Need Support - My Jump

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Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:53 pm

Hi Everyone,

I am a 41 yr old male professional. A decade of playing around with pain pills led me to Suboxone. I have been taking subs for a year. Without subs, I am certain I would still be using pills. Subs helped me get my drug seeking behavior under control and put me back in the driver's seat. I had energy and focus for the first 6 months. I felt good all day not just for a couple of hours a day like I had using painkillers.

However, after the first 6 months, I started to notice changes. I am an extrovert but have become somewhat introverted. I overthink things. My sex drive sucks. I feel cloudy. I am numb. My drive has diminished. I know this is from the subs. It is the only variable that has changed. I am healthy (regular checkups), eat well, and exercise.

There is some good news. I always had a healthy fear/respect for the power of Suboxone. Therefore, I inducted at 1mg and stayed at .75mg-.5mgs almost the entire time. Recently, I have been at somewhere between .4mg-.33mgs or so. It is hard to be super exact with the pills.

I thought about a long taper, but I don't want to take sub anymore. I am done. So I want to jump. Tomorrow, I will do so. January 9th, 2018 will be the first day of the rest of my life. So after reading many threads here today, I registered. I was hoping some of you would help me through this. I figure I will need some advice/encouragement as I detox.

I don't know what to expect, but I plan to update this thread as much as possible to chronicle my journey. Thanks in advance for your support.

Best,
Tony
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:57 pm

I wanted to add. I do have some comfort meds including .125 Klonopin, .25mg Xanax, and beta blockers (Inderal). I do not want to use something like Kratom. I have tried it for kicking before, and it either made the symptoms worse or led back to opiate use.
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby cheeps » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:16 pm

Tony...Dude...welcome to SS!!

I think you'll be surprised at how well you are going to do. Please do post as much as you can. We need insight from a jumper like you! Damn...I'm really happy for you!
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:23 pm

Hey Tony, welcome. I commend you for your tenacity and drive. I’ve been tapering for almost a year and a half with lots of backsliding (I’m not the smoothest operator on this site haha) and after reading literally at least 100 case histories you’re the first person I can recall that kept their regular daily dosage as low as you have the entire time from induction. This will be a huge positive becasue a percentage of your opiate receptors have remained unsaturated. PET scans show around 6 mg daily is required to reach saturation and you’re so well below that it’s really great. With that said, any discomfort you’ll feel won’t come from saturation but habituation. But you know that I’m sure.

It’s taken me over a year to taper to your regular daily dose. Seems so strange to me, but again it’s really great for you. So, you’re still fairly young, active, good diet, no other heath issues, all huge. You are a constellation of positives. You’ll do great. You’re jumping out the first floor window and although it won’t be painless many people have jumped out of the 30th story and made it. My money is on you.

I do have to ask, just for my own curiosity, why cold turkey? Why not get a single box of 2 mg strips (30 films which is all you’d need) and play chop chop and decrease 10% every 10 days? Or use the liquid saturation method with your tablets and do the same kind of thing? Again, just curious. I respect your bold choice to jump. Personally, I’m a whimp, and 10 years at 16-32 mg a day so...ya know.

Bon Chance my man. Keep us posted.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.12 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Yup!
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby cheeps » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:58 pm

Tony, don't expect the worst....you probably won't feel much until 48 hours in...chills, aches...motrin is your friend. a little imodium for the trots. Drink a shit ton of good filtered water for the coming days and good diet is key. Fruits, veggies, some lean protein and very seeded and whole grain bread if you must.

The man that posted above knows more about good diet than your Dr. 8-)
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:38 pm

First off, nice to meet you Cheeps and Doc. I am so glad to have some people to talk with as I go thru this. I debated the taper I really did. That said, I have been getting headaches from the sub the last couple of weeks when I went from .5mg to .4-.33mgs. I also start to feel some light WDs at night and anxiety in the morning. The death by a thousand cuts thing sucks. I am definitely apprehensive about the jump, and I still have some sub if it gets unbearable.

That said, I am so looking forward to being able to say I am free. I totally get this forum. Believe me, I wanted to love sub forever. The first few months, I was all about maintenance. I almost felt like Bradley Cooper in Limitless. Subs made me feel like Superman. However, the back nine hasn't been too good. I definitely feel less social and driven. I really feel like I gave my 30s to opiates and now I want to give my 40s a chance at sobriety.

I am going to try and take it one hour at a time. One foot in front of the other so to speak.

Talk soon!
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
lil_tony
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:42 am

Well it has been roughly 24 hours since I took my final crumb. I woke up fine but now have body anxiety and irritability bc I drank my morning coffee. The problem is I have to drink caffeine or I get a headache. Kinda sucks. Any advice on this is appreciated. Maybe use Diet Coke or something weaker to keep anxiety down during my kick while still avoiding caffeine WDs? It's a wrinkle I didn't prepare for.

Well of course I have this little devil saying maybe you should taper and do a crumb today. However, if I did, I know I would still only feel good/ok some of the day and mentally feel like shit the entire day. Best to stay the course.

I hope everyone is having a good morning. Updates to follow.
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
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Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby SmottleB » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:01 am

Hey man, I gotta say you’re very brave!! But for me in the low numbers, I had to cut out everything. Caffeine, and alcohol, and wheat mainly. Diet and exercise has been very helpful. But other than that it was tapering. Tapering sucks. But if you could do some sort of taper. Even a month long. I tapered for 3 months. 2 months under .25 mg/day. Stopping fast opens the door for so many bad things. At least it did for me. Either way it’s hard work. Is there a support system at home?
6 year sub user
Sub free 1/8/2018
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:26 am

SmottleB,

I defintely hear you. I do have sub, so if this experiment fails miserably, I could re-establish a taper at .25mg. Right now, I am focused on trying to see if I can make it cold turkey. I know I have a fast metabolism (5'9" 145) and decent tolerance for pain. Plus, I do have benzos. The main problem will be the caffeine issue and just how long the legs are for this withdrawal. If I see progress after day 3-4 I will prob make it. If I don't, I may cave. Luckily for me, I don't drink as I know it is hard to give up one's vices.

As for support, I have my wife. She is here to help with day to day. Plus, I work for myself so I have the flexibility to adjust my schedule a bit.

Thanks for replying. I appreciate your feedback and advice immensely.
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
lil_tony
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:01 am

Another question for those in the know. I actually think the chills and being uncomfortable in my own skin is the worst symptom. Do these symptoms dissipate in 4-5 days? Or are these the last to go so to speak? If I feel ok in my body, I can handle anxiety and fatigue.

Thoughts?
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
lil_tony
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby cheeps » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:12 pm

Because of subs long half life...the worst wds come at 4-7 days. It's not like pills and heroin, which are short acting opiate (Sao). Sub and methadone are long acting opiates, (Laos) .the next few days will suck....expect it....hot showers, maybe a muscle relaxer, Imodium helps with heebie jeebies too...You can triple the dose once a day as long you are passing gas and pooping. Many report taking a plain stool softener with food during Imodium use.

Gotta run for now
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:46 pm

Cheeps,

I am curious about the Imodium. Are you saying I can take 3 of the bister pack tablets and it helps? I always thought you had to take 50 of them to get any help, and I couldn't see myself doing that. Let me know. I can run to a pharmacy to get some. Thanks for stopping by to reply.
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
lil_tony
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby cheeps » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:02 pm

You can take 12-20 mgs....don't they come in 2mg pills? Believe so....short term use of Imodium is fairly safe. It takes a while to kick in...a few hours....but it lasts longer than you expect. The cons are possible constipation, if taken long term, addiction. The pharma on it is that it and its old buddy kaopectate have opiate properties but they don't cross the brain blood barrier. You have to load up and take them for a few weeks to become dependent.

Peeps here have reported becoming dependent but they overdid it each day and stayed on it for weeks. There are threads here and other places that address it. But....for me, I found it safe for use every other day at 16mgs in one dose per day. I took it like that for maybe 10-14 days....so five to seven times. Then...I just stopped....didn't need it anymore. It helped me with all basic withdrawals, not just the shits.

If you search for it here....use terms

Imodium blood brain barrier loperamide
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:21 pm

Maybe this is my golden ticket to get over the hump. Those heebie jeebies suck!
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
lil_tony
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:25 pm

I have to be honest I am worried about tomorrow. The hours seem like weeks. I already have light symptoms. A few chills, feeling cold, lower back pain, etc. It is close to 36 hours but that isn't any progress. Ugh
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
lil_tony
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby cheeps » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:39 pm

Dont expect progress to feel good Tony....no shit....progress means getting withdrawal symptoms...it's a process everyone goes thru. What are you doing to stay busy? Can you work? Can you get out of the house? Sitting around waiting for the worst sucks ass. Go get a bunch of funny movies, candy, whatever food that you can eat thats half ass good for you and a jump rope.

I know you are thinking about that crumb...hey, no judgement here...but tough it out as long as you can. Consider it a test....you do have control over this so don't fear the unknown...it's just very uncomfortable bad ass flu with the wiggles. Or if I'm wrong about the nature of the physical, tell us what you are feeling....vent....you can say anything you want here....we get it.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby lil_tony » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:50 pm

Cheeps,

I already like your style - No BS. I am planning on working tomorrow morning from home and then going to the mall with the wife to keep busy. Sitting around the house today was a bad idea. I barely made it thru. The boredom and minutes going by so slow. The constant symptom checking.

I laughed when you mentioned that crumb. You know the addict mind. It has popped into my head a half a dozen times. Oh a tiny crumb is fine, it will help you glide to a softer landing. That's the narrative in my head.

On the bright side, I helped my daughter with her homework after school and gave her a bath. I also fell asleep for an hour (8-9pm). This never happens to me, but I took half a beta blocker and a .25mg Xanax. It def took the edge off.

Now, I plan to watch Shameless (dark comedy show) and go to bed. I know I will inevitably wakeup at 3am and kick around and feel anxiety. Oh the joys of WDs. You play, you pay. I wish I thought about that saying more deeply about a decade or so ago :)

Update to follow in the morning. 39 hours since last dose. Day 1 done.
Opiates for 10+ years (more on than off)
Suboxone for a year
Jumped at .4mg or so (1/8/18)

"Every dog has his day."
lil_tony
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:16 am

Hey Tony...If you want this badly enough you will make it through. It’s literally a Seal Team 6 level training type challenge and commitment time. Hell, I’d bet there’s actual Navy Seals that made it through all the ‘evolutions’ to go all the way but if somehow they could make it so they’d have to endure CTW from chronic .4 mg a day bupe use they’d pass all levels but that one...but then there’s those few who’d stare it down and dance with that devil until they were the last man standing. Time to be that man Dude. This will be at least on the list of the hardest things you’ve ever done.

When I was 38 years old I had my first pharmaceutical love affair. I had unfettered access so I was taking insane amounts of Oxycontin, always in a mortar and pestle (crushed to a fine powder) and was eating and or snorting 600-800 mg a day (and this was before any anti abuse matrix was added so it was only mechanical barriers, so crushed = pure). This was in addition to tons of injectable Demerol and Dilaudid and other exotic opiates (if you really want to decimate your life and your body become BFFs with junky anesthesiologists, trust me). Anyway, this level of use went on for 2 years. No one knew the depth of my problem. Anyway, an offer comes in, a once in a life time opportunity, becasue I still look good on paper they recruit me. So a month later I moved from Washington to New Jersey to start a 2 year residency program. I drove there (wasted of course) got there in the evening, was shown to a very nice apartment and told where to be the next morning. I went to work that next day already feeling the withdrawals already kicking in. I had arrived with zero meds, not a crumb. And for what ever reason zero comfort meds, again - nothing. For one month I did not sleep. I literally would go home and start the parade of 5 or 6 hot showers through the night. Most nights were zero sleep, some I did get 10 minutes of passing out once or twice, but for a month that’s how I lived. I’m not writing this to discuss myself, I’m saying it can be done. What I learned back then is you have to except the feeling of withdrawal. You must say and KNOW this is the new normal, for now. And you have to cut yourself off from any and all possibilities of getting any crumbs, pieces or opiate of any kind really. If you want this badly enough then own it. Scream at the sky - ‘bring it bitch, do your worst and make it hell becasue I’m pissed off, locked and loaded. And flush any remaining sub down the toilet. Cut yourself off from any possibility of getting and taking any more or you’re setting a place at the table for use doubt, which is worse than the WD itself. My personal anecdote here was to inspire, not self-engrandize, I trust that’s clear.

You gotta Seal Team Six the fuck out of this shit or you’re gonna not only suffer but be plagued with the option of doubt. The worst.

If you were to decide once you truly realized how bad it is and can’t really work and didn’t arrange for a month beach front villa on Antigua and want to go back and do a taper we back you 100% for that, too. But the way I see you right now is being at the proverbial crossroads and the decision is the hardest part. Are you able to handle the world of hurt? Be angry toward it to face it down over how ever many days it takes (and I honestly don’t know how long that is, but it’s not 3-4 days of this I’m sure. Day 6 would be my guess to chart peak level of fun but how long that peak feeling persists is another mystery, at least to me. What is for sure is once you’re at peak discomfort every second puts you closer to Tony coming back home.

Anything you want badly enough you’ll get. I couldn’t do what you’re
doing. I tried, and made It a week )after some tapering) but at around 55 years old at the time
I was just too fried to handle it. But your like 40, excellent BMI, no comorbitities, so you can make it. But there’s not a prevailing theme of anger in your posts. And you’re still ‘holding’.

It’s crossroads time dude, flush that stash and end the ‘mental maybe’s’ or taper to .1 and walk. Either way you WILL be suboxone free very soon, of this I’m sure. How you get there is up to you.

I suggest you find your war face, and be angry, be very angry.

Best,

All of us.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.12 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Yup!
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby SubJumpa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:51 am

Fucking well said doc!! Shit that first few days after I jumped I would literally go into these spurts of shadow boxing!!! Fucking swinging at the air with every ounce of everything I had in me screaming fuck off to sub and my addiction to it!! In my mind I would imagine I was in the twelfth round of the biggest prize fight known to man.. Tony stay strong brother and keep swinging the reward is so worth it!!!

Best T
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Re: Need Support - My Jump

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:22 am

I love that imagine Jumppa...too cool!
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.12 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Yup!
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

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