Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Feel free to read or create a new topic about benzodiazepine questions or detox. (*Note - Benzodiazepines are not opiates. They are Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, and many more. Additionally, cessation of benzos without medical supervision can be very dangerous.)

Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:10 pm

Honestly, I don't know exactly how many sub I have left. I have a family member holding them for me. I'd have to ask them. I know they said that I am getting low. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe a months worth at my current dose.

And no, I definitely do not feel stable at .5mg. I have been down to 1mg and less in the past and can never seem to stabilize on those doses. I've been at .5mg for at least a few weeks now and it is still a daily battle. It's a fight to stay at this dose...

My main problem is that damn restlessness and skin crawling feeling. I push the time I take my dose every day until I feel like I can't stand that restlessness any more. I know I have to learn how to fight through it but damn is it hard!
That is why I will almost kind of be happy once I just run out of sub. Then I will have no choice. Hopefully that will make the mental part easier...

I found some old tizanidine (muscle relaxer). I know it can be helpful during detox. But it expired like 10 years ago, so I'm a little nervous about trying to take it.
I also have some benzos put away with that same family member. But I am absolutely scared sh*tless to use them! I know they work to take care of the restlessness, but I don't think that I could survive another benzo w/d, so I just refuse to use them.
You say that neurontin really helped you with that creepy crawly stuff?
Or what about that kratom? What if I used that very sparingly for like a week? I've never tried it before (and I'd have to order it from somewhere).

The thing that also seems to mess me up are the damn Suboxone strips... Some days I take my .5mg dose and it really helps take away my w/d symptoms. Other days I take it and it doesn't seem to help at all, sometimes it seems to almost make things worse... The only thing I can figure is that reckitt says not to cut the strips at all and that the dose may not be evenly distributed through out the whole strip. So maybe some days I am getting a bigger dose of bupe than others...? Oh well, it is what it is.

Sorry, just venting a bit. I know I can do this. And i Know I can do it without needing anything as a crutch. Sometimes it's easy to get carried away with that - "oh I can't do this without some help from this or that" type of mind frame.
Anyway, I'll get there one way or another (either by taper or by running out)
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby CTCheryl » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:58 am

I'm glad Jules asked you to do this, because I have to be honest, I've been a tad confused over all of the "expert" advice you give on this forum about tapering off sub, yet, you never say a word about your own sub sukking. I don't understand why it's taken you this long to finally talk about it. You've been a member here since last June?

So, what's up with that?
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:43 am

Do you even read? So you really think this is the first time i talked about my sub use. nevermind my entire thread titled "been on sub 9+ years and benzos for a decade. weening off".
I talk about my sub use All The Time! I'm not trying to hide the fact the I am still taking sub. Sorry I haven't been able to get off fast enough for you... But I just couldn't handle benzo w/d and sub w/d at the same time.

I've been on and off sub for 10 years. I think that qualifies me to answer some basic questions about sub and the w/d process.
I didn't know that it was looked down upon to try and answer questions...

I guess I'll leave the answering questions up to the true experts like you, huh Cheryl...?

(Oh and where is your tag line by the way?)
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby CTCheryl » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:16 pm

Because I am a moderator (which if you looked at when I joined here, like I did you, then you might know where my "tag" line is, asswipe) I won't violate what this forum is for out here.

You act like you are such an authority here and you haven't even experienced what you keep giving your great advice about. Just don't give out such blanket advice, like you've been there done that anymore and we will be cool. If not, start a thread, we'll talk it out more. I'd be happy to.
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:25 pm

Ok, so even though we are posting on a thread I started right now, I have to watch what I say...?

Honestly, I didn't mean to sound like an authority. I didn't know I came off that way. I have been through sub w/d many times in the past just FYI. (As well as H w/d, SAO w/d's, benzo w/d and every street drug you can think of)

I'm done though. I thought this site was here to try and help. I see lots of members giving the same advise as me, and I don't consider anyone here to be an "expert". So what makes someone an expert anyway?
10 years on and off sub is obviously not enough in your eyes to give out my opinion. So what qualifies someone to give out info here?

(Edit: my bad. I should have never even let that post get to me).
Last edited by StuckOnSub on Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby mynameisDAN82 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:51 pm

:shrug: Personally, I think your posts are always thoughtful and informative. You put a lot of effort into helping others, I'd hate to see you leave.
Sub free since 10-20-2012
Like most things in life the hardest part is starting, the easy part is wanting.
"Life gets hard.. Then it gets good, just like I always knew it would"
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby Justjules13 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:16 pm

I agree...don't leave.
Getting off benzos is amazing. From what I've heard it's a nightmare...
I took three yrs getting off opiates, so just keep moving in the right direction...
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:02 pm

Thanks Jules and Dan. I'm probably just overreacting here... I've been like super edgy and short tempered the past couple of days. I think maybe it's the quitting cigs that has me so on edge.

Thanks again guys I appreciate it.

(Also, I know I probably get a little over-passionate about certain subjects. I think it's cause my emotions are still a bit of a roller coaster from that benzo w/d. My body is still all sorts of messed up from that stuff. It has been a life changing experience that I am still trying to fully come to terms with and my brain is still pretty scrambled too (aka "benzo brain").
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby CTCheryl » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:48 am

Oh, don't go taking your toys and running away now, not over this anyway. I made my point, you made yours.
Grow up a little, lick your wounds and move on.
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:20 pm

Question for anyone who can answer - it seems like my body is having a hard time regulating its temperature or something like that... I am having a h*ll of a time dealing with the heat. It's like my entire body starts sweating like crazy, even just standing still.
I don't know if its from the benzo w/d still, or the sub taper or what... It definitely does not seem normal though. I've never had this problem before. I've never sweat this much in my life! I used to be really sensitive to the cold, but I think that maybe had more to do with how much weight I lost while using because now that I've put back on some weight I didn't seem to have that problem this past winter...

Anyone else deal with this before?
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby OhmsLaw » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:49 am

I didn't really experience any thing like that..I only sweated profusely while on sub..now that I'm 30+ days off, I'm pretty much back to normal sweating.

Stick around man..benzo heads can learn a lot from you.

Peace
Ohms
Sub free since 5-11-14 (daily use) I slipped up a few times :(
2/?/15 to 4/20/15 back to regular opiate use (whatever was around)
Your symptoms sounds just like what it does when it's not doing what it should because of how it is in the brain parts
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:24 pm

How you doing with the benzos ohms?
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:16 pm

Oh man, today I was doing some work outside (I do all sorts of random work at my job) and it is pretty hot out there today. I ended up having to stop home on my lunch break (right now) and shower. But this is the weird part - I was literally still dripping sweat in the shower! Like I was just sweating profusely while I was in the shower. I have never sweat in the shower before... I had to wash up like 4 times! And I couldn't even have the water Luke warm cause it would make me start sweating again. It had to be ice cold.
It seems like ever since I started that benzo w/d my body has had a hell of a time regulating its temperature. It's so strange. I just hope that in time this will go away because its actually pretty embarrassing. It kind of keeps me from doing certain activities too because I don't want to be around people while swearing so profusely like that. With my job I have no choice, but at least my boss is super cool. He used to be a pretty heavy drug user, so I think he understands more than most.
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:02 am

Well, I just figured that I'd leave this post updated. I didn't feel like trying to dig up my thread in the subsux forum, so ill just post this here.

I am currently clean off Everything! Yay! It has been just over 1 month clean from the sub now. I went off at roughly 1mg. I had tapered to .5 or so but just couldn't hold there and ended up going back up to about 2mg.
Then I finally said enough is enough and I skipped 2 days. Then after skipping the 2 days I took .5mg for one day. Then from there I just quit.
The w/d surprisingly was not that bad. Everyone was so right who said the fear of sub w/d was worse the the actual sub w/d. And I did not even use any type of comfort meds. Only some ibuprofen and a little night time cold medicine a few nights to try and sleep. The worst was over for me after about 2-1/2 to 3 weeks (about 15 days to be exact).

So now it's been over a month clean and I can safely say that I am NEVER going back. I disposed of my leftover subs (not down the toilet, given to the pharmacy to dispose of properly).

Anyway I just wanted to leave this updated. I just do not feel the same about posting and giving out advise on this site anymore, ever since the one moderator here (wont name names) basically told me to not give out my advise anymore...

Good luck to everyone battling their drug addictions. I wish you all success! If I got off the sub after OVER 10 YEARS, you can so it too! Oh and don't worry about that PAWS bs. It's only been just over a month for me but I am doing fine. Things are getting better as each day passes. Maybe PAWS will hit worse down the road but I am just so happy to be clean I just don't care or focus on it.
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby OhmsLaw » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:05 am

awesome to hear SOS..you've been thru the ringer between the benzo and sub detox...great job..wishing you the best. :shred:

Peace
Ohms
Sub free since 5-11-14 (daily use) I slipped up a few times :(
2/?/15 to 4/20/15 back to regular opiate use (whatever was around)
Your symptoms sounds just like what it does when it's not doing what it should because of how it is in the brain parts
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby cheeps » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:28 am

Anyway I just wanted to leave this updated. I just do not feel the same about posting and giving out advise on this site anymore, ever since the one moderator here (wont name names) basically told me to not give out my advise anymore...




Oh for fucks sake....you have just as much right to speak your truth and use a damn disclaimer as the next person....don't let that keep you away. I'm REALLY happy for you and dammit....since you HAVE been thru the fucking ringer....who better to suggest what to do. Just couch it in....."this is what worked for me". What I read of your threads seemed to say that.

But...I have to say my memory sucks so I hope it wasn't me that told you to STFU. :shifty: :shifty:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby Justjules13 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:23 am

(It wasn't you Cheeps) I just got back...we need to catch up. How you doing?

Hey SOS!
Glad to see you posting. Your experience and suggestions are very valuable! Tell people how you did it and what worked for you.
I think the mod that said to STFU didn't realize that it would effect you like it did and I'm sure she would want you to continue to post too. Your a success story and we need more of them...right?
I'm really proud of you. I know how hard it is. I'm looking at my fifth jump soon and your a inspiration.
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby StuckOnSub » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:03 am

So I've been off the benzos for just over 1 year and 2 months now and I think most of the post acute stuff is gone. I still have some random twitches and stuff like that, but it's it a big deal and I know I could have them for life from the benzos. But again it's not bad at all and only happens once in a while. At least I don't need to take any type of anti-convulsant or anything like that (like some other long time benzos users I know).

Life is without a doubt Much better without the benzos. My anxiety is still way better than it was on the anti anxiety meds (benzos). That still amazes me that those damn benzos were causing my daily panic attacks and constant worry/anxiety. And the most messed up part about that is while I was on them I had NO IDEA that they were causing me Any problems! I thought I NEEDED them for my anxiety and panic attacks... I couldn't have been more wrong!

I was on and off benzos since my late teens (so about half my life). So if I can get off, you can do it too! Your doctor sure isn't doing you any favors prescribing you a daily dose of benzos, that's for sure! Whether you believe me or not, it is a medical fact that prolonged daily benzo use lowers your body's ability to cope with anxiety and stress, which in turn raises your anxiety levels (which makes you think you Need the benzos, it's a vicious circle!)
Been on (and off) sub for just over 10 years. Clean as of August 10th 2014
Was on benzos for about 10 years. Went off cold turkey on Aug. 21st 2013.
Also, been clean from H (& other drugs) just over 3 years.

Everything I say on this site is just my opinion. I am no expert by any means (and I definitely don't mean to come off that way).
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:19 am

I think more Drs are realizing that long term benzos are counterproductive due to rebound anxiety and tolerance. I'm just so thankful I was never prescribed them for anxiety.
Your a great example of someone who used them long term and was able to get off them. Many many props to you!!!
Congratulations for getting free, SOS!
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Cold Turkey off Benzo (Kpin) after about 10 yrs!

Postby hellofriend » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:25 pm

I wanted to bump this thread because I am currently tapering off of Suboxone again...I'm at 1mg right now...and I'm also tapering clonazepam...also at 1mg...bunch of shit happened to me...mom died of lung cancer...got a painful injury...and you can fill in the rest of the blanks. I'm glad things worked out for the OP...but he tapered off benzos incorrectly and this thread is dangerous imo because it doesn't have a disclaimer.

He should of took plan A, and chose the Dr. Ashton protocol. There isn't just a risk of getting seizures and dying when you quickly taper benzos or decide to jump at high doses and be a hero...the risk of brain damage is very real. There is endless amounts of information that has proven that excess glutamate in the brain causes excitotoxicity and kills brain cells. Excitotoxicity plays a role in strokes, brain injuries, rapid withdrawal from gabaergic drugs such as benzodiazepines, and neurodegenerative diseases via overactivation of the NMDA and AMPA pathway by excess glutamate.

So, do not listen to this person and go coldturkey off any of these drugs. Even going off Suboxone and other opioids too quickly might cause brain damage by this mechanism since it is known that opioids indirectly affect the NMDA pathway. There are studies published, that you can find online, about the partial NMDA antagonist, Memantine to rapidly taper people off of Suboxone. There is a ton of information about Memantine and even Dextromethorphan being used to taper off of all benzos with good success. Using Memantine to taper off of benzos and opioids should be done under a doctors supervision because you need to start at a low dose...The study using Memantine to taper people off of Suboxone was at 0.02mg/kg. For benzos....you would want to start at around 2mg, and max out at 5mg.....you also need to stay on Memantine for several weeks after your jump, to give enough time for your gabaergic system to partially heal enough; if you decided to rapidly taper off benzos using this method to prevent a glutamate storm. I haven't used this method, but bought some Memantine and am considering it. So far, I just drop 10% of my clonazepam dose every 2 weeks, which is annoying and slow. I also take magnolia bark extract. It prevents excitotoxicity and certain types of cancer and does a bunch of other shit supposedly.

I brought up Memantine to sort of use it as an explanation to why quitting benzos CT is bad....because too much glutamate causes excitotoxicity. Once we get brain damage, we don't really realize it too btw....the OP described some disturbing lingering symptoms, that seem like protracted withdrawal, which Dr. Ashton explains....is caused by not tapering properly.

I think the doctor who offered the option to quit CT should be sued for malpractice. Most of these doctors handing out benzos like clonazepam think it is harmless. We aren't talking about severe brain damage here btw....so lets not go into a panic...but brain damage that accumulates throughout the years from binge drinking, drug use, benzo withdrwal, and then add a few concussions into the mix...is a recipe for eventually developing a neurodegenerative disease. Severe benzo withdrawal however, might cause permanent brain damage in some people that is mild to moderate. It also just depends on the person too...age, health, environment, genetics, and history.

There is hope though. Running slowly, for long distances (~5 miles) has been proven to heal the brain, by neurogenesis. It releases endogenous stem cells. Meditation does this as well....but you need to meditate effectively ever day...for long periods of time...it is very difficult for people to do this....but most people can quit smoking cigarettes and start jogging if they decided that that's what they wanted. So if you can meditate for 15 minutes, twice a day, morning/night....that would be a good goal to start with.

Also, I read that a ketogenic diet reduces glutamate and ramps up gaba...so far...I'm not sure if it is a good idea to go in to ketosis while in benzo withdrawal...but it has been well documented that people with epilepsy, who consume massive amounts of benzos...go on ketogenic diets to prevent seizures and this diet reverses tolerance to benzos supposedly. So far, all I do is try to not OD on carbs, but I still eat too many carbs because they are addicting. To go into ketosis, you need to eat around ~25g of net carbs everyday for about 5 days...then build it up to 50g of carbs a day according to my friend Dan...who is a self proclaimed expert at using ketone bodies to fuel his brain. If you decide to use a ketogenic diet to battle benzo withdrawal, I honestly do not know how long you should stay on it....maybe a few weeks....It seems it would be more useful to go into ketosis right after you jump. Also, it seems using NMDA antagonists like Memantine would be better suited toward the end of your opioid and benzo taper...because I think I would I only want to take Memantine for six weeks. Not sure if I will use it to be honest, but I am in a hurry to get off these drugs for reasons I haven't stated. So far, I just eat well and I started jogging. I quit smoking about 6 weeks ago...it was very difficult...but it has made me taper much easier. I also am addicted to phenibut...about 2g a day. My brain and body still works very well...I am 31 though...but I am in a serious mess...that can't be denied. I need to be off everything by late spring and have a healthy brain by summer. I'm just putting my faith in exercise, sleeping, eating, meditating, and tapering correctly...and possibly incorporating some experimental dieting and drugs/supplements to aid in preventing PAW, since I now have a better understanding of what is going on. I've been on this cocktail of drugs for 13 months. I made this post to contribute to the cause. It is just some stuff that I learned and it is all solid and backed by science...for all that is worth. So keeping this in mind...and knowing that science is just our way to try to understand this shit better..know that these topics I talked about are not scientific conjecture...they are considered factual...for all that is worth too....because there is still a lot that scientist's need to learn. I do believe the brain can recover from the assaults that we put on it, through some of these methods...or at least I hope.
Suboxone quit date: Nov 15, 2012...6:45 AMish
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