Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby mynameisDAN82 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:55 am

DanGeorgeBoiler wrote:success stories exist. my doctor has a handful of patients that were successful, one being someone i know personally.


A handful of successful patients, wow... VERY impressive.. Is the doctors name Dr. Daniel Boiler?
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby mano » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:28 am

DanGeorgeBoiler wrote:Now, Im 21 years old, i snorted perks and snorted a little H all within the time frame of ONE YEAR. Nothing compared to some that have shot up for 20 years. ive been on sub for 5 months now. started at 20 mg now down to 4mg 5 months later. thats a pretty steep taper compared to some i read about on here. so i think my doctor is doing it right. thoughts?


First thought is you didn't even need to be put on sub...but now that you have been on it for 5 months you DO have a real drug problem, one that is going to haunt you for the rest of your life.

20 mg's of sub is a HUGE dose....the equivalent of about 1,000 mg's of morphine a day. Yea, your sub doctor knows what he's doing :lol: 2-4 mg's would have been a sufficient starting dose, and 30 days should have been the maximum time on it. Now you are in the same boat as the rest of us....fucked.

It is effortless to wean from any dose of sub down to 4 mg's a day....wait til you wean to below 2 mg's and then tell us how great you feel.

I love people who come along telling everyone how they did it wrong....while they still aren't even off of it. Surely you must be fucking joking??

Don't feel bad....you sound like every other arrogant sub user while they are still on it. I too thought I was smarter than everyone else. I was prescribed 20 mg's a day, but never took more than 4 mg's and i thought that would make a difference. I was wrong. sub can be a great tool, if used no longer than 30 days. Looks like you found the wrong doctor buddy.

You could have just detoxed and been all better in a matter of 2 weeks, but instead you've been dicking around with a super powerful opiate for 5 months under the disguise of recovery :lol:

You do realize sub has a 32 hour half life and the stuff stacks up in your system....that's why you can miss a day or 2 and not get very sick.

The only thing you have going for you is you're 21 years old and your body might recover faster than an older person....It also might not and you could wind up with mental issues forever, but I think you already know that, and thast why you are so defensive. You are trying to prove to yourself you did the right thing. Sorry, you fucked up big time.

You're at the right place now though, and you're soon to find out the truth, and that is that sub sux :yawn:
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Vitek » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:41 am

Thank you for reminding me why it was a good idea to come to this forum and begin tapering immediately before I got in over my head guys.

I almost feel sorry for this guy; but at least he's young -- and being head strong is part of the deal.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:53 pm

Manos right...it's criminal of your Dr to put you on 20mg sub with your opiate history.
And I he's right about you knowing your fucked...why else would you be on a site called Subsux?
Your on 4mg now? You should cut to 2mg tomorrow...if not sooner!
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby jayro » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:08 pm

My doc did the same shit.
I told him the amount of hydro I was doing at the time and he insisted, without any merit that I was lying and taking twice that amount. He put me on 8mg twice daily to start..
Couldn't shit for four days. I cut the amount in half on my own after the first week. Even that was too damn much to start...

I was told by many these docs were behaving criminally but my fear of withdrawals was just enough of an excuse not to listen.
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Kicked Jan, 1 2014
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:07 pm

jayro wrote:My doc did the same shit.
I told him the amount of hydro I was doing at the time and he insisted, without any merit that I was lying and taking twice that amount. He put me on 8mg twice daily to start..
Couldn't shit for four days. I cut the amount in half on my own after the first week. Even that was too damn much to start...

I was told by many these docs were behaving criminally but my fear of withdrawals was just enough of an excuse not to listen.



This is it....they know that addicts are going to bite for this very reason. :ogeez:
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby calvinsdad » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:28 am

Oh great.... Just found this site and I'm now worried. I've been on sub's for about a year now and love it. I was an iv user of tar full time for about three years. I'm 48 yes old and like I said suboxone saved me. The worst thing is that I'm constipated but after years of it you would think I would be ok with it, but its something I wish I could get over. Reading some of these posts are making me realize my 'honeymoon' is almost over.advice anyone?
:ogeez:
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby jayro » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:53 am

Constipation means your dose is too high. It is relatively easy to taper down on Subs. That should allay constipation.
In the meantime try eating a half cup of ground flax seed mixed in yogurt. Take psyllium and plenty of water and the constipation won't be a problem...

Subs may have broken your other habit. Now you have a Sub habit. Might not feel like that just yet - but you can bank on it.. A year in means it's past time to move towards stopping.
Addicted from 1875 - 2014
Kicked Jan, 1 2014
75 years on Laudanum
25 years on Dr. Thomas' Magical Pain Elixer ™
25 years on Goofenthol ®
12 years on Fun Pills
2 years on Subs

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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:54 pm

calvinsdad wrote:Oh great.... Just found this site and I'm now worried. I've been on sub's for about a year now and love it. I was an iv user of tar full time for about three years. I'm 48 yes old and like I said suboxone saved me. The worst thing is that I'm constipated but after years of it you would think I would be ok with it, but its something I wish I could get over. Reading some of these posts are making me realize my 'honeymoon' is almost over.advice anyone?
:ogeez:


Kinda wondering why you'd come to a site called "Subsux" if you love sub? Seems odd to me :problem:
Advise? Educate yourself about sub.
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby calvinsdad » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:12 am

Maybe saying I love was overstating. I do like my Life now that I'm not doing H, I was gonna loose everything. I came here just to hear others experiences. And jayro, seriously, ain't no hope on quiting?
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:54 am

Anyone can quit...
Just taper and do it, if you want off opiate maintaince.
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:30 pm

Are you tapering Mel? I'm 56 and jumped last April...so it can be done! It sucks hard for the first few weeks...(6 in my case) but it gets better..
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ExitWounds » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:33 am

I don't know if this has been mentioned but in my case and I think others subs actually made me believe that I could extend the honeymoon period through things like ADD medication and benzos to help with my newly acquired anxiety from Benzo use (benzoes helped me feel a little higher and think a little more clear) but the initial anxiety came from being able to cope in a foggy effing world.
Because easy has no meaning.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ExitWounds » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:39 am

So my point is that Subs not only suck, they probably only lead to behaviors which try to accomplish getting high by whatever other means is possible, this is caused by the ceiling you never get beyond and the shut down sites causing confusion which you mentally crave an exit through and how do we all some life's problems? Drugs, right? I'm day 13 in my new life and I'm telling anyone reading this you can be too and if you still want to get high, you can go run or do some push-ips you will feel high but it will be a natural high and you will actually feel like a human being again, because we all know that anyone who states they feel human on long term subs isn't really even saying it, the fear and junky in them is saying it, thinking it self preservation, not understanding it is destruction that is two slow to see clearly.
Because easy has no meaning.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Coolstoryhansel » Sun May 25, 2014 12:58 am

Sub isnt a prototypical opiate op. its a synthetic partial agonist. And shit. That goes without saying hence subsux
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby EVH19781984 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:37 pm

LifeIzGut wrote:Four Years Later I Am Still In The Honeymoon Phase :clap:
I am productive,sober,happy (my wife and kid really are!) :banana:
I will be on Sub the rest of my life. Some people on the boards don't like that :deadhorse:

(wonder where this fool is today? 7/24/14..Ratch)

No offense but i would really not celebrate just yet and make a statement like "i will be on sub the rest of my life"!
I too have been on subs for 4 years and until recently thought the very same things but got blindsided by this evil deceiving drug!
Now i am the complete opposite of what i was, i walk around like a zombie, have no interest in my hobbies and even if i do them dont feel good about them,have a hell of a time trying to eat(no appetite)
always very tired and non motivated, have no interest in being with friends or people in general.
Just a overall mess of a human being now!
this is where suboxone led me even though only a few months back i would have agreed with you.
So trust me with this drug there are no definites ;)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Spiritual_High » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:32 pm

It really bothers me how some people and professionals too think that there are no personality changes from bupe. The Dr. who runs this other suboxone site which is suboxone friendly claims that the personality changes one undergoes is a result of the passage of time. That naturally if one isn't active in life then it tends to go boring and since as we age there are less dramatic life changes we lose that drive. Less excitement. He claims his patients talk about how suboxone has made them bland yet forget about how when they were using their life was a crazy mess. The thing is is that this Dr. did not know how the person was before they fell into their addiction! He would have to compare the person pre-drug addiction to the person in suboxone recovery to really make that kind of statement. It sounded to me like he had an agenda and like he represents Reckit Beckinser (spelling??), the manufacturer of suboxone. Well, aparently he does not represent it but he did have some relationship with the company because in this New York Times article about suboxone they mentioned him and some kind of relationship with that company:

"Dr. Junig, 53, is an anesthesiologist with a doctorate in neurochemistry who retrained as a psychiatrist after his own recovery from addiction. He did not intend to become a buprenorphine doctor.
“To be honest, I was just trying to build a practice,” he said.
Nor did he intend to become a buprenorphine blogger or the host of an online conversation about the drug through his website Suboxone Forum, which gets 30,000 visits weekly, and a LinkedIn group with nearly 800 professional members. It grew from his initial passion for the treatment — a passion that got him hired briefly as a “treatment facilitator” for Reckitt Benckiser and also got him in trouble.
In 2011, the Wisconsin medical board reprimanded him for using “tele-psychiatry” to treat five out-of-state addicts he had seen only over Skype.
Over time, Dr. Junig said, he moved “from skeptic to true believer to skeptic.” Others similarly modulated their enthusiasm as they gained a nuanced appreciation of the difficulties of managing a complex patient population and a medication that had become a rampant street drug."

It's sick. If I were totally paranoid and full of conspiracy I would easily say that the government LOVES suboxone because it makes a person a zombie. Not that I think that's what's really going on, hah, but if I wrote a dystopian novel I would definitely weave a story like that. It really bothers me how the professionals discount suboxone's effect on personality. I think that it's especially obvious for creative types who really enjoy music and the arts. When you can't feel art anymore well then you're basically d-e-a-d. And art is the wheel of revolution. So instead of burning down artistic forms of (I believe all art is subversive in its own way) you can just eliminate the ability to appreciate it from within a person.

Througout my suboxone treatment I would periodically once a month or so take more suboxone than prescribed just because of the little addict in me. And it didn't make me high, (I would take like 3 or 4 times my dosage), instead it would make me feel really really weird. As if I had cotton stuck in my brain and as if my feelings were completely blocked. It was sort of frightening. I felt like a maniquen. It was a very unpleasant feeling. I didn't do it too often though. Once I got down to a low enough dose I could take more to get a buzz, but not much more as then it would be "cotton brain" in my head.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Steph1850 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:55 pm

abacus23 wrote:
bluengold wrote:Medically speaking I don't think it's possible to be on sub your entire life (at least 40+ years on sub).. the long-term damage isn't even remotely known about because it's only been on the market for so long and there is clear evidence that research on the long-term is either being suppressed or frowned upon.

This isn't new with suboxone, it happens with every drug and procedure in the scientific/medical community. Why do you think there are so many case-action lawsuit commercials against random drug companies? Hell just the other day i saw a class-action suit on the failure of a certain of kidney transplant. BTW class-action means there are literally thousands to millions of people suffering from the same problem.


My wife just mentioned last night, "there has to be a class-action lawsuit at some point in the near future with what these pharmaceutical companies have done to you and thousands of others on suboxone"... not being told it would be months and months of crazy withdrawals when I could've just jumped off of hydro for a couple weeks and been done with it. I got f*cked a million times over by my initial psychiatrist who got me hooked on suboxone when I was taking 2-3 hydrocodone 10mg's a day. Instead he put me on an opiate that was 20x more powerful in suboxone. A sin what he did. I take responsibility for my actions prior, but I should have been informed that I was getting onto a much more powerful opiate that would be much more difficult to kick. That's a fact!!!!!!!!!!



I can totally relate. I was taking 2-3 Oxys a day and I relapsed after detox when I was still in W/Ds and went up to 32 mg!!! Could have just gone off oxy and been fine in a few weeks. My doc was pushing this "miracle" drug and how it's great. Yeah great. Stomach aches, headaches, female baldness, teeth are crumbling,
Mouth sores, can't pee, muscle aches, on and on.
************
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby subzero58 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:03 pm

5 going on 6 years on sub. was on 400mg of morphine / day. even though my life has improved and the sub helps with my pain , it's the insurance companies that worry me. I may have to be on sub the rest of my life but im going to take the least amount a day I can. I started at 20mg / day was raised to 32mg and it was too much for me. Methadone and suboxone might be the last line of defence we have from street drugs and people dying on the streets. It has done wonders for me and if used with all this new information I have no recourse but to keep using it. Just think of what most people would have done without sub to stop using, or worse think what some people would have done to keep using ??? That's what I worry about. If sub sux for you then either change your dose or go slow when tapering. best wishes to everyone. keep trying, never give in , its your life your fighting for...
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby cheeps » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:37 pm

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: no one should ever be prescribed more than 2-4mgs of sub. There are so many issues with this opiate that haven't been researched....the drug company and drs have no clue or don't care about subs ill effects on people. The side effects and adverse effects are insidious.

There is no doubt about sub and methadone helping people get off other drugs. But to say people MUST use it for life? Most people could do a stint for less than a year and be tapered off, that gives them time to get it together....but no, so many many drs tell their clients, You Must Stay on Maintainence or you will relapse?

It's a fucking money racket after a year and I'm being lenient as hell saying that. Oh well.... :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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