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Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:57 am
by jayro
Sorry kids, I have failed you.
After kicking subs 4 years prior I have slipped up again.
Day after Christmas I wound up in the emergency room with ungodly kidney stones. Hadn't touched an opioid since my Sub crisis all those years before.
Spent three plus weeks on percs until the stone passed, then immediately tapered the percs and ran out a week ago today.

And here's my dumbest fuckin mistake... The day after jumping percs I found a small stash of Trams that I had on hand for my dog. Fucking Trams :(
So every night for the past week I have taken about a 'meager' 32mg of Tram right before bed - incorporating the "wisdom" that it would be no thing. Last night I take a final 25mg and today I awake feel ungodly bad.

How the FUCK could I be so stupid? Here I am again. I guess underestimated my sensitivity to Tram greatly.
:gaah: :gaah: :gaah:

I feel so guilty and ashamed. Opiates and subs cost me my marriage and happiness before - but at least I was off of them. Now here I am again, scared and not knowing what to expect.
I've never jumped Trams and never expected such a small amount would hook me.
I could really use some words here folks..
Even if they are 'you are a goddamned idiot"..

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:08 pm
by jayro
And I don't know if this is a plus or a negative or whatever but this time around I never fell back in love with the opioid. It was just a means to lessen the ungodly pain of stones.
And the Tram, I don't think I noticed anything with. It just allowed me to sleep (i think)..

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:52 pm
by Martin
Hey Jayro

Don't beat yourself up. It happens to the best of us. I'm probably the resident expert on Trams. :banghead:

Tramadol is a nasty little bug. I been through it many times. The withdrawal lasts about week. The worst part is the depression. You'll probably feel pretty dark and depressed for a few days because of the effect it has on your serotonin levels. So you gotta tell yourself that its the drug making you have those terrible thoughts and making you feel all sad or negative thoughts
I wouldn't think you would have a full blown addiction to them at this point though. Even when I take those things for just a couple of days they can make me feel crappy when I stop taking them. I would guess you are going to feel better in a couple of days. You might try the usual comfort meds - especially immodium.

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:50 pm
by jayro
Thanks Martin,
I'll be honest - I've been feeling pretty depressed the whole time taking them -almost as if I was taking just enough to make brain need more and go into the yucks. Granted I came off oxy the same day starting these.
Do you find that sleep was affected more or less than say oxy/hydro etc?

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:04 pm
by cheeps
Jayro....fuck it, you did goof but you didn't go down the path very far. I heaved a huge sigh of relief when you said "trams". But yes, Martin is dead on the money...it does fuck with you head. Do you remember RCguy? He also did what you did. His back was screaming at him...after getting off the tram, he used kratom and it bit him n the ass too.

How was your mood before the kidney stones....diet doc just had surgery for those fuckers and for you men, that is purgatory waiting for them to pass. You passed the test though....you didn't go scouring the neighborhood for more Oxy. It least you stayed in your own cabinet, even if it was Fidos shit.

Glad you've come back though even if it's dope related. You are still off the evil sub! 8-) :banana:

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:52 am
by nomojo3479
Ya man, give it a couple/three days.. u’ll be feeling mostly better by then..hang in there

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:56 am
by jayro
Thanks guys (LOL @ Fido, Cheeps).
Last night was that dreaded first night sleeping on it.
Approaching bed time I caught a legit wave of detox panic as I rolled under the covers. At least for me - if it's gonna be bad, you'll know it the first night (24 hours after last drugs). I freaked and struggled with the sheets a bit then finally passed out.
Upon waking I did a bit of a self evaluation and measured that I wasn't any worse than last night.
Slept OK if not a bit restless. No RLS or sweats thank god. I'm at about 36 hours how - which I guess is halfway home as far as any acute grief is involved. Feeling fairly grumpy but a little less freaked out.

I have this damn bottle of 50mg Trams from the vet and I'm looking at it.
Qty 120 prescribed for my bulldog's occular pain.
Directions indicate 2 x50 every 12 hours for my 55lb bulldog.
Thank jeebs I only ever gave the dog one or two of them per day for maybe a week. Poor guys was so stoned he walked off the side of the bed. Glad I didnt allow him to become hooked too :evil:

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:15 pm
by jayro
Weird how this experience differs from my sub wds.
I have the cloudy head dizzies something fierce right now. I don't recall that last time.

Given that I went from Oxys for a month then stopped those - same day as starting Trams I wonder if I'm not getting the whole ball of wax from both those combined currently? I haven't had a perc for better part of ten days now.
There were two days of the yucks after stopping the percs, but it wasn't life shattering. This, stopping the baby doses of Trams feels nastier.
39 hours..

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:16 pm
by jayro
And I of course go right back to the irrational thought process. "Will I be stuck this way forever??"

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:30 am
by cheeps
No....you will not.....

I'm really glad Fido didn't get hooked too. Poor fucker....probably wanted to puke it up but couldn't. I hope you've thrown those fuckers in the trash that's already gone to the dump!

I posted a link on your other thread. It's good therapy.

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:51 am
by jayro
58 hours and probably a 50% improvement from yesterday. Words I would not have said any day recovering from Subs.
I can sleep and eat. I guess I have little to complain about given that my mood pretty much never recovered from Subs anyway.
Pretty close to adding another stupid notch to my kickin' stick.

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:54 am
by cheeps
Do you keep the stick by the bed?

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:16 pm
by jayro
I do now...

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:52 pm
by cheeps
Stick, STICK....beat Jayro...

An old woman was sweeping her house, and she found a little crooked sixpence. “What,” said she, “shall I do with this little sixpence? I will go to market and buy a little pig.”
As she was coming home she came to a stile; the piggy would not go over the stile.

She went a little farther, and she met a dog. So she said to the dog, “Dog bite pig; piggy won’t go over the stile, and I shan’t get home tonight.” But the dog would not.

She went a little farther, and she met a stick. So she said, “Stick! Stick beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile, and I shan’t get home tonight.” But the stick would not.

She went a little farther, and she met a fire. So she said, “Fire! Fire! Burn stick; stick won’t beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile, and I shan’t get home tonight.” But the fire would not.

She went a little farther, and she met some water. So she said, “Water! Water! Quench fire; fire won’t burn stick; stick wont beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile, and I shan’t get home tonight.” But the water would not.

She went a little farther, and she met an ox. So she said, “Ox! Ox! Drink water; water won’t quench fire; fire won’t burn stick; stick won’t beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile, and I shan’t get home tonight.” But the ox would not.

She went a little farther, and she met a butcher. So she said, “Butcher! Butcher! Kill ox; ox won’t drink water; water won’t quench fire; fire won’t burn stick; stick won’t beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile, and I shan’t get home to-night.” But the butcher would not.

She went a little father, and she met a rope. So she said, “Rope! Rope! Hang butcher; butcher won’t kill ox; ox won’t drink water; water won’t quench fire; fire won’t burn stick; stick won’t beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile, and I shan’t get home tonight.” But the rope would not.

So she went a little farther, and she met a rat. So she said, “Rat! Rat! Gnaw rope; rope won’t hang butcher; butcher won’t kill ox; ox won’t drink water; water won’t quench fire; fire won’t burn stick; stick won’t beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile and I shan’t get home tonight.” But the rat would not.

So she went a little farther, and she met a cat. So she said, “Cat! Cat! Kill rat; rat won’t gnaw rope; rope won’t hang butcher; butcher won’t kill ox; ox won’t drink water; water won’t quench fire; fire won’t burn stick; stick won’t beat dog; dog won’t bite pig; piggy won’t get over the stile, and I shan’t get home tonight.”

But the cat said to her, “If you will go to yonder cow and fetch me a saucer of milk, I will kill the rat.” So away went the old woman to the cow.

But the cow said to her, “If you will go to yonder haystack and fetch me a handful of hay, I’ll give you the milk.” So away went the old woman to the haystack; and she brought the hay to the cow.

As soon as the cow had eaten the hay she gave the old woman the milk, and away she went with it in a saucer to the cat.

As soon as the cat had lapped up the milk, the cat began to kill the rat; the rat began to gnaw the rope; the rope began to hang the butcher; the butcher began to kill the ox; the ox began to drink the water; the water began to quench the fire; the fire began to burn the stick; the stick began to beat the dog; the dog began to bite the pig; the little pig in a fright jumped over the stile; and so the old woman got home that night.



If only it was really this simple...

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:09 am
by Martin
Jayro
glad you getting to feeling better! Yeah, it's most definitely better than jumping off subs because there is
actually an end in sight!

Funny story, I discovered Tramadol by accident, I woke up the morning of my wedding terribly hungover so my doctor called em in, telling me they were non-narcotic. Later, I'm standing on the alter in front of
the preacher lady and suddenly I'm high as balls! They definitely made my wedding day memorable!

Take care bud.

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:35 pm
by jayro
Martin wrote:Jayro
glad you getting to feeling better! Yeah, it's most definitely better than jumping off subs because there is
actually an end in sight!

Funny story, I discovered Tramadol by accident, I woke up the morning of my wedding terribly hungover so my doctor called em in, telling me they were non-narcotic. Later, I'm standing on the alter in front of
the preacher lady and suddenly I'm high as balls! They definitely made my wedding day memorable!

Take care bud.


Wow - you told your doc you were hungover and they prescribed Trams for that?
My doctor would prescribe a long walk and some yogurt.
As I was cleaning up the Tram bottle I sneaked from for my dog I found a second newer bottle with 90 Trams.
That vet must really think his eyeballs are hurting. Dosage was two 50mg twice daily. I gave him one and he walked right off the damn bed.

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:17 pm
by CatsMeow
I don't know what those things are, but I'm definitely staying away from them! I can't believe your Vet prescribed so much for your pup. :spank:

Now, since being put on subs, I question every pill that comes down the pipe. Whether it's for me or any of my animals. I do my research! Burn me once... :nono:

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:16 pm
by jayro
Welp its closing in on 90 hours since taking any opioids.
I have a couple of Vistarils that I'm using to chill before bed. I've never had a dependency on them.

The progression of these wd's as follows if anyone is looking a reference for a similar situation.

12 hours - beginnings of wds
24 hours - symptoms start to peak
36 hours - symptoms peak out
40 hours - noticeable drop in symptoms
48 hours - waves come and go
72 hours - waves in decline
90 hours - acute WDs are probably done.

Symptoms were mostly comprised of cravings, inability to focus, vertigo, cramping, some leg pain and sleep disruption.
Worst part was of course anticipation of the unknown. It really wasn't much more than a relatively short gauntlet of minor WD symptoms.
I'll probably be in lethargic depression mode for a while.

Re: Here I am yet again :(

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:22 am
by cheeps
That's a good chart and I'll remember it is here. Fido got fucked up!! Probably thought he was flying thru the weeds.

Trams were supposed to be a big wonder drug too. Turned into, I wonder if my dogs going to fly....