Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

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Postby ceejay1966 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:43 pm

Hi everyone.
To be brief. Was subscribed 3 years ago Oxycontin for bone cancer. Started on 80mg per day. I ended up on 480mg for the last year. I hated this drug with a passion and knew I had to get off it. I didn't care if I was to be in pain, anything was better than this soul destroying drug! I went cold turkey. It was absolutely horrendous. This Monday will be my 5weeks off this drug.All my withdrawal symptoms have gone, except sleep is still a major problem,which is pretty damn horrible, but I know it WILL get better.
Guys, I just want to say, why replace one horrible drug with another ? Sure, withdrawals are just horrible, but if I can do it, believe you me, anyone can. I too was terrified of the withdrawals, as I knew all too well that feeling when you know you are starting withdrawals and have to take another pill!
Go cold turkey, if you don't, all you are doing is prolonging what is for me freedom.
I now see things so much more clearly. The sun is brighter, colors are vibrant, everything looks and feels so much better. Even tho I am still undergoing chemotherapy and radiotherapy, and my radiation burns are terribly painful, I honestly know 100% I would NEVER take another opiate again in my life. Going through these horrific withdrawals really installs that reminder.......why would I ever put myself through that experience ever again!
Good luck to everyone out there.
And for those of you still going through this opiate roller coaster ride to hell, my heart goes out to you.
Please believe me when I say, life is so much more beautiful without Oxyxontin !
:D
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:10 pm

Hi CJ,
Yep...all opiates suck. Well, any drug that's physically or mentally addicting, really.
That's great that the horrendous WD you went thru burned a reminder into your brain. The thing with Sub is...people are promised a pain free WD by their Drs, so of corse they rush to get on board, only to find out they were lied to and get stuck on the stuff for years. I did a "quick" detox off of meth with it and ended up being on it over a yr!
Congrats for freeing yourself of your chains.
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ceejay1966 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:54 pm

Hi Jules.
That's what is so so sad. These doctors have so much to answer for! When I was first prescribed Oxycontin, I was told by my primary Oncologist that it wasn't addictive, as it was being prescribed for genuine pain, and I wasn't using it recreationally. Prior to taking it, I did a little research, didn't like what I read, however he told me, "it's fine, and what I had read was "the least of my worries". When you are going thru cancer, you are so vulnerable at the best of times, and who was I to argue with an Oncologist! Well I soon proved that even if prescribed, you WILL increase your dosage, and you WILL become addicted.
Needless to say, I no longer am under the care of that Oncologist. I told him that his behavior and advice was immoral, pathetic and on the verge of criminal. (I am sure that he doesn't care what I said one bit.......but it sure as he'll made me feel bloody damn good!)
U take care,
Chris
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ceejay1966 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:33 pm

Hey Jules.
I meant to ask you if you are now off Subutex/Suboxone ? I am so very greatful I didn't go down that path.
I did look into it, as I read that it was the easy way to detox. I went to see a few G.P's and they all said that due to my high dosage of Oxy at the time, that I needed to be hospitalized or go into a detox centre in order to go on Suboxone. Whilst a treatment centre is very important for many, it wasn't for me and not an option. That's when I just knew I had to do it on my own. Sometimes things are meant to be. If I was prescribed Subutex/Suboxone, God knows, I would probably still be on it, then have worse withdrawals than I already experienced ( and Im sure that would have killed me.....my withdrawals were horrendous as is!)
I'm also really sorry you got mixed up with Meth. In Australia, we don't have the epidemic that you guys have in America, but it is very much on the rise, which is horrible in itself. Can I ask you why you went down that path? I don't mean to sound condescending or rude, Im just curious why someone who is obviously intelligent,and given everyone knows how addictive and frightening this drug is, would even contemplate it? I know there is a temptation in many of us to give "something a go", and yes, I do know how horribly addictive meth is. Is that what happened with you, you tried it once, and that was it? I've seen many a documentary on meth, and saw so many photos of what it does to peoples appearance, just horrific. Perhaps Im way to vain, but seriously, knowing that a drug will make you lose your teeth, turn your face into one big sore and make you look like you've been 6 feet under for 5 years, I thought would be enough to never go down that path! Buy hey, I consider myself intelligent, yet I became terribly addicted to Oxycontin didn't I, even though I didn't know a great deal about it when first prescribed, I did know enough that made me question my oncologist. Boy, had I known what I know now, I would have run a mile. But it's always easy to say that isn't it? If only, if only!..........
Take care
:-)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:55 pm

Hey Chris,
I think you took meth to mean methamphetamine.("ice" in your part of the world?)...I was on METHadone for 12 yrs. I hate crank...it killed my best friend and I never touch the stuff.
I got on meth for the same reason people get on sub...fear of WD. I've was on sub about a yr and I've been off since April 22. You were smart to detox the Oxy instead of getting hooked up with sub. Oxy is a severe WD but much shorter than sub WD. Sub WD seems to last at least 3 weeks. Oxy WD is over by ten days, right?
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ceejay1966 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:00 pm

........I also wanted to give my experience about tapering. When I decided to quit Oxycontin on my own, I did so much research as to what was the best way to cease. As I wasn't able to go down the Sub path, I read and read and decided that tapering was my best option. It doesn't matter what drug you are addicted too, be it Oxycontin, Subutex or the like, tapering definately, without a doubt was the road to my success. Given that I was on such a high dosage, going cold turkey at that level, given that I have cancer and undergoing treatment, I truly believe it would have killed me. I tapered from 480mg Oxycontin a day, to 80mg over a 3 month period. It was pretty horrible, but manageable. Then the last 2 weeks, from 80mg down to 5mg , then on my 4 days, 1 mg (cut the 5mg into quarters). Whilst my withdrawals were absolutely horrific, I truly believe had I not tapered, my withdrawals would have killed me. So yes, tapering is anyones best option. It's NOT the easy way out, it's the most sensible way out. :-)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ceejay1966 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:07 pm

Hey Jules.
I'm so sorry, Of course I know methadone, but took it as reading Crystal Meth.
So so pleased you meant methadone.....now I fully understand!
Well, my withdrawals lasted to be honest about a month. However, the worst was over in about 10 days. I had wondered why mine were so prolonged and sever, as I read so many forums that the worst would be over in 3-4 days. But I was on a very high dose, and for over 3 years, and hey, everyone is different. As Ive mentioned prior, all of my withdrawals have gone, just my sleeping a pattern is horrible. AND, Im too afraid to take anything for it, as Ive read how that too is terribly addictive ! Nevermind, that will hopefully improve with time. Terribly sorry you lost your best friend ro Meth......so very sad. I lost my partner last year to a drink drive accident, horrible stuff!
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:20 pm

Chris..sorry about your partner. :(
Have you tried over the counter stuff to sleep? Benadryl works for me. I try not to take something every night, but I alternate with Valerian root, trypiphan and phenibut. I don't recommend phenibut as it can be habit forming...and truly, the Benadryl works better.
My only lasting symptoms are some sleepless nights and body temp problems..but they are getting better.
You should be damn proud of yourself. Tapering Oxy is not easy but very smart to do. Your right, tapering is the way to go :thumbup:
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ceejay1966 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:46 pm

Thanks so much for your thoughts! it's been very hard. Especially lonely.....withdrawing from anything is such a lonely experience in itself. I don't have any friends that have any addiction problems (well none that I know of lol) so it's very hard not being able to talk to anyone in great depth. That's why these forums are so brilliant. I've gained to much insight into addiction, ways to be free ect. Honestly, if these forums weren't around, I may very well still be on Oxy.The information out there, is just overwhemingly positive and so informative. Even though I am now free, I still like to read forums. I guess it still helps me appreciate where I am today, what Ive gone through, and it's also such a huge reminder, to never go down that path again. Also, if anything I post helps just one person, thenbthat makes me so very very happy. And yes, I am proud of myself now. It took me a while to get to that point though. I really loathed myself for so long for getting myself into that situation in the first place and for so long. But have since learnt,that "if you dwell on the past.......you have no future" !

PS.... I have tried "Restavit" and "Sleepright" . Don't know if u have this particular OTC sleep aid, but am sure you have the same version. It didn't do a thing for me whilst withdrawing, but hey, you've just given me a prompting, perhaps they might help now....THANKS for reminding me about them
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Vitek » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:40 pm

I just wanted to add, in case anyone was questioning it WHATSOEVER. The 'honeymoon phase' goes away with every single opiate. Other drugs, eh - that's another story, but I digress.

I was on methadone for 3years at 105mg. I had the money, the transportation, etc. Why did I stop?
Because $400 a month wasn't worth what I was feeling. $100 a month wasn't worth it.
Talk about being tired all the time and depending on other shit to level you out.

It will catch up with you, it always does. You'll wish you never used (MMT, Suboxone, etc.)
Dependence is the enemy. It's always waiting.

The only options are, go up in MG and wait it out until you need to that AGAIN.
or, quit.

You have to ask yourself, 'What is my life going to be?'
Addicts know this: 'ALL or Nothing'
Vitek
30 y/o MAN! - 1983[/i]
Opiates: 2005-2008 & 2011-2012* (6 months worth before return to clinic)
Methadone: 2008-2011 & 2013-10/20/13 | Suboxone: 10/23/13-1/27/14
Bleeding - Pain is a god's reward | Gliding through these dungeons
Heightened senses overwhelmed | Hedonistic rupture | Endurance makes one divine
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby DanGeorgeBoiler » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:54 am

ok. i dont want to offend anyone or try to say anyone is wrong here. But ive noticed that most of the people on here were some big time drug addicts at one point, i seen the one guy has been doing opiates since 1985. Thats 15+ years of shooting H directly into your bloodstream. And then Sub comes out and Doctors dont know anything about it and they promise you its a "miracle" drug and have you on it for years and then when u try to come off it, you experiance bad withdrawl and naturally your pissed, and you want to blame sub and you want to blame your doctor but you have to remember, you shot up H for 15 years! That doesnt fix itself! That messed your body and brain up bad, so suboxone is not to blame. Now i totally agree that sub is NOT a miracle drug. But i DO think it works if the program is executed correctly. I read about the 21 day taper. I happen to think that will not work. I think it contradicts what your trying to say in this website. Your educating everyone about Buprenophine and the Half life of suboxone. So lets say your doctor prescribes you 16mg a day. first off its going to take a few days for you to even know if that initial dose is right for you, and then you must let that stabilize in your system before you try going to a lower dose. Once you go to a lower dose its going to take a good week for your stacked up half lifes from your intial dose to leave your system so that you can simply determine if your second lower dose is even good for you at that time. and so on and so on. so, 21 days? i dont think so. and even if 21 days could prove to be successful for some, its gotta be impossible to cure a 15+ year heroin addiction in 21 days. the only way to do that is to quit cold turkey and then not relapse. and the success rate of that, slim to none. now i also agree that you should not be on sub for years because the buprenophine doesnt let the brain come back to normal and all that. While im on that topic, most opiate users i know dont really give their brains a chance to really come back to normal, they dont want to have withdrawl so they simply get high all the time so that they are always high and never have to worry about withdrawl.In that case, doing regular opiates and doing buprenorphine are very similar. assuming the drug user doesnt give their brain time to come back to normal. any way i think it takes a little time for sub to do its job because of the process i previously describedabout letting it stableize. Now, Im 21 years old, i snorted perks and snorted a little H all within the time frame of ONE YEAR. Nothing compared to some that have shot up for 20 years. ive been on sub for 5 months now. started at 20 mg now down to 4mg 5 months later. thats a pretty steep taper compared to some i read about on here. so i think my doctor is doing it right. thoughts?
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:40 am

Who shot dope for 15 yrs here?
These type of posts are always from someone STILL on sub....
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby DanGeorgeBoiler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:42 am

lol thats all you have to say?? yes i am STILL on subs. you dont have anything else to respond to? Im not saying anyone specifically shot dope for 15years but i see that youve been a drug user since 1985 so for the past 30 years youve used opiates. im talking generally about people who have used opiates for years and years and years. your missing the point.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby DanGeorgeBoiler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:51 am

your just mad because your doctor tapered u slowly and my doctor didnt.. not my fault. like i said, i think my doc is doing it right. now i havent tried to jump yet but well cross that bridge when it comes. but as long as you taper correctly, withdrawl should be minimal. I realize that your drug addiction may have been worse than mine. obviously because you were doing pills and IV morphine since before i was born. so that may induce a slower taper from subs. but your long 30 year history of drug ABUSE may be the cause of your withdrawl. not the ONE year you did subs
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby DanGeorgeBoiler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:54 am

those very few and in between success stories about subs is probably from people who went to the right doctor.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby DanGeorgeBoiler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:09 am

one more thing id like to point out about my sub experiance. everyone is talking about this honeymoon phase. but with me, sometimes if i forget to take sub one or two days in a row i can kind of feel withdrawl, like maybe a headache or just lack of motivation nothing serious at all. so that pretty much tells me that my dose is spot on just enough to get by. which is a good thing if u ask me, especially after all ive read about buprenophine. so again, i think i went to the right doctor. and within my relativily steep taper, everytime my dosage got decreased and i stabilized, i felt no difference, still some very very very minor wd sympts when going a day or two without taking it. even when i went down to this invisibile ceiling above 4mg. also im going to recommend if my doctor doesnt, to start going every other day when i get down below 1mg. like .75mg everyday for 4 weeks and then .75mg every other day for 4 weeks. then .5mg everyday for 4 weeks and then .5mg everyother day for 4 weeks and then down to .25 everyday and then every other day. that may help too. like i said i agree that sub is not a miracle drug, but i do beleive it does work. success stories exist. my doctor has a handful of patients that were successful, one being someone i know personally. just as long as you taper correctly
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:18 am

but as long as you taper correctly, withdrawl should be minimal.




This place is for all the folks who were sold success from the wrong dr.....plenty of wrong drs still out there.

If you don't like it, if you disagree with why we are here and you discount other people's reality....move on. Come back when you are 3 weeks post detox....you have a good taper plan...something that only recently has come to light....shit they didn't know and many still don't know.

Your taper came from a place such as this.......so stfu and get on with your reality, your process. :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :ogeez:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:40 am

Yes...come back when your OFF sub and tell us how wrong we are....AssBite!
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby CTCheryl » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:50 am

Another one of those "brain healing", I feel no difference, types. Wait until you REALLY try to get off that shit...then come back and talk to us. Your doctor of course doesn't want to scare you, you are a part of the "solution" to drug addiction. The more addicts on sub and off H are all that matters to them. Of course, that is unless you aren't really an addict....?

Do you really think when you are on day 8 of no sub, shitting yourself and feeling like death this same doctor will help you?
Do you think we are all just making this shit up because we are...resentful? Disappointed? I mean, really, what is our gain from telling you what sub withdrawal did to us and helping others get through it?

Oh, one more thing, do you know anyone, anyone at all that has staying on sub for more than 2 years and just tapered no prob? Please, have them come and post their experience here, because I am very curious to meet them. Oh, and they really don't have to have been on H for long long periods of time.

Anyone who has been here for awhile will tell you. Suboxone is a tool, VERY short term tool to detox. But long term maintenance, never works. There is a price attached to that.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Justjules13 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:23 am

DanGeorgeBoiler wrote: now i havent tried to jump yet but well cross that bridge when it comes. but as long as you taper correctly, withdrawl should be minimal.


:popcorn: "I haven't tried to jump yet".....that statement says it all! :lolno:

"As long as you taper correctly withdrawl should be minimal"... :rofl: I hear his sub Dr talking here. :ogeez:
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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