My Klonopin taper thread

Feel free to read or create a new topic about benzodiazepine questions or detox. (*Note - Benzodiazepines are not opiates. They are Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, and many more. Additionally, cessation of benzos without medical supervision can be very dangerous.)

My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:49 am

I can't do this on the benzo detox boards as they are filled with protracted benzo w/d cases where people are utterly debilitated for years and it is horrible and will only cause anxiety, you think Sub w/d is bad take a visit to one. I don't really need the help either.. just want to share this I guess, and/or keep a journal for myself.

I can't be debilitated anymore. I've been feeling inhuman for like a year and am finally feeling worlds and worlds better. So I can't fuck this up.

History:

10+ years on Sub & Klonopin. Jumped the Sub 12/27/09. Experienced the absolute worst case situation for the first time since using drugs (1+ year of feeling absolutely miserable).. great timing, a nice bite in the ass goodbye. Was also on amitriptyline, a tricyclic antidepressant and potent anti-cholinergic (used as knock-out drops) for about 2 years and dropped that at some point during fairly early (2 months?) Sub w/d. Only on these 3 damn drugs to deal with now long-over opiate use, don't need any of them. Only one left and it's a nagging pain in my ass reminder! Tried to cut it out the hard way twice and failed, it was dangerous (in regards to giving me a protracted w/d syndrome) and just didn't get better.

I'm on 1mg/day of Klonopin now.. no other drugs, no other supplements, nada. 1mg/day of clonazepam is about 20mg/day of Valium and quite low for the chronic/long-term use department, and produces almost no agonist effects on daily dosing (i.e. the drug ONLY produces (very minor) w/d symptoms.) So it's nothing more than a pain in the ass.

Dose of Klonopin when jumping Sub: ~4mg/day (I could play with the dose and skip days with ease while on Sub, things changed so dramatically when I jumped.)
Dose went through the roof, up to as high as 8mg/day at one point. Added Ativan for about a month, the first month.

Tried to cold-turkey about 5 months ago from a tapered dose of 3mg/day. Was utterly debilitated with almost every symptom in the book (it felt like coming down from a horrible acid trip) for almost a month before giving up, after having one of those panic attacks where you are utterly unable to move and fear for death.

Reinstated on 1mg/day.. took about a month to fully stabilize and for symptoms to dissipate.

Stayed on that dose of 1mg/day since, the past 5 or so months. Dosing 1x/day without interdose withdrawal until just before the next dose. Interdose withdrawal presents as shakiness, restlessness, inability to concentrate. Not a big deal as it is extremely brief and just an annoying reminder to take my pill.

Remaining Sub symptoms after 14 bloody months: Occasional Runny nose / sneezing fits (about 1x/day), minor lethargy.

Benzo symptoms (pre-taper): Anxiety attacks (minor), restlessness (minor), skin burning/electric sensations (very minor but I am terrified of the full-force of this returning), very poor sleep quality, occasional insomnia, the total inability to sleep past ~8am, wakeup terror (I don't really know how to explain this one, but it sucks, but very quickly disappears after getting out of bed.)

Ok.. so, TODAY, I am taking my 1mg of Klonopin and cutting it to 7/8 or 0.875mg using whole milk and measuring cups for the time being as I don't have an oral syringe, got to pick one up, but that's close enough for now. No desire to switch to Valium as Klonopin is plenty long-acting, doesn't have 3+ metabolites to make things messy, and using milk (or even just water for clonazepam) can be accurately measured to any dose so tablet size doesn't matter.

So.. day 1, cut 1.. 1/8 reduction of 1mg to 0.875mg 1x/day. This is a "large" drop believe it or not and should be held about 14 days even if it doesn't cause any problems (I don't expect any, we'll see.)
Last edited by xenofears on Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sub free 3 years. Klonopin free 1 year. 100% drug free. Feeling somewhat ok. :thumbup:
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm

Day 1 update/correction - Took 1mg, I think, I hope, as I was extremely dubious about my milk concoction. That was harder that I thought -- you can't see if the pill's dissolved in the white milk, the jar wasn't big enough and I used more milk than I thought, and pouring it out into a measuring cup was difficult at best. I need an oral syringe.
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:23 pm

Are you doing this as we speak?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
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Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby celticpride4Life » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:25 pm

This is a great idea Xeno and I'm pulling for you. Because of your advice and warning I jumped the hell off the Ativan and Valium. Keeping this record will no doubt help many.

~CelticPride
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:36 pm

What Cheeps? Yes this is current.

Thanks CP..
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby cheeps » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:48 pm

I'm impressed that you keep trying....sometimes I get so confounded and impatient about my AD.

Anxiety SUX!!

I love Pete!! :wiggle: :banana: :blowme:
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby gillabug » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:54 pm

Sorry I just saw this thread.. Sounds like you have a grip on the sitch Pete.. Vistaril, sp?, really helped me tons when I detoxed from xanax. Maybe you could use a low, low dose after the jump for a few weeks? And I would also think trusty ole clonodine would help too! Best of luck.. Benzo's are evil!
Never make anyone a priority when all you are to them is an option...

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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:14 pm

The way it works is you taper so slowly you don't have any acute symptoms unless something goes wrong. So no meds necessary, and herbs don't do shit for me. I really just need help with the damn sleep quality thing, I think maybe I should see a sleep specialist and see if there is anything that can help with deep sleep but not leave me hung over / sedated the next day and isn't addictive or GABAergic in any way.

Haven't been able to do the cuts yet as I failed without an oral syringe and now I'm out of milk. Tomorrow will be day 1. This is SUCH a pain in the ass, and yes I am so confounded and impatient, but I don't really have a choice, I have to get off this shit.
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:04 pm

FINALLY, I made my first cut today.. I hope! Making a milk solution and measuring it and everything is harder than I thought. Pills did not fully dissolve without prodding.

So, DAY 1 -- 03/12/2011 - 8/10ths of a mg (0.8mg)
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Postby 10lives » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:58 pm

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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:55 am

10lives wrote:Hey xeno,
Klonopin is for epileptics to control seizures...Do you have epileptic fits?
Why don't you switch to valium ?
Valium is for anxiety disorders and control muscle spasms.
Or xanax?Which is for anxiety and panic disorder.

I'd think valium would be an easier taper, as klonopin is longer acting
From xeno
No desire to switch to Valium as Klonopin is plenty long-acting
, and 1mg klono to 20mg valium,you know ffs.Start off on 5-10mg and increase/decrease to affective level and only take to aleviate onset of symptoms,then taper.

Imo,medication in relation to anxiety disorders should be used to aleviate onset of symptoms and just enough so that you are open to learning ways of changing thought patterns and learning coping strategies.Medication and tapering is only 1 line of defence.
Good luck!
Ps.I have taken 32-48mg's klono with 200mils of methadone and have abused every other benzo.
I compare valium to heroin(short half life) and klono to methadone/sub due to there long acting half life.
E=mc²


Woah, 10lives, you have no idea what you are talking about at all, please don't advise anyone on benzo tapers! I don't even know where to start on this post.
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:22 am

10lives wrote:Hey xeno,
Klonopin is for epileptics to control seizures...Do you have epileptic fits?
Why don't you switch to valium ?
Valium is for anxiety disorders and control muscle spasms.
Or xanax?Which is for anxiety and panic disorder.


When we're talking about withdrawal, they are all the same, the only differences come down to their half-lives and onset of action. Yes, Klonopin was first made for seizures, Valium is touted for muscle spasms, Xanax is used for panic disorders (mainly for it's rapid onset of action,) but in the end they are all almost exactly the same shit, and they are all prescribed for everything (well not epilepsy, only the long half-lives, but benzos aren't really used for epilepsy at all anymore.)

I'd think valium would be an easier taper, as klonopin is longer acting


First of all, Valium has a longer half-life, along with like 3 metabolites we're talking 200 hours. Klonopin's half-life is about 35 hours. Second, you WANT a long half-life. It's extroadinarily difficult and messy to taper a short-acting benzo.

Valium seems to have a worsened depression side-effect among others compared to Klonopin. Also, I personally find the idea of having several active metabolites flooding my system not a good thing. Klonopin is as straight-forward as it gets when tapering benzos.

The only thing with Klonopin is to taper properly to the lower dosages and do it accurately even at the somewhat higher ones a liquid solution must be made.

From xeno
No desire to switch to Valium as Klonopin is plenty long-acting
, and 1mg klono to 20mg valium,you know ffs.Start off on 5-10mg and increase/decrease to affective level and only take to aleviate onset of symptoms,then taper.


What in the world are you basing this advise on? There is already giant pools of wisdom and scientific information on benzo w/d and benzo tapering due to how much of a mess it is, your conjecture isn't necessary or valuable. First of all, you can't even do a switchover to another long-acting benzo without a crossover period as the equivalent dosages aren't actually equivalent until the new benzo has time to build up in your system over a week+. So it's done gradually. And can be messy.

Imo,medication in relation to anxiety disorders should be used to aleviate onset of symptoms and just enough so that you are open to learning ways of changing thought patterns and learning coping strategies.Medication and tapering is only 1 line of defence.


You really don't understand anything about long-term benzo use. No dose is going to alleviate any anxiety symptoms. I'm not taking it to alleviate anything except some -- but not all at this point -- of the chronic w/d it causes.

Ps.I have taken 32-48mg's klono with 200mils of methadone and have abused every other benzo.


You'd likely be dead.
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Postby 10lives » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:05 pm

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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:24 pm

10lives wrote:Don't read into things too much xeno as reading up on scientific information,metabolites,withdrawals etc doesn't do you any good.
Read less,feel more IE:experiment and see what works.


This is the only thing I'll respond to in your asinine post. Benzo addiction/physical dependence is a very, very serious problem. You go about getting off them wrong, and you could wind up in worlds of hurt. Both from withdrawals, and from PROTRACTED withdrawals that don't go away for years! "Experimenting" after ten years on benzos is a recipe for disaster. This advice is DANGEROUS.

There are BOOKS written on the subject by experts who have seen thousands of patients through benzo w/d. I suggest you read a little on the subject before opening you mouth.

No dose is going to alleviate any anxiety symptoms?Your kidding right?


Obviously, you know nothing about c/t benzos and failed c/t attempts. Reinstatement does not even fully allieviate w/d. Once you've developed protracted benzo w/d, you are fucked.

Get out of my taper/jump thread.
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Postby 10lives » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:52 pm

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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby Not a 12 stepper » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:32 pm

xenofears wrote:FINALLY, I made my first cut today.. I hope! Making a milk solution and measuring it and everything is harder than I thought. Pills did not fully dissolve without prodding.

So, DAY 1 -- 03/12/2011 - 8/10ths of a mg (0.8mg)



Congrats on getting your taper started Pete.

I wonder if you warmed up the milk a little, if it'd help dissolve the pills?

Are you using a pill crusher?
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:23 pm

<Deleted Post -- Don't want to muddy up my taper thread with a war with 10lives who is long gone.>

But, basically, benzo w/d is something that requires thorough research and planning whether it makes your symptoms worse or not, the chances of you getting yourself into worlds and worlds of trouble is way too high, and a lot of the symptoms are extremely disturbing and you really need reassurance that they are normal as well.
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby xenofears » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:26 pm

Not a 12 stepper wrote:
xenofears wrote:FINALLY, I made my first cut today.. I hope! Making a milk solution and measuring it and everything is harder than I thought. Pills did not fully dissolve without prodding.

So, DAY 1 -- 03/12/2011 - 8/10ths of a mg (0.8mg)



Congrats on getting your taper started Pete.

I wonder if you warmed up the milk a little, if it'd help dissolve the pills?

Are you using a pill crusher?


Thanks Mark! Maybe, maybe not.. what I need really is to get something small and really airtight - I was hoping to get one of those bottles they dispense cough syrup in at a pharmacy but they claimed to be "out of them"... and just shake it like mad.. I think that'd do the trick.

Crushing the pills isn't a good idea.. it's quite a bit messy when such small losses equate out to a lot.. They dissolve, just need a little prodding...
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby 620tcat » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:53 pm

Deleted post. 10lives has been regulated to the WZ.
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Re: My Klonopin taper thread

Postby 620tcat » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:12 pm

xenofears wrote:Day 1 update/correction - Took 1mg, I think, I hope, as I was extremely dubious about my milk concoction. That was harder that I thought -- you can't see if the pill's dissolved in the white milk, the jar wasn't big enough and I used more milk than I thought, and pouring it out into a measuring cup was difficult at best. I need an oral syringe.


I never could master water titration. I resorted to the little piles. Props for giving this a go. I used a little visteral ?sp but I have never liked the "hangover" feeling that antihistamines gave me. I used phenobarbital some after the jump but kept thinking about Janis Joplin and shied away from that stuff too. I used phenal for maybe 3 - 4 days after the jump. I wish you well dude, you sound like you have done your homework, reason I haven't posted til now.

PM me if you ever need anything.
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