Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Feel free to read or create a new topic about benzodiazepine questions or detox. (*Note - Benzodiazepines are not opiates. They are Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, and many more. Additionally, cessation of benzos without medical supervision can be very dangerous.)

Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby ThirdEye » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:20 am

Hi Melissa.
Thanks for sharing! And I totally agree. As much as subs suck benzos suck more. If I could do it over again I would taper the benzo first and then the sub. As it was I did a benzo taper concurrently and after a sub taper. I took my last half mg dose of Valium back in September 2013 and I am still suffering badly from cog fog, head pressure and crushing anhedonia. I'm sure some of the depression is sub-related but my gut tells me that the worst of it is from the benzos. Sucks!
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:02 am

I don't have any personal knowledge of benzos...never liked them, but what I had heard in the past was people suggest tapering the subs first and the benzos last, to help deal with sub WD. What I've come to hear from knowledgeable people here is, by the time your tapering off benzos they don't help deal with anything. Their therapeutic use is long gone. But it just sounds more rational to a lay person to taper the subs first. The gold standard of comfort meds seems to be a couple weeks on benzos, but I guess that only works if your benzo naïve?

Hi 3rd Eye! I'm sorry to hear that your still struggling. I'm not surprised though..coming off benzos and opiates is brutal. I'm almost a yr off sub and my motivation and sleep still waiver greatly. I use Benadryl most nights to help sleep.
It least the spring is on it's way! We had one of the most mild winters on record this yr. No snow or ice. I didn't even get my down parka out of the closet this winter.
Ok...feel better my friend....
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:26 am

So true Mel, I'd bet most of the people on this board have a better understanding how sub works than most sub Drs.
I'm lucky I was never prescribed benzos by any of my Shrinks. I would have probably just taken them without question. I guess the fact I already had a opiate addiction kinda prevented doctors from prescribing benzos. The few times I've taken them I just fell asleep...no fun in that:)
I really respect you people who have fought both opiate and benzo addiction....sheesh, opiate detox was bad enough, I can't even imagine the added head fuck of benzos!
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby wastedtime » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:24 pm

Melissa, If You need to taper the benzos,valium is a better one to taper off of.They are easier to taper and knoweldeable drs know that.If you have a good dr that you can talk to and be honest with ask for valium instead.There is quite a bit of research supporting this.How long have you been back on Xanax and at what dose?
As someone who has been totally addicted to Xanax,i truly believe they can make anxiety and depression worse,especially when you have to keep upping your dose so much to just feel them a little bit.
Last edited by wastedtime on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby StuckOnSub » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:20 pm

Honestly, I think that the only real medical value to benzos are - 1) given at a hospital (or 1 time use at home) for a very bad/acute panic attack. And 2) used for 1-2 weeks max for opiate withdrawal (in those without prior benzo addictions).

I actually used Xanax back in the day to kick pain pills. That was the Only comfort med I used and it was a godsend at the time.

I definitely know what you mean when you say they can make trying to kick harder/worse, but I think that applies more to those of us who have been or are benzo dependent... Once your body gets thrown out of whack by benzos, it is almost impossible to balance out again, and with how slowly my body has been recovering from the benzo w/d, it would probably be many Years before I could safely take even 1 benzo without throwing my body into chaos (not that I Ever plan on testing that theory anyway!).
Now that I have come out the other side of benzo w/d, I just could not imagine trying to use them again. I would be scared sh*tless of rekindling my benzo w/d...
Also, I totally agree with you about kicking the benzos first, then opiates.

Btw Melissa - I had a seizure from benzo use in the past and I was able to go cold turkey off many years of daily use without having any seizures. My doctor gave me 2 weeks of phenobarbital to keep me from having a seizure, but to be totally honest I only took it once because it just made my head & the dizziness even worse.
Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. Seeing as you've only been on them for what, 6 weeks? I think that you'd be fine to get off them quick. You could always try skipping a few days and see if there is even much of any w/d. It may be pretty mild at this point. I would almost think that tapering off slowly would possibly make your body even more dependent (and cause the w/d to be worse). Since you've only been on them like a month & 1/2... If you have to stay on them another few months in order to taper, that is how many extra months of you body becoming dependent on them again. I would honestly think that it would be better to get off them quick, before your body truly becomes dependent on them again... Do you know what I'm trying to say? I feel like I am not explaining my thought very well... Damn benzo fried brain lol.

Oh, and ThirdEye, good to hear from you man!
Sorry you are still suffering. I'm on month 7 and this month has really been the turning point for me (and I actually mean that this time! I know I've said it in the past and ended up just getting slammed a few days later).
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby wastedtime » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:09 am

Duh! My own benzo fried brain missed the fact that you have only been taking the Xanax a few weeks this time.I agree with everything stuckonsub said.You should be able to taper off quickly with no problems.Damn benzos will really mess with your memory and intellect!
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby xenofears » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:47 am

Glad to hear you made it off Thirdeye. I'm nearly 2 1/2 years off benzos and 4 1/2 years off opiates, and I am still not the same, my nervous system still feels overactive. But, being on heavy cocktails of drugs for 10 years, you wouldn't expect me to be "the same". Though, I am doing quite well, very good actually, I feel ok most of the time, I have a great job, a wonderful wife, a home, all since becoming drug free, and do expect within a few years I should get back to 100% again. And instead of the same, I will be much better, as my thinking has totally changed to be able to look towards consequences and long-term goals now, I have more motivation, and my desire to use anything is absolutely zero. I see the junkies standing out in the street by the methadone clinic on my way to work all the time and they give me the creeps big time.

It all sucks... there's was no easy way out of that mess. The only thing I can say with 100% certainty is trying to cover up one drug's w/d with the other just made things so much worse.
Sub free 3 years. Klonopin free 1 year. 100% drug free. Feeling somewhat ok. :thumbup:
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby StuckOnSub » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:06 am

Hey melissagirl, how are you feeling? Are you still off the benzos? How are you doing on the sub? Don't be scared! I was stuck at 1-2mg for a while during my benzo withdrawal. But now that I am feeling better from the benzo w/d, the sub taper has been much easier than before... Still plenty difficult but definitely do-able.
I am now down to .5mg per day and I am still sleeping ok for the most part. Honestly, I truly believe that this is only as hard as we make it on ourselves mentally...
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Sub and benzos...maybe this can help someone?

Postby ExitWounds » Wed May 28, 2014 9:29 pm

Melissa, life really sucked for me on Xanax and subs. But I will say the anxiety and those fuckimg thoughts that went through my head after not having Xanax, I would detox off subs twice over that shit. Now, I still felt half empty on just subs but it took a good deal of time for the anxiety to go away, I'm not sure if subs made that worse or what. The good news is if you buckle down and get through this, you in fact are going to feel a lot better. Now, the best way I can describe it is, you feel worse and better. You can think very clearly, you begin to enjoy things you didn't enjoy anymore, even while parts of you are gonna ache and life is gonna feel like a hassle and you are gonna feel fatigue and useless and you are gonna think you are less a person than you were while on opiates.

The good news is that shit will pass too, it all passes, you are never gonna feel like the life of the party by yourself like you did on oxy or whatever, but you are going to start thinking about new ways to enjoy life, new stuff will begin to matter again. I wish you all the luck and the best, the fears and anxiety you have are normal, but probably still intensified, keep your eyes on accomplishing this for yourself, you must love yourself enough to achieve this and you will thank yourself for it.
Because easy has no meaning.
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