Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

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Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ratch » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:51 pm

Pre-Induction-You are fed up with your Drug Of Choice, You have tried to quit many many times on your own, you are so fed up with the fatigue, with the scoring, your dosage just kept getting higher. (to feel "normal")

You have heard about suboxone through a friend, read about it , your Dr. spoke to you about it- you have only been told/heard great things (You may have even been warned, but you are so fed up with your addiction you will try anything.you might even swear it will only be short term)

Post-Induction- (if you get started on the right dose)
You feel GREAT, everything you imagined it would be it delivered on.. You feel normal again.(being a addict you may even experiment with a little extra just to see if you can feel better than normal) (a lot of people get started on way too high of a dose so they feel dizzy, nauseous, and get that infamous buprenorphine headache)

Once you feel normal again, you have extra energy , you are no longer in that loop of addiction, things just feel awesome. This is referred to as the "honeymoon phase", you want to shout it to the world, you tell anyone how great it is.you want to turn everyone on to this fantastic new discovery.

Sort of like the way somebody turned us on to drugs for the first time because they thought they were great too!

The Reality-
While on sub, your pupils are still pinned, you ARE still taking a opioid every single day, you are still constipated all the time. Sub is really strong, and the life is so much longer that your dosing is less frequent. So your old habits are initially broken. You say to yourself, why would I want to get off this when its making me feel so good/productive.

The TRUTH-
You really are not as normal as you think. Your perception of the real normal was distorted by your previous drug use. In actuality you are just not as high as you were before, being a partial agonist it only gets you high to a certain level. Your perceptions, feelings, actions are just slightly distorted. If you dont believe this, give a small piece of sub to a straight person and ask them how they feel, I tried that little experiment it wont be normal

The Failure-
After being on sub for a random amount of time- (usually 6months to 3 years) you begin to realize that you are beginning to feel foggy, distant, or removed. Your dosing will be needed to get out of bed, it will become your morning cup of coffee, you will plan your life around your dose, your old DOC behavioral habits will begin to revolve around the sub. normal will become disgusting.the fog will get worse and worse. Your fatigue will get more frequent. This is caused by a combination of decreased neurotransmitter production and temporary shut down of specific receptor sites.

Trying to stop-
Every week you swear to yourself you will start to taper, you make declarations like quitting smoking (by summer I will stop) every time you see the Dr you mention quitting or cutting back, he/she just smiles and gives you another script. You start to feel guilty about dosing around others, you realize that this is just another drug. With sub or MMT since the life is so long your brain loses this event horizon its just always high. This is one of the reasons that the wds and PAWS/Rebound are so notoriously long with longer life opioids, the receptors have shut down that naturally produce because they are unused. On sub your brain is always flooded with med. With other opioids these receptors still fire occasionally when the drug wears down, this is why wds are not as long from other drugs, and PAWS is more infrequent.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby LifeIzGut » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:14 am

Four Years Later I Am Still In The Honeymoon Phase :clap:
I am productive,sober,happy (my wife and kid really are!) :banana:
I will be on Sub the rest of my life. Some people on the boards don't like that :deadhorse:

(wonder where this fool is today? 7/24/14..Ratch)
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby beachnut » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:28 am

LifeIzGut wrote:Four Years Later I Am Still In The Honeymoon Phase :clap:
I am productive,sober,happy (my wife and kid really are!) :banana:
I will be on Sub the rest of my life. Some people on the boards don't like that :deadhorse:



I do wish you luck in life... But way too many have suffered at the hand of sub, me included. I do have to say.. I am changing my attitude with short term.. maybe it does work that way. I just didn't get that opportunity. My sub dealer was just like the corner boyz with selling the H... "make it strong for a few weeks then we got them.. we will be rolling in the money".

Its a choice one makes for themselves... replacement TX for life or live free of chains. Your choice is replacement TX.
IF your happy with that.. go for it. I do feel for the kids though. Being raised with addictive parents.. I surely learn at a very early age how to get what I wanted... wait for the dope to kick in first then ask for what ever.. stay away till the dope has satisfied them for sure or :deadhorse: .

If I had to choose replacement tx for my family members... would not be sub. I do have feeling that your not so happy or why even visit a site called "SUBSUX".

Wish you well.

Bonita
Watch your Thoughts, they become WORDS~Watch your Words, they become ACTIONS.
Watch your Actions, they become HABITS~Watch your Habits, they become CHARACTER.
Watch your Character, for it becomes your DESTINY.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby xenofears » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:44 am

I would say that's a troll Bonita.

If the honeymoon phase Ratch described -- which I certainly had and described elsewhere -- lasted forever, I would still be happily on Sub.
Sub free 3 years. Klonopin free 1 year. 100% drug free. Feeling somewhat ok. :thumbup:
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby cjr1974 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:33 pm

Sure wish i could find that honeymoon stage again.....iv been on sub for a year now and most of it has been pure hell.....the scary part for me is knowing all the pain i went through before and having to deal with it...iv been through many withdraws but the sub withdraw was far more intense...causing me to relapse..prison it is!!!!!
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:03 pm

cjr1974 wrote:Sure wish i could find that honeymoon stage again.....iv been on sub for a year now and most of it has been pure hell.....the scary part for me is knowing all the pain i went through before and having to deal with it...iv been through many withdraws but the sub withdraw was far more intense...causing me to relapse..prison it is!!!!!



cjr....cut and paste it into a thread for yourself and tell us more on your experiences.... cheeps
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
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More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ForJJ821 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:33 am

Yep this is pretty much spot on of what happened to me. I've been on bup for 3 years, first year was awesome, since then I've been telling myself I would taper/get of/etc, I can't think straight on bup, it became my new DOC, I relied on it to just wake up in the morning and I feel like I live in a haze while on it, no energy, no motivation, etc. But no more, it's day 4 off sub and I'm getting off this shit for good.
Suboxone free since March 6, 2011 !!

Wish me luck!
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby sissymitchie » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:47 am

Oh my gosh its true, i have been on subs for 7 months now. I do not feel good any more everyday life is a struggle, i have headaches, my neck and lymphnodes hurt, my stomach hurts and theres nothing i can do about it and here my doctor and even myself at first i swore to everyone this was a miracle drug because the first time i had subs i was in rehab and i only took it for 5 days and on the 6th day i felt so good and so fourth but long term yuck i feel shitty and tired and disgusted and now im scared to keep weening down i have gone from 24mgs a day and now im down to 6mgs and it just keeps getting worse!!!
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ForJJ821 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:52 pm

Sissy, I just jumped off from 6 mgs. Its been 4 days now. I think you should jump off as soon as you can because theres never going to be a good time or "perfect" time to jump... no one ever wants to choose to put themselves through withdrawals.. anyways the only reason I say this is cause I dont want you to be like me and waste 3 years of your life on this crap because sooner or later if you don't jump now you could end up like a lot of us who have been on it and wasted many many years feeling like shit... I hate suboxone and I'm never going back. Good luck!!
Suboxone free since March 6, 2011 !!

Wish me luck!
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby cheeps » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:01 pm

ForJJ821 wrote:Sissy, I just jumped off from 6 mgs. Its been 4 days now. I think you should jump off as soon as you can because theres never going to be a good time or "perfect" time to jump... no one ever wants to choose to put themselves through withdrawals.. anyways the only reason I say this is cause I dont want you to be like me and waste 3 years of your life on this crap because sooner or later if you don't jump now you could end up like a lot of us who have been on it and wasted many many years feeling like shit... I hate suboxone and I'm never going back. Good luck!!



WORD :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ratch » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:18 pm

Damn I missed that "4 years and still in the honeymoon phase" post...

Yeah I was there too for around 4, maybe 5 years.. I decreased dosage, used AD's, and complimented my sub with a few Red Bulls a day.. By year 7 it got so fucking bad for me I was in wd's everyday regardless of my dosing. I am really glad sub is still working for you.. I know 2 people that made it 10 years.. but it caught up to them too.

Come back in a few years when you want to feel like a human again. If our bodies required opioids everyday to survive we would have been born with a RX for sub at birth.

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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby megadebt » Fri May 06, 2011 5:15 pm

LifeIzGut wrote:Four Years Later I Am Still In The Honeymoon Phase :clap:
I am productive,sober,happy (my wife and kid really are!) :banana:
I will be on Sub the rest of my life. Some people on the boards don't like that :deadhorse:


I too am in that Honeymoon phase after 3 1/2 months on the med. This drug has improved my life in countless ways. But, I've been told here, as elsewhere, that the honeymoon doesn't last, and that the negative side effects begin to mount quickly after a certain period. But, here you are with 4 whole years in and you're claiming that the neg. effects skipped right over you. That's encouraging to hear. But, your story appears to be the anomaly, not the general rule.
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby giygas37 » Sun May 08, 2011 11:15 pm

I can vouch for this. I went through all of these phases. Then I quit cold turkey. It wasn't easy, but now I am in the best phase of them all, being clean (finally)!!
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby DrRich » Sat May 21, 2011 2:31 pm

I always see people wanting to get off suboxone. I know it is expensive, but it is one of the best meds we have in medicine. Works wonders. With 95% relapse rate of true addicts, why play with fire. I know everybody wants to think they are in the 5%, but I've had a number of patients crash and burn after getting off. I do try to get people off, but only after they are doing great for a long time. If having side effects, talk to your dr about lowering dose or trying subutex. Also, the next few years we will see the peripheral opioid blockers out that are more convenient to take than Relistor.

Dr. S
suboxone cost
anti anxiety medications


<a href="http://www.allaboutsuboxone.com">where-are-all-the-suboxone-clinics</a>
<a href="http://anxietytreatmentwithoutmedications.org/">anti anxiety medications</a>
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby doperdog » Sat May 21, 2011 4:12 pm

DrRich wrote:I always see people wanting to get off suboxone. I know it is expensive, but it is one of the best meds we have in medicine. Works wonders. With 95% relapse rate of true addicts, why play with fire. I know everybody wants to think they are in the 5%, but I've had a number of patients crash and burn after getting off. I do try to get people off, but only after they are doing great for a long time. If having side effects, talk to your dr about lowering dose or trying subutex. Also, the next few years we will see the peripheral opioid blockers out that are more convenient to take than Relistor.

Dr. S


Well, you're partially correct, but your stats are off. 100% of people who are on sub won't relapse because, in order to relapse, YOU HAVE TO BE OFF DRUGS FIRST! Now, take your sandwich board and peddle your wares where they'll be better appreciated. Drugs sell themselves, so it shouldn't be hard. Must be late on a car payment... This is SubSUX.
“Just cause you got the monkey off your back doesn't mean the circus has left town.” - George Carlin
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby ratch » Sun May 22, 2011 8:28 pm

"If having side effects try lowering your dose or switch to subutex?" Did this clown just fall out of a time warp from 2007? Doing great for a long time..then he 'TRY's to get them off. If sub isnt playing with fire.. try taking it for 6+ months and then jumping off. OMFG its so sad that there are still Dr's out there that just got paid a first time visit from the pharmaceutical rep with free samples of sub and buckets of pens, pads, sunshine, sparkles, and unicorns.

want to really puke?

HOW IS THE BONUS MONEY CONFIGURED IN PHARMACEUTICAL SALES JOBS?

Every company determines their own method of how to assess growth and this can change every 6 months – so don’t get too comfortable! For example, some pharmaceutical sales companies track the # of new scripts coming in and your goal will be set in reference to that measure. Other companies may determine bonus by measuring the total # of scripts (not just the new scripts. And yet another pharmaceutical company may base target on a formula that takes both of these measurements into consideration. Again, this is a great question to ask in the interview process because it shows that you are familiar with the general bonus structure system. Basically, every company tweaks their compensation system a little differently.

(even wonder why people are RX'ed 16mg/24mg/32mg a day?) It isnt about the patient..its the PROFIT!



http://www.pharmaceutical-rep.com/pharm ... alary.html
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby 620tcat » Sun May 22, 2011 8:50 pm

DrRich wrote:I always see people wanting to get off suboxone. I know it is expensive, but it is one of the best meds we have in medicine. Works wonders. With 95% relapse rate of true addicts, why play with fire.

Dr. S


As a cancer survivor I must say, that sir, is one of the most stupid things I have ever read on the internet.

You are not a doctor, you are a shister. You have sold your soul, you have given up on the one thing you are supposed to be working for, saving, LIFE. All in the name of the mighty dollar.
You sir and your ilk make me sick.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shister
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby sonjon32 » Fri May 27, 2011 12:58 pm

I have been on Suboxone off and on for about three years. Like I keep hearing from others, the first year was great but I ended up moving from NC where I could get my Subs pretty much for free with my insurance to Florida where I had no insurance and not enough money to pay cash to stay on them, so I took my last script and tapered myself down to 4mg and then I was done this process took about a month to run out of subs and about a month to get over the sickness. This may sound crazy but it seemed so easy to come off of them then I guess because I didnt know what to expect, after I took my last dose three days went by and I kept waiting for the sickness, you know like coming off of oxy's or other powerful opiates but I felt fine and thought wow this is easy maybe this was a miracle drug, a withdrawel free detox? no way. then by day four I started to feel a little tired and a few chills but nothing major, to make a long long story short. day 5 and 7 were the worst and then It is all in your head trying to figure out what to do with yourself, the boredom, the racing thoughts, and sleepless nights thats no fun. But I got better, lost weight, I dont know if it was from the exercise or diareaha but I lost weight none the less. Life was OK and then I moved back to NC and started doing pain pills again and couldnt afford my habit and my fiance's too. so I suggested we go back to the suboxone clinic and two and a half years later here we are... miserable. he says I am distant, dont pay attention to anyting. depressed and emotionless I can see changes in myself but not like he can, but I believe him because I can see the changes in him, the depression, no motivation to accomplish anything, his mood swings, how he is like a ticking time bomb ready to explode, unaffectionate when he used to be the most affectionate person I had ever met. We are scared because we both went to detox about a year ago to get off of them and it wasnt so easy this time. Detox only keeps you 5 to 7 days and u are OK while you are there and they are medicating you and giving u sleep meds but when u come home and cant sleep or get out of bed with two toddlers it seems impossible. hence the fact we are an addicted couple and feed off of eachothers addiction. HEL{P{{{{{{[
RIDIN THE SUB ROLLERCOASTER
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby sonjon32 » Fri May 27, 2011 1:09 pm

I am so tired of this, there has to be an easy way to detox at home. I have 3 kids 2 of which are toddlers and I cant go back to detox, nor can I be sick and in bed. Dear God I am so sorry for what I have done to myself and my family . Please help
RIDIN THE SUB ROLLERCOASTER
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Re: Analogy of Failure from Buprenorphine (Sub)

Postby Poncho » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:01 am

Sonjon, it's scary what you are describing here. This is the kind of shit that makes people drive into lakes with their kids in the car. It's impossible for both of you to detox of sub at the same time when you have little kids. So how about one of you starting to detox and the other staying on the sub for the time being to take care of the kids. You've got to support eachother and remember why you're together even though the sub will fuck up your emotions. Make a plan !
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