Hey there...I'm new to the site

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

I'm done!

Postby G8erMike » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:04 pm

Hey there. Been in suboxone for over 3 years at 16mg daily. I have been abusing it for the past 18 months or so. My wife has suspected something was up for a while but I lied to her and made her believe it was in her head. Saturday night I told her the truth and it crushed both of us. I feel so dirty and ashamed for not telling her that I was abusing this med. She has asked me numerous times in a loving manner if I needed help and I said no. Now that I have come clean to her about the abuse I have been a mess.

Every time I have asked my doc what the plan to get me off this med was he would say there is no reason to come off of it. I need to come off. Any suggestions on what to do? Should I try a new doc to help me taper?

thanks
G8erMike
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:00 pm

Re: I'm done!

Postby cheeps » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:10 pm

You can do that...nowadays some Drs actually give you the OK to do so....but they don't know how to taper you down. Can you tell us a little more about how you were abusing the sub. How old you are? What kind of doses you've been taking and for how long? What drug you were using before and how much. Any medical issues? Are you working? Do you have good insurance....any info kinda helps us point you a good direction.

Welcome to SS! If you stick with us, we can help you...
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: I'm done!

Postby G8erMike » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:02 pm

Thanks for your response. A little about me...I am a 46 year old retired Marine who is now a business exec. I got severely injured during the war and have had 21 operations on my back and knees. I got addicted to pain killers, you know the same old suspects, percocets, Oxy's, fentanyl and my wife did an intervention on me to stop after 8 years of opiate dependency and abuse. I would chew the Oxy's at the end to get more out of them and take 100mg of Percocet instead of the prescribed 30mg. I never had to buy from the street or do illegal drugs as my injuries were so severe doc's gave me whatever I wanted. After my last surgery in 2014 I had a hard time getting off the pain killers again so my shrink suggested suboxone. I have been on 16 mg daily since then primarily for "pain mgmt." I have a very demanding job and home life like most everyone and realized that if I took 56mg of Sub instead of 16 that I would get a TON of energy and could get through the difficult times. When I take at least 32mgs a day I get a nice high and a ton of energy as I stated earlier. I have never run out early on a 30 day supply in all these years. What I do is only take 8mg instead of 16mg for a few days to save up enough Subs for a binge. I don't inject them or anything like that I just keep putting them under my tongue. My wife has been suspicious for a while as my eyes get dialated, my voice gets really raspy, and then when I come down I crash and nod off. She accused me of doing heroin. NOPE, just the subs.
G8erMike
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:00 pm

Re: I'm done!

Postby nomojo3479 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:10 am

Gatormike.... what’s up welcome..
Sounds like ur using an extreme amount of suboxone... my suggestion would be to go to the subsux section of the board and start reading threads...
Suboxone is a very insidious and highly addictive drug..
I would suggest trying to stabilize (taking the same amount day in day out)... at the lowest dose possible. maybe 16 mgs per day for now or lower perhaps..
Once u get stable u can start thinking about tapering... 50+ mgs a day is waaaay to much (IMO). There is a ceiling effect around 32 mgs.

Taking suboxone to catch a buzz is not a good idea..there are much better drugs for this . truly..

I’ve been addicted to sub for almost 12years now... I’ve been tapering my dose for the last year.,, it’s a battle trying to get off this crap but
if you really want to get off suboxone this the the best resource out there and the only place I’ve found where people actually get off and stay off.
Good luck and welcome again... glad to have you on the board and rest assured all of us here @subsux know the pain you are going thru.
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: I'm done!

Postby cheeps » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:09 pm

Hey gator....you are one tough fucker.....21 surgeries, all that hell you had to go thru and now this.


When you are on your days with 8mgs....how much does this help your pain?
What kind of pain and where exactly is the worst?
How many days do you go in between binges and when was the last one?

I'm going to have lots of questions for you so I hope you don't mind my somewhat invasive nature here. We stay pretty honest around here and can be pretty blunt. You are allowed to bitch, piss, moan, cuss and totally vent...no judgement. Sometimes it takes more than one battle to win this war. You may feel like a bitch at times. Tapering and Getting off sub can make you Very Emotional. My dad was a china marine and my grandfather was career Army, retired with one star. We've had many vets over the years and you have my respect.

But now....you are at the mercy of one of the worst drugs in the fucking galaxy....a totally different beast than SAOs like Oxy, heroin, and the other short acting opies. How much do you know about suboxone?

One thing I will tell you now is that you need major help with this, support kind of help. You've got that here and no one but you and your wife need ever know.

For now...until I get to know more about you, try to stay on 8mgs.....can you do this or do you need 16? We will have you tapering very soon....I want to check your actual stability on a dose first.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: I'm done!

Postby cheeps » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:13 pm

PS....don't say shit to your dr yet.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: I'm done!

Postby G8erMike » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Thank you both for your response. Honestly, I did ZERO research on Sub before I started taking it. My doc assured me that we could get off the Oxy's and Percs and that I could stay on Subs virtually forever. Now that I have done research I have found a ton of side effects to the meds that I have been experiencing and now I am addicted to aan even more powerful med. I have the most amazing wife and she has know that something has been off with me and she has been telling met that if I am taking anything to tell her and we will get me well TOGETHER. I lied to her face for a year and finally told her the truth Saturday. I have hurt her so bad and I am devastated inside. I feel empty, depleted, ashamed, and disgusted with myself...

So after getting hurt in the war like I said I have had 21 operations on my knees and back. I think I have had 10 surgeries on my knees including 3 total replacements. Yes I know I only have 2 knees but one had to be replaced twice. I crushed numerous veterbrate in my back and ruptured most of my lumbar discs. After numerous attempts to stabilize the back they ended up fusing my entire lumbar spine from L1 - S1.

I have been taking 16mg of Subs since 8/14. I figured out about a year ago that if I doubled or tripled up on the strips that I caught a great buzz and it helped me in business situations to feel "jacked up" and fearless. Very similar feeling as the percs used to give me. So when I know I have a bug meeting coming up where I am presenting in front of very large groups I will take 8mgs a day for say 3-4 days to have an excess amount to take when its time for me to present. So I am in the financial services/life insurance industry and I teach financial advisors how to sell life insurance to their clients. Weekly I am doing presentations in front of large audiences and I feel like the subs take away my nerves and anxiety about presenting.

I get 30 day supply of subs every month and in over 3 years I have never been short at the end of the month. In some instances I may actually have a few extra and then I save those to party with.

If I dropped from 16mg to 8mg NOW forever will I get sick? I have only done that for a few days at a time in the past.

I feel so bad lying to my wife. I appreciate all the help and support.
G8erMike
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:00 pm

Re: I'm done!

Postby G8erMike » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:44 pm

Cheeps- I forgot to answer your question. On the days that I am just taking 8mg I DO NOT feel any more pain than I do when I am on 16mg. But, I do find myself thinking about taking the other strip I didn't take all freaking day.
G8erMike
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:00 pm

Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby G8erMike » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:59 pm

Hey everyone,
I am G8erMIke and I am new to the site. Been addicted to Suboxone for several years and abusing it for the past 18 months. I am here looking for support, guidance, and help to get off this God forsaken medication.

Thanks, G8erMike
G8erMike
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:00 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby cheeps » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:57 pm

Gator....I'm moving both your threads to the subsux part of the forum...we are small and most peeps check that part of the forum first. I always tell peeps to go to the main page, look in the middle near the top and click on "active topics", that way they can see the most recent topics and the last posts. Anytime you do this...if you click the last page or the little box to the right of someone's name...you get the most recent update...just FYI.

So, you will keep the title, "hey there, I'm new" but your thread will be in subsux. When you have time to read some threads...the longest ones with the most pages usually have the best info in them.

Currently we have many peeps in active tapers, nomojo, cat's meow, annalo, diet doc, stagemonkey, drksouled, diveintotheblue, tooth&nail, jayro, and Martin.

Peeps that have jumped recently are subjumpa, smots, dcleanist, runthemachine, and sub4sevenyears.

Edotz, don pisto, Alicia, sub zero, and some other old timers come back with comments, support, and updates....they've been off for more than two years.

Now I must do some maintenance.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby cheeps » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:44 pm

Ok....my eyeballs are killing me. Gator....heres a thread that will freak you out....but it's necessary for you to know it all. Fortunately since this thread was started, we've learned how to mitigate much of the shitty after the jump.

There are two things you will have to decide when you become more educated.

1. Do you really want to stay on Sub the rest of your life?
2. Will you be ready for the commitment and time it takes to become sub free or at least stable at one low dose?

Be back tomorrow.

After some thought, you might need to take at least 12 mgs a day. Do you have strips or pills. Strips are easy to fold and cut or tear.

Go read here....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1391
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:10 am

Gator, welcome to the pit of misery, dilly dilly. Suboxone is a very difficult drug to stop at high doses and it is a very slow process of tapering down. If I were you and knew what I know now, I would go back to oxys and taper with those but it's dangerous to suggest that to someone who doesn't have some serious discipline, however it's also dangerous to take 56mg of suboxone to get energy and through the difficult times. We all know it too well but it's a bottomless pit and the more you reach the further you have to just to get the same result. Oxys are a short acting opiate, 4 hour half life, meaning a 100mg dose only takes about 1 day for the body to break it down to 1mg left. When you wake up the next day, most of your opiate receptors were wiped clean overnight and the body has had to function with no/low opiates for a portion of the night. A 56mg dose of suboxone will take over 2 weeks for the body to break down to 1mg. And remember that during those 2 weeks you are constantly taking more suboxone so it's just backloading, your brain never gets a break, the receptors are always saturated and the body gets no down time at all from opiate induced function and that's why I believe subs cause more long term effects and why they are so much harder to get off.

Thing of it is though, you can't keep spiking for energy and expect to taper, it will never happen. The only way to get off is to get your body used-to (comfortable) taking less and less over a period of time. With suboxone it's a slug-pace. How much oxy were you comfortable taking on a daily? You could probably cut the taper in half by using oxy and the misery by half of that, dilly dilly. But you'd have to be disciplined.

The whole key is to any taper is to take at least as possible to function, no massive spikes and to accept feeling good is a luxury that can't be filled by prescription unless you want to also deal with the increasing side effects and everything else that comes with it. Take what you need, spread it out as much as you can and try not to stimulate yourself with large doses. I'm not saying oxy is the way to go but I would say consider it. Suboxone tapers from large doses are long, slow and really take a toll. I got stuck on them for 7 years, been off 8 months, wish I would have done it 5 years ago but hindsight is always 20/20. I probably only really started wanting to get off them after 3 or 4 years but then it took another 3 years to actually get off them. Fucking insane, 3 years after all the talking myself up, thinking about quitting, trying to taper, moving forward and backward, getting down to a decent dose, then it all just begins again over and over until you're at a "low dose" and feel comfortable or tired enough to jump. It's grueling because of it's length. It probably sounds crazy but it's the way I would go. Keep posting, you'll get a lot more input in upcoming days from several people.

One thing I would definitely do, change your doctor. Find one who isn't trying to convince you to stay on suboxone rest of your life.
Sub4Sevenyrs
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:31 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:06 am

Might be hard finding a doctor who isn’t a scumbag (apologies to you sdd)....lol..
Seriously though, I think one of the main reasons sub prescribing doctors don’t suggets people taper and get off is that they receive no training on this from b.r. The manufacturer tells the drs that sub maintenance is a life long proposition, and so just like that, basically no one gets off sub following dr orders.. it simply isn’t set up for people to discontinue use.
That’s why we are here... there is a way, it’s just slow and brutal but there is a way
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby Martin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:59 am

Mike
Welcome! Wow I am amazed that you can take that much sub without any negative side effects. I think we all
have tried to get a buzz off of it at one point, most feel nothing over a certain amount. Personally,
anything over 10mg gives me a painful headache and turns my stomach. Maybe if you are immune to these
side effects it will make your journey easier, Maybe not, everyone is different. Well, I do know you are one tough MF'r so I think you can take the punches suboxone can throw. Nice to meet ya! Gator-Mike? Florida?
Benzo Free June 2015
Sub Free Dec 2015 For about a year
Back on Sub June 2017, 8mg a day
Tapering @ 3mg a day
User avatar
Martin
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:35 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby cheeps » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:28 pm

Gator....here are two threads that talk about the cons of sub. In order for you to get started on this journey, you need to get blazing fucking mad....not so much at yourself, but to the VA Drs or shrinks that didn't tell you what this shit could really do. Getting mad at big pharma is better because they marketed this stuff as basically non addictive and saw the potential for billions in their pockets. They find every way they can to change it when the patents expire so they can continue to rake in billions. The government has been hawking it to returning vets like you because it's the answer to their silly prayers on how to fix your body for your return to society and get vets off the short term opies because the DEA sez so. :evil:

If they had offered you methadone, would you have taken it? Methadone is physically challenging to get off of but with what I know today....I'd take it over sub, that being said..... both are full of long term issues. Those two work on different brain receptors and that makes the difference.

So....I'm giving you a crash course in why you need to get off or mitigate issues if you decide to stay on it. But more than anything, I want you to know the truth of what can happen when the honeymoon is over. I think you are tough enough for this....I think you will eventually make a decision you can live with. Just don't beat yourself up about information you should have been presented with....your dr is simply doing what he was trained to do....big pharma trained them to get people off short acting opiate (SAO) by putting you on a long acting opiate (LAO). It does offer stability and it's harder to get high. One hell of a patch job though and there haven't been long term studies on buprenorphine. So they hand it out like candy....it's the miracle drug of the early 21st century and a godsend.... :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: :thumbdown:

Get mad at big pharma for being greedy bastards.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3083

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3416
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby Annalo57 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:26 pm

Hi GatorMike. I just wanted to say welcome!!! I'm doing a long slow taper from 2mg. I was a heroin user. I've been on Sub for 13+ years but i never abused it. Early on I was on about 16mg but it never made me feel good, it just kept me from being sick, so i got it as low as I could just taking the 2mg tabs and now I'm doing the liquid taper. . I'm a bit blown away by the amounts you've been taking. All I can say is that Cheeps is extremely knowledgeable and just plain awesome so answer all her questions. I can't imagine everything you've been through, but it seems to me you've got the strength you need, now you need to learn real patience. This is going to take time.

Btw, I had kept my Sub use from my husband and kids for pretty much the entire time, until I started my taper, then I told them. After my feelings of shame subsided a bit, it felt really good to have it out in the open. I know you're feeling badly about your past choices. Time to put that all on the shelf for now. Begin by getting as much info from this forum as you can. Figure out how much Sub you need to be stable for a while and don't deviate. Then you can formulate a plan for a taper. It is very doable.

Anyway, I'll shut up now, but once again, welcome, and don't be discouraged. You made it to SubSux, which is a fairly miraculous place. Glad you found us. :)

Best,
Anna
Annalo57
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby cheeps » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:28 am

Hey gator, I want you to know that even though I've thrown you some ugly info on Sub, it's entirely doable. Our reputation for years has been the horror Sub site on the web.

But....we've come a long way in learning how to help peeps. We've had much success in mitigating issues. Once you get past the FEAR of doing this....because it is scary to read about, you'll be fine.

You may need a different doctor, do you use the VA?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby Rascal123 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:00 am

Hi Mike I'm new too and determined to get off bupe. Good luck. I went from 16 to 12 to 8 very easily, currently on 6mg now and with the help this great site offers I aim to be clean. from experience Id trust what is said here over any doctor!!!!!!
Rascal123
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:33 pm

Re: Hey there...I'm new to the site

Postby m4zer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:45 am

Welcome to the board!

Abusing the sub in crazy high doses to numb anxiety before a big presentation is obviously not a great idea for a lot of reasons (as I'm sure you already know) and is a really bad habit to get into. That's addictive thinking 101, that you need this to get through certain situations in life. You're going to have to address that line of thought at some point because it will fuck up your path coming off of it.

You're not alone in having done this kind of thing though, I think practically everyone has spiked their dose when they were going through something stressful, or knew ahead of time. I've done it myself tons of times, at holidays, meeting up with new people, stressful day at the job, etc. If you want to start getting off I think your big first step will just be stabilizing on a dose and doing your damnedest to stay there. You might still spike up your dose at some point, shit happens, the point is to maintain a certain dose as the focus going forward. If you can get by on 8mg a day for a few days I would say try that as a starting point, stabilize well before you have a big presentation so that you're adjusted to it for a while and either don't take extra before the presentation or take your 8mg dose right before it. If the anxiety is so bad you can't do your presentations without it you should talk to your doc about a low dose of anxiety meds, don't be using sub for that, there's better tools for the job.
Sub free since 12/26/2017
User avatar
m4zer
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:11 am


Return to Sub Sux

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests