

Postby nootlsjr » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:56 pm

Im an exsub h head, but it sounds like the same symptoms I get. just much more harsh and longer for you. It takes balls to face your problems, and not roll over and die. getting clean is inevitable till death, but is the pain worth the rest of your life?? is there a choice. forever pain, or pain and pleasure. take the sacrifice and stick with it. [taper/jump]. hopefully someone more educated with meth will come by shortly, but just wanted to say. its inspiration to have someone to clean the shit off my shoes with. it really gets in there. lol. congrats to the start of many good choices, and much pleasure to come. peace.
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Re: HELP

Postby Not a 12 stepper » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:51 pm

From what I know, it's time to jump, if your already down to 5 mg.

At least, that's where I jumped from, since I was suffering through hell anyway-

Do you have any comfort meds?
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Re: HELP

Postby cheeps » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:14 am

I agree....you've done a fast taper....

NotAStepper and I have both done meth detoxes. You do need some comfort meds....what can you dig up?
10 yrs on methadone
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Re: HELP

Postby syd » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:40 am

Hi D.O.M.M.


The reason you are feeling so bad is you tapered WAY WAY WAY too fast and never gave your body time to stabilize on your drops. Typically getting down to 20 mg is pretty easy. But there is where you needed to slow it down. I gave myself a minimum of 2 weeks to get used to the drops. At 10mg it gets even harder and requires more time to stabilize. But even then, it wasn't nearly close to what you are going thru. I'd personally do 100 methadone detoxes compared to just one heroin cold turkey.

With the exception of some RLS at 10 mg, I never felt any of the symptoms you have till 3 days After my last dose of methadone. Since you are already in withdrawal, I agree with Not A and Cheeps, you may as well go ahead and jump. It's not gonna get much worse. Do you have access to any Xanax? They are hands down the best comfort med for detox. I only had a very few, but boy, did they make a difference.

IF you decide to go ahead and jump, drink copious amounts of water to flush the methadone out of your system. You need to be peeing every 10 min. I'm serious. Avoid stimulants such as energy drinks and caffeine. Try your best to exercise/keep moving to get the stored up methadone out of your body. Breaking a sweat is good as it's our body's way of riding itself of toxins. If you use an anti antiperspirant don't. Use deodorant instead so it doesn't interfere with the sweating process.

It takes some time to feel better, especially considering you were on for 13 yrs. Be patient. Don't get discouraged. Just ride it out. I wish you had found SubSux sooner. I could have gotten you thru this with little discomfort. But, what's done is done. If I can help you in any way, don't hesitate to ask.
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Re: HELP

Postby D.O.M.M. » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:23 pm

Thanks for the responses. My reasons for the fast taper is I truly believe Methadone is destroying my body. around year 10 my bones began to ache and I started to get that (hunchback) posture that I see in the people who have been on MMT for years and years. It was a huge wakeup call but for 98 percent of the people out here MMT is a life sentence. I was planning on committing suicide until my niece was born 6 months ago and i felt like I owed it to her and myself to try. My clinic refused to detox me. I am from Chicago and the clinics out here are pure evil. They said if I wanted to reduce my dosage it would have to be at a rate of 2mgs a week with periodic holds and that my take home status would be revoked. It was a total manipulation. So I began dropping on my own and saving the extra. I guess in hindsight I wanted to punish myself to for destroying my soul and not being strong enough to do this years ago. I am 36 years old and was very active and healthy looking up until about two years ago when I realized I was losing bone mass. I want my health back and I couldn't bare to spend several more years poisoning myself every day.

To answer your questions; I have klonopin, neurontin,clonidine, and cymbalta. They helped alot until I got down around 30 mgs. That is when my symptoms really took off.

Question: why should i ditch the antidepressant?

Question: Have you guys regained normal pain sensetivity and if so after how long?

Question: What is the long term damage?


Thanks for your quick replies and MUCH RESPECT to those that have gotten off this crap and made it. I have never met anyone that beat methadone after 7 or more years of MMT I never expected to make it this far. Thanks for the support.

D.O.M.M. (dying on methadone maintenance)
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Re: HELP

Postby runthemachine » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:50 pm

I'm pullin' (HARD!) for you, Dude(ette). I wrote a big, long thing... and it got fuckin' disappeared. Pissed about that. Ugh...

One of the important things I'd said in the 4 paragraph, 20 minute post I was trying to send you was..

Your 'comfort meds' (oxi-moron, I know) sound right. EsPECially the klonopin, & clonadine. At the end of the day, seroquel was the ONLY thing that eventually gave me the precious sleep I would have murdered for. Other than that.... medicinally? There just ain't some, yo. Not to my knowledge.

My only experience with 'done, was getting yummy-high from it in pill form (many, many times..). Sub is called 'methadone lite' by some, so... I can only imagine the shitty world you're clawing your way through. So sorry for your troubles, man. :cry: Liquid handcuffs, Orange Fuck... it's ALL bad, I know.

You're getting the best advice you can find on the web, imo. cheeps, syd, NA 12 ~ they know your beast intimately, and by name. Oh, and super proud of you for tapering on your own and keeping your own council with your doses. That's fuckin' epic shit, right there. :shred:

I think the urging to just jump, at this point (5 mgs??) is the best you'll hear. Hey... it's gonna suck. A LOT. And for more than a minute. Again.. I'm sad for your struggles.

BUT, a couple 2/3 months from today?? You'll be like "Yeah... it still sucks sometimes. But not nearly as hard, or nearly as often as it did, just a few weeks ago.". Then you'll know your whole fucking world has changed. Suicide will be the furthest thing from your mind, yo. I swear on my kid's eyes.

Again, I'm totally pulling for you, D.O.M.M... in a big way.

This is what I send to people who are fearlessly (.. or fearfully) taking on the world.. and have a fighting chance. Like you, obviously, do.

Rock out with your...

Eternally... free from nothing.
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Re: HELP

Postby syd » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:41 pm

How long have you been at 5mg? Are you familiar with the term "stacked doses"?

D.O.M.M hold on tight to that anger you have for the clinic. It will serve you well in the weeks to come. Anger, IMO is the single most powerful tool you can have.

Regarding comfort meds; And this is for ANYONE thinking of tapering/detoxing off long acting opiates...They should be saved for AFTER the jump.

Moving along...were you depressed and on antidepressants before methadone?

Once you jump, your pain level may skyrocket. So, it might get worse before it gets better. Remember you brain hasnt made it's own opiates for a very long time and has forgot how. But, it does fix itself. Yes you will regain normal pain sensitivity. How long depends on a lot of things, like were you in pain before mmt?

Long term damage? I was on mmt for just over 8 yrs, detoxed in my 50's and happy to say, I have Absolutely NO damage. At you age, you should bounce bad a tad quicker.

Run you nailed it when you said it made you feel yummy. I think between pain pills, sub and methadone, methadone wins hands down, for coming the closest to mimicking a heroin high/true nod. Just like with sub, the trick is to get off a quickly as possible. Unfortunately few of us do, because these damn clinics and doctors are in it for the money.
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Re: HELP

Postby runthemachine » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:56 pm

syd wrote:How long have you been at 5mg? Are you familiar with the term "stacked doses"?

D.O.M.M hold on tight to that anger you have for the clinic. It will serve you well in the weeks to come. Anger, IMO is the single most powerful tool you can have.

Regarding comfort meds; And this is for ANYONE thinking of tapering/detoxing off long acting opiates...They should be saved for AFTER the jump.

Moving along...were you depressed and on antidepressants before methadone?

Once you jump, your pain level may skyrocket. So, it might get worse before it gets better. Remember you brain hasnt made it's own opiates for a very long time and has forgot how. But, it does fix itself. Yes you will regain normal pain sensitivity. How long depends on a lot of things, like were you in pain before mmt?

Long term damage? I was on mmt for just over 8 yrs, detoxed in my 50's and happy to say, I have Absolutely NO damage. At you age, you should bounce bad a tad quicker.

Run you nailed it when you said it made you feel yummy. I think between pain pills, sub and methadone, methadone wins hands down, for coming the closest to mimicking a heroin high/true nod. Just like with sub, the trick is to get off a quickly as possible. Unfortunately few of us do, because these damn clinics and doctors are in it for the money.


... like. Big time.

SUPER good info here. I don't give a shit what you're jumping from.. these are the words to heed.

Happy 4th, D.O.M.M.. rock this shit. :smart:
Eternally... free from nothing.
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Re: HELP

Postby cheeps » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:10 pm

Dear Domm....you will eventually get your life back.....I took Lyrica, Lexipro, Clonidine, Flexiril, Baclofen, Lorzapam, Requip, Imodium & Valium while I detoxed (and two nights of thorazine during the 'kick'). Day times were ok during acute detox...nights, I'd load up on my meds, put on slow relaxing classical music, and hope for the best. I actually did pretty good. Epsom salt baths are good. Icy hot sleeves help.

Concerns and need for comfort meds are a rise in BP, sore & restless legs and arms, anxiety, nausea, and the shits. Everyone is different however...I never puked...just couldn't eat.

Do you have someone living with you? Please make sure you write down all meds you take and the times you take them. When a person feels crappy....it's hard to remember when you take something, so keep a log.

I'm so sorry you are going thru this shit but you are doing GREAT!!! I was on meth for ten years for pain management but at a very low dose compared to MMT peeps.


Get your ducks in a row before you jump.....lots of nanas, plain oatmeal, rice, good protein like eggs....whatever you can tolerate....eat it. sugar is ok but be careful not to drink caffeine...it makes you jittery as fuck. LOTS of pure water like syd said.

Pain levels do go up....but they come down and stabilize....don't worry....you will be all right....it's a process that you must go thru.....a process you can do. We are here if you need us....do you know how to PM on this board?

Oh....how'd you find us? :shrug:

How often are you taking the meds you have?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: HELP

Postby D.O.M.M. » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:03 pm

I found Subsux while researching subs as a way to get off Methadone. After hearing all the stories from people on Subs I realized it was just another version of the same crap. Thanks to this site I decided to just taper. I take all my Meds at night in an attempt to fall asleep but it just isn't working. You were right about saving the comfort meds for the final jump as my body is use to them now and they don't work like they did a couple of months of ago. Big Mistake. Honestly, I don't know what my injuries truly are or what is withdrawal related. My shoulders, knees, and back really hurt and my joints pop and crack. I do have a winged scapula from a sports injury but I don't know how serious it truly is because it only mildly hurt before WD's but know it's killing me. I have heard that people often discover injuries that were masked while on opiates and discovered after detox. The worst part at this point is the relentless insomnia. It's like my brain forgot how to fall asleep. I just lie there kicking my legs and tossing and turning all night. I am on day four with NO SLEEP and after about five days I start to feel psychotic. I will look into the seroquel. I became depressed and suicidal when i lost my fiancee. Her final words to me were "you can't have a wife" "you are already married to Methadone". I was in my 20's when I entered MMT after four years of heroin and blindly bought into the delusion that I was recovering and under the care of medical professionals. I feel like the worlds biggest sucker now and decided 6 months ago after my beautiful niece was born that it was going to be detox or death. I just can't live this way anymore. It doesn't happen overnight but overtime this drug destroys your mind, body, and soul. With the exception of people truly sufferring/dying from chronic pain conditions I believe this drug should be outlawed. It takes addiction and injects it with steroids. As soon as my body finds a way to get some sleep I will make the jump. Honestly, I am scared to death. Thanks for all the encouragement and know I don't know how to PM.
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Re: HELP

Postby syd » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:35 pm

How long have you been at 5mg?
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Re: HELP

Postby cheeps » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:16 pm

OK....at the top left...under the blue blob picture (What is that fucking thing anyway...Ratch?) :? :wtf: that sez Subsux.com, you will see user control panel. Right next to it...TA DA... (0 new messages). This is where you click to find out if someone sent you a message! After you get in there to your PM's (private messages) it's much like an email program. The number will change depending on how many new messages you have...it will say (1new message) when i send one. If it says 2 or 3 messages, then several of these crazy peeps on here want to talk with you. If it says 4-20 messages, somebody thinks you are loaded and will try to talk you out of your hard earned money. :P :lol: Okok....just kidding.

It is entirely private though...no way for nosy fuckers to look in there except the person you are messaging. Now...they could conceivably forward your PM to someone but we don't usually do that...most everything here is anonymous and we get real pissed if peeps decide to start drama. We don't like drama....we try to stay stress free.

So....I'm going to send you a message and I want you to reply back to it so you can figure it out. Quite often when someone jumps...we use this method of inquiry to see how you are doing. I have mine set up to email my phone when I get a PM. It take a few minutes to show up, but it's helpful. That way if you have instant questions....PMing works well instead of putting it in a thread and waiting for us to look. We work (or pretend to) :mrgreen: so it's a good way to alert someone when you need some answers.
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Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: HELP

Postby Not a 12 stepper » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:13 pm

Syd is wondering if your really "stable" at 5mg...

It takes 2 weeks for the full effects to really hit you after a drop in dose.

You might try split dosing 3mg every 12 hours, if you haven't been at 5mg for very long and aren't ready to jump.



Are you weighing your doses on a milligram scale?

Accuracy is key, when dealing with such small doses, and trying to stay comfortable on a methadone taper.
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Re: HELP

Postby Not a 12 stepper » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:23 pm

D.O.M.M. wrote:Thanks for the responses. My reasons for the fast taper is I truly believe Methadone is destroying my body. around year 10 my bones began to ache and I started to get that (hunchback) posture that I see in the people who have been on MMT for years and years. It was a huge wakeup call but for 98 percent of the people out here MMT is a life sentence. I was planning on committing suicide until my niece was born 6 months ago and i felt like I owed it to her and myself to try. My clinic refused to detox me. I am from Chicago and the clinics out here are pure evil. They said if I wanted to reduce my dosage it would have to be at a rate of 2mgs a week with periodic holds and that my take home status would be revoked. It was a total manipulation. So I began dropping on my own and saving the extra. I guess in hindsight I wanted to punish myself to for destroying my soul and not being strong enough to do this years ago. I am 36 years old and was very active and healthy looking up until about two years ago when I realized I was losing bone mass. I want my health back and I couldn't bare to spend several more years poisoning myself every day.

To answer your questions; I have klonopin, neurontin,clonidine, and cymbalta. They helped alot until I got down around 30 mgs. That is when my symptoms really took off.

Question: why should i ditch the antidepressant?

Question: Have you guys regained normal pain sensetivity and if so after how long?

Question: What is the long term damage?


Thanks for your quick replies and MUCH RESPECT to those that have gotten off this crap and made it. I have never met anyone that beat methadone after 7 or more years of MMT I never expected to make it this far. Thanks for the support.

D.O.M.M. (dying on methadone maintenance)


I'm not a fan personally, of anti-depressants, but always hesitate to advise anyone to stop taking them. While in my personal situation I fare much better without them, everyone's mental state is different, and ultimately it's a choice you need to make for yourself-

Pain sensitivity is a big problem when detoxing. I was in a serious accident, and realized that I needed more surgery after I finally got off the methadone. I think everyone has back pain, and general aches and pains when detoxing, and they usually go away 6-8 weeks after jumping.


If your a male, the long term damage can come in the form of low testosterone. Google methadone and testosterone, and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about.
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Re: HELP

Postby syd » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:50 pm

Not a 12 stepper wrote:Syd is wondering if your really "stable" at 5mg...

It takes 2 weeks for the full effects to really hit you after a drop in dose.

You might try split dosing 3mg every 12 hours, if you haven't been at 5mg for very long and aren't ready to jump.



Are you weighing your doses on a milligram scale?

Accuracy is key, when dealing with such small doses, and trying to stay comfortable on a methadone taper.



Exactly NotA.

DOMM, I was trying to determine how long before you will be able to sleep by seeing how long you have been at 5.
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Re: HELP

Postby D.O.M.M. » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:10 pm

Hell no, I am not stable at 5 milligrams. I haven't been able to stabilize since I got below 30. although it keeps getting worse. i pushed on because I am unable to work during this process and I can't bear to face this in the Chicago winter. I have been at 5mgs for 9 days and have just started only getting about 3 hours of shitty restless sleep a day (or night depending on when it comes) and getting there is a journey (try to read/ watch tv/ take hot baths ect..) I do have a scale but it is kind of cheap and has a small margin of error when weighing mgs. i have been breaking up my tabs into 10 mg segments then crushing those into powder and filling capsules into two equal parts as best i can.
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Re: HELP

Postby Not a 12 stepper » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:32 pm

It's a personal choice, of course...

But you are making yourself suffer more than necessary-

If you have some cash, and a stash, then I'd buy a decent milligram scale, and go up to 6mg (3mg twice a day) for 2 weeks, or even up to 8mg, 4mg twice a day... Until your not in withdrawal so bad, then taper down over time.

I say this, only because you tell us your suffering some very painful withdrawal, and you can avoid most of that with a slow taper.

The insomnia and restless legs are pretty much standard, minor annoyances. The real problem is they last for an incredibly long time, for most people.

On the other hand, you already have 9 opiate free days, and that's a pretty good start...

That means after another 10 days, you should start to feel a little better- Then it'll be time to buckle in for another 6 weeks or so, of ups and downs :thumbup:

Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

Next month, It'll be 7 years of running, for me :mrgreen:
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Re: HELP

Postby cheeps » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:25 pm

I have been at 5mgs for 9 days



He's still at 5mgs.

Mark, I'm glad you suggested going back up....I was waiting to see if you or Syd thought this may be a good idea. DOMM doesn't want to be in w/d's during the winter time because of living in Illinois.

DOMM...anytime you taper sub or methadone, a 20% cut every two weeks is the norm. I think it is best for you to go up and then go down gradually. I know you want off ASAP but you are fast nearing the point where you either jump or adjust your dose to be more comfortable.

when do you have to go back to work?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: HELP

Postby D.O.M.M. » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:12 pm

I want to try to ride this out and stay at 5 mil. I got some Seroquel and prazosin today and i want to see if they help. Also because I dropped out of the clinic I am no longer a legal drug addict and will fail if drug tested which my organization could ask for. I am doing a little better with the burning and bone pain. I feel nauseous though from all the Meds. I am starting to feel like i am trading addictions once again. Instead of methadone now I am on 6 other Rx's which was not the point of all this. I know i didn't handle this well. I was expecting something like heroin WD's but this has been MUCH worse at least for me. I have to meet with HR in 3 weeks to discuss where I am at. I fear i will lose my Job not long after that if I cannot return.

Could we please move these discussions to the PM board. I am very grateful to all of you for your help and support but I am starting to feel like a freakshow. like parents are looking at these posts with there kids to scare them away from drugs.
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