Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

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Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:13 am

Hi all,

48 year old Newbie here. I was seriously injured 9 years ago and had been on 90mg of oxy a day until I said F it moved to 8mg of sub in July of 2017 with the objective to taper and get off opiates. I have been attending an outpatient program for the last 2 months that has tapered me down to 1mg sub per day, which makes me feel tremendous and super productive. Everything was a piece of cake until now. My doc wanted me to jump off at the 1 mg point with the assist of clonidine. I tried 2 days ago and of course after 36 hours the withdrawal symptoms were so bad I had to take another 1mg. I go see him tomorrow and he told me today he wants to taper down to .5mg for a week and then jump off. I'm scared shitless that this is not going to work. I have stockpiled six 8 mg strips so I probably have plenty to taper at a slower rate. It just pisses me off these doctors think it is easy to jump off when it obviously isn't.

I'm looking for advice on what else I should do so it doesn't feel like I have bugs in my spine. I'm exercising, eating well, drinking a ton of water and taking a lot of vitamins. I'm fortunate as I retired early and therefore don't have to go to a job during the detox, but I want to be as "normal" as possible as I have a 11 year old daughter that I have part time after my divorce last year.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby SmottleB » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:43 am

Start cutting those fuckers. An easy way is to cut 2 strips into 16, 0.75mg pieces and 16, 0.25mg pieces. Then cut 1 strip into 16, 0.5 mg pieces. Taper from .75 down to .25 every 2 weeks. There is some extra in there if deviation is required. That is what I did. Then from there I cut 1 strip into .2’s. Which is 40 pieces. I used the .2’s to get to .15 then .1. It took 3.5 months in total. I did it! It wasn’t easy, but I am thankful now. Stay strong!

Smots
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby cheeps » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:01 am

Listen to the man...he just got off!!!

Talk to your Dr about getting some gabapentin or flexiril to help...taper MORE and read here to understand what tapering and listening to your body entails. At these lower doses, you must drop carefully, slowly and mindfully....you want to do NO MORE than a 20% reduction every 10 days or so. Everyone is different....as you'll see here. Smots got really low because he was patient and listened to his body.

Yes, the dr is clueless but don't challenge him....let him think you are following his protocol until your final visit...then try to educate him for the sake of those that come behind you. Sweet talk him and See if you can get him to prescribe the 2mg strips...if he doesn't, you can still work with the eights...many have.

Use any comfort meds sparingly...go here for some insight and opinion.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2977

Welcome to SS...T-Rock...you are in the right place. There are many helpful peeps here...
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:34 pm

SmottleB wrote:Start cutting those fuckers. An easy way is to cut 2 strips into 16, 0.75mg pieces and 16, 0.25mg pieces. Then cut 1 strip into 16, 0.5 mg pieces. Taper from .75 down to .25 every 2 weeks. There is some extra in there if deviation is required. That is what I did. Then from there I cut 1 strip into .2’s. Which is 40 pieces. I used the .2’s to get to .15 then .1. It took 3.5 months in total. I did it! It wasn’t easy, but I am thankful now. Stay strong!

Smots


Thank you so much for your advice! and yours as well cheeps. I was pleasantly surprised today that my doc gave me 10 2mg strips and said taper as slow as your body will allow and he will support me - I was stunned. I am already on Lyrica as my injury was nerve related so that should help, although they want me to taper Lyrica soon. He also agreed to give me flexeril and clonidin. I also have some xanax left over but I have heard to stay off the benzos.

I was reading the Board until 4am last night as I couldn't sleep - very informative stuff here. I really appreciate all the advice and support as I'm going to need it!
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby cheeps » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:47 pm

Very good news! How much lyrica are you on? Have you ever reduced it before? I've taper it twice....2nd time right now.

I drop very carefully but have intrusive suicidal thoughts for 36 hours after each drop. I'm used to it now but it was really fucked up at first. That is the main reason for the black box warning on it...But I've never read how it potentuates...just that it does cause issues. Oh hell yeah....

So I'm very curious and hope to learn how it treats you. I've continually informed my Dr about how bad it is to taper as I don't want others in his practice to be unaware. He does listen to me...well, on this he'd fucking better. :banghead: . Right now I'm down to 50mgs twice a day...was on 150 three times a day. :punchballs:

Inn just glad he relented....educate the fucker as best you can....the folks behind thou will benefit.
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:16 pm

I was on Lyrica 150mg three times a day. I actually tapered down to 150 once a day before I started tapering sub, but I didn't tell the doc just in case I needed to go back up so I have extra. I'm hoping the 150 dose helps with thee sub withdrawls but who knows? My taper off sub has been fairly "easy" until now. I take my 1mg sub around 6 at night so I can try to sleep (try is the key word), so at 4pm my time right now I'm hurting pretty bad.

My outpatient place is pretty cutting edge in that when I go, like I did today, I do an hour of PT, 1 hour of Yoga, 1 hour of acupuncture. Best thing is it is paid for by workers comp as my injury was work related (I actually should be dead according to many doctors - so I got a second chance, which is why I want to get of this shit so freaking bad).

I'm just so fired up and driven to kill this thing! It is nice to read the experiences people have as other than an old girlfriend I don't know anyone who has had to deal with this. She was able to get off of fetinol cold turkey (with the help of oxy), then from oxy to sub and she jumped sub after 2 months with very little side effects other than she is crazy, which I think she has been that way her whole life. She got me form oxy to sub and watching her I thought this would be a piece of cake - now I know that isn't true.
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby cheeps » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:40 am

Well, this sucks...but your age isn't in your favor on sub jumps. I'm guessing her two months were on a lower dose than 8. Don't know if she tapered either. Eh....what she did doesn't matter now. Hope shes not more crazy.

If you decide to go back up on the lyrica, you might consider busting those 150's in half. Make piles on a plate. Start with 75 three times a day. Just a suggestion to stay low....that shit gives me the creeps now that I've experienced the bullshit during several drops.

Please understand that while you want off now...tapering down to .125 may be in your best interest. Whatever you decide....you are always going to hear me say shit like, PATIENCE. I'm sure others will tell you the same...

You can walk off this shit....you've been on seven months though. After two months, its got its hooks into you.....you just experienced that.

The protocol we give peeps in your seven month in, 48 year old shoes is no more than a 15% reduction every 10 days. that's a little more conservative than my first post but it really comes down to how much discomfort you can push through.
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:53 am

Thanks for the info Cheeps - I really appreciate it. First of all, can you give me more insight on what the Lyrica withdrawals are like? I had no issue going from 450 a day to 150 (at least that I noticed). I have some 75's already if I do decide to go back up before jumping.

My girlfriend was on 8mg strips but she tapered from day one and is a 40 year old physical specimen. One thing she couldn't kick were the benzos. She is a xanax addict in a really bad way which I think probably helped her get off the sub. She also drank a lot during the taper - I was really worried she might die for a while but she is tough as nails.

I know age isn't on my side but if it helps I'm in pretty good physical shape and I have been able to keep working out during this taper. I'm trying to eat really healthy and take care of myself in preparation of what I know will be coming down the pipe. I was a pretty heavy drinker unfortunately but I am cutting that out until I'm off this shit.

Tonight was a rough one for me until I had my 1mg. Something I think is weird is I do get the high after taking 1 mg but I don't remember getting any high on 8mg or less. Maybe the drinking was masking it? I don't know.

It really helps to read the stories from everyone. I'm going to kill this thing someway somehow!
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:59 am

cheeps wrote:Well, this sucks...but your age isn't in your favor on sub jumps. I'm guessing her two months were on a lower dose than 8. Don't know if she tapered either. Eh....what she did doesn't matter now. Hope shes not more crazy.

If you decide to go back up on the lyrica, you might consider busting those 150's in half. Make piles on a plate. Start with 75 three times a day. Just a suggestion to stay low....that shit gives me the creeps now that I've experienced the bullshit during several drops.

Please understand that while you want off now...tapering down to .125 may be in your best interest. Whatever you decide....you are always going to hear me say shit like, PATIENCE. I'm sure others will tell you the same...

You can walk off this shit....you've been on seven months though. After two months, its got its hooks into you.....you just experienced that.

The protocol we give peeps in your seven month in, 48 year old shoes is no more than a 15% reduction every 10 days. that's a little more conservative than my first post but it really comes down to how much discomfort you can push through.


I'm also going to take your advice and go down 15% every 10 days. That means I reduce this Friday. I'm ok being patient. With my bad math I have enough sub to do that and get down to .125 and my doc and outpatient rehab will continue to help me.

Thanks again! T
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:47 pm

So this no sleep thing is real!! How the F am I supposed to function at even a 50%$ level with 2 hours of sleep a night. Today is last dose of 1mg. Down to .85 tomorrow!! I'm going to kill this thing!!
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby Eyedotz » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:28 pm

Hi T,
Nice to meet you... one thing that may help you is split dosing. Take half your dose in the am and take the other half in the PM. It really helps when you are under 1mg... it kind of breaks up the highs and lows. Another thing that is super helpful with the strips... place it between your lower lip and gum line. Great absorption that way and you can talk!

The lack of sleep is the hardest part. Do not try to force it... it only makes it worse. Take naps when you can... I use to be able to take a nap for an hour or so, after dosing. If you can't sleep, just watch netflix. Listen to sleep music/rain storms on headphones. Deep breathing. Melatonin 5mg. Motrin is surprisingly helpful. Yes, Cheeps was right... patience is key. Keep yourself calm and just rest if you can.

There is nothing fun about tapering but please stick to a schedule. If you are determined to taper properly, don't let frustration get in the way. My motto is 'embrace the shitty' and come to terms that you will not feel great for a long time. Treat it like a 'new normal' and it will help you mentally. Time will pass... I promise you.

This place is a great place to vent and everyone is willing to help you through....

Please let me know if I can offer any assistance!
~Dotz
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby CatsMeow » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:54 pm

Welcome T. I'm so sorry to hear that your sleep is not good right now. Eyedotz gave you some great advice. Listen to it. You'll not find any better advice & truths than right here on SS. I'm 59 years old & currently tapering at 2.5 mg's. I've got a long way to go, but the help I've received here as held me together many times.

I just wanted to drop by & wish you the best on this journey to be off of subs. You're in the difficult area under 1 mg. But you can make it just as many before you have. Read here & you'll find the truth, and the truth shall set us free. The longer threads are the best to read. Try to stay away from the bad taper threads. They scared me & you don't need that right now.

Here's hoping that going to a twice per day dosing will even you out a bit & help with sleep too.

You can do this!

Cat
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:25 pm

Thanks so much Cat and Dotz. I'm going to do the twice a day taper. I went and bought some Melatonin and hopefully I can get some sleep.

I went for a run 2 hours ago and got a "runners high" I haven't had in years. Hopefully that's a good sign something naturally is working in my brain. It's gone now but that was a nice feeling for 90 minutes.

I can't express how much I appreciate the support from people in the last 48 hours. I have learned so much and once I kick this thing in the ass I'm going to help other people with our shared issue. There are so many lies out there. I was put on oxy from a bad accident impacting my nerves in my left arm. Come to find out opiates don't really do anything for nerve pain but my doc filled me script every month for 9 years with each visit lasting 90 seconds. That ass hole is going to have his day! My former gf told me about sub and I described her adventure in previous posts. My first sub doc said tapering would be a piece of cake. What a F up she is. My current docs are good but even they don't know what they don't know.

I will keep fighting and win. Each day is a day closer!
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:31 pm

And thank goodness for loud music!
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby cheeps » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:36 pm

What kind of music do you like? Many peeps that come here use music to get them thru this process. It's so personal sometimes and there's some GREAT tunes out their that address this pain.
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby T-Rock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:30 pm

I am a stuck in the 90's grunge guy for the most part. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Guns n Roses. I also like Stones, Beatles, Floyd. If its Rock / Alternative I usually like it.

I'm planning on going to Europe for a month starting June 10 to follow Pearl Jam and Foo Fighters around 9 different countries. My reward for kicking 10 years of this shit!
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:49 am

Wow.....I love foo foos, I had one cd in the car for five years or more...hardly EVER took it out of the holder. You will have an excellent time with THAT!!! Man....that sounds like an all time high musically and just a fantastic life experience coming up. Can we say JEALOUS?
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:46 pm

Wow, I'm super jealous too! :mrgreen: That sounds like a fantastic trip. What a wonderful way to reward yourself for being free of opy's/subs. A great thing to set your sights on during your low sub taper. Has your love of music come back? If so, do you remember at what dose that happened? I'm still waiting for it & it can't come soon enough. :shrug:
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby Eyedotz » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Cat - Good question on music...
I 'think' the love of music came back under 1mg... after that it steadily increased. I'm not sure if it was because I was tapering and I was grasping for anything that produced natural endorphins or because it just sounded better. It had a crazy effect on me under 1mg to maybe 3 months post sub.

I also found myself listening to different music altogether. I was always a huge fan of alternative/alternative folk (love Pearl Jam btw!) but after tapering and jumping I ended up discovering House music (or EDM/Deep House/Chill/Electronic) and I never went back. I often wonder if it's because I started a new chapter in my life. Music has a way of getting its hooks in you and it can be very connected with old emotions. I found it hard to listen to the stuff I use to because it brought me back to my 'using times'. SOOO I listen to different music now and it connects me to new memories/feelings. I could be completely full of shit but hey, that's how it is for me!

You will know when it comes back because you will certainly get chills...Bass is definitely awesome... I don't really get the chills anymore but I still spend at least half my day with headphones on! :shred: :shred: :shred: :shred: :shred: :shred: :shred:
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Re: Tapering Sub - my diary and any advice appreciated

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:33 pm

Wow thanks for that info Dotz! Okay, so I still got me some tapering to do to get my music back. That's okay. I know it's coming & I'm excited for that. You & your bass crack me up!!!
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