Taper, Take Two

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:12 pm

Hang in there Martin. In a few days you'll be adjusted to your new dose and all will be right with the world. It just takes time. I hope you'll consider dropping in smaller amounts. From 3 to 2 was a pretty large drop my friend.

Hope you're traveling for fun this weekend!
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby cheeps » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:10 am

You would be FAR better off using probiotics, lactose free milk, and cut out as much sugar as you can. Save the Imodium for jump. That stuff can be addicting to your body.

When I used Imodium, and I have many times, I'd make sure I used stool softeners at the same time. But i was using big doses for wds. For simple shits, the probiotics will firm you up without causing issues. Do you feel that anything makes your IBS worse? Heavy Stress will do it for me too. When I went thru a rough patch in my marriage, it brought it on...but I was probably eating too many cookies too. Sugar kills my guts; that is my main irritant. Also...sugar substitutes like Splenda will mess with your guts.

Your digestive system is a sensitive entity and opies make it more so. :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:45 am

I re-read a lot of your thread today. I forget who started at which dose and other history related things. You wrote ‘I’m in no hurrry’ yet you’re really pushing the envelope. Hey, more power to you if you can deal but don’t forget your own words when and if you need them.

You also wrote you took smaller doses than you wanted to becasue it’s a pain to cut various size doses on the fly. Consider taking some time to cut doses in advance...and I mean months in advance. Make 7 or 10 days at each dose, if you make 10 and feel ready to drop at 7 you can just trim the 3 left over for future use. I know you know all this, I’m just encouraging you to pre-make your dose supply. This takes a lot of stress off you. It helped me...despite that I am the king of the ‘reverse taper’! I loved that term you coined by the way. I’m sure many of us have slowly lost ground by taking just a little more...and then a little more more...etc.

Suboxone tapering is tedious, no question. Having 6 weeks of not having to think about making the right size pieces is helpful.

Check in soon. You’re traveling??!!??
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Martin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Yeah...traveling. I am writing this on my phone...gotta keep it short. Cheeps-in my opiate free life I get IBS from eating veggies and fruit, my doctor now has me on a triglyceride diet, and the sub isn't doing its job down south......its tempting to take one immodium a day like i used to (for years) but i am goig toake your advice.
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Martin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:17 pm

Hey sdd! Thanks bud, my phone hates this board-i will talk to you soo.
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby CatsMeow » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:34 pm

You're getting some great advice here Martin. We all want to see you succeed! I also have gut issues. Cheeps & Doc know their stuff on this. Interesting that fruits & veggies cause you trouble. Sorry about that one. Must be tough. If you've consistently taken Immodium before I sure would stay away from it now.

As Doc said, I also pre-cut my doses. I got 2 1 week pill holders & only cut 1 week in advance (I dose 2x per day). But you could get 4 and do 2 weeks. It really helps to have it all set up for you in advance. Or I know it does for me. Even still, my sub taper runs my life. But at least I only have to deal with the dosing issue once per week. It really helps me.

Stay safe this weekend while traveling. I find it hard to be precise with meals when away from home. Hope your gut issues straighten themselves out very soon.
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Martin » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:50 pm

Rant deleted. This puts haste where there was none. This changes things.
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:14 am

Hey Martin. Sorry you deleted your rant. It's good to get things out, but I understand if it's just too much. What is putting haste where there was none? What is changing things?

You've just done a huge drop, so trouble is to be expected. But given time you should adjust. I hope you'll consider smaller drops in the future. Why suffer now, when you can feel much better if you take things a bit slower.

Hope you're okay today!
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Martin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:14 pm

Meh, its official, my insurance company no longer covers sub. I won't go without or anything. I can pay for it myself, I just don't want to.
I'll just have to eat it. I am angry because this is money I'd rather invest in my kids futures. Its just more motivation to quit, i will have to stop myself from trying to do it quickly to save money. Take care!
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:39 pm

Oh, I'm so sorry Martin. Now I understand your above post. Maybe you can appeal this decision. Its certainly worth a try.

Do the best you can to taper low & slow. Losing your insurance is a big deal & I wish this hadn't happened.
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:02 am

Dude I’m really sorry you have to deal with that. Not to cover suboxone is rare. I’m glad you’ll be OK either way. I had to cash only for a while when I was in between insurance companies and let things lapse. Not cheap but you’re pretty far down the road so it’s short term. Funny how they’ll pay 50,000 for rehab but not 700 for sub. This is probably a long shot but if you can get any doctor to write Belbuca for you for pain I bet they’ll cover that. Just a thought. It solves multiple problems. You just need an understanding doctor.

And just wondering how your dose is going...still on 2mg?
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Martin » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:23 pm

Thanks SDD- Ha Ha! I was daydreaming about booking a rehab in Sunny
Florida as revenge for not covering my Sub. It makes no
sense.

My next plan of attack is to see if my doctor
will prescribe generic bupe. It's cheap, and I can
pay for it myself with no complaints. It will also pave the
way for me to start Belbuca. If he'll prescribe Bupe,
He'll prescribe Belbuca!

It's a total clusterfux and I'm sick of dealing
with it. The only thing I know for sure
is that they won't pay for the RX I
just dropped off at the pharmacy
and if I want it, I can have it for the
low low price of 375.00 (for
2 boxes) No thanks, I'll wait to see my doctor.

I have enough 8mg strips to last me at least 2 months
without having to dip into my funds. So I am ok
as far as supply goes.

I'm doing good at 2mg! I think I have stabilized.
I have switched to liquid sub today, so I'm a little worried
that it's not absorbing as well as the strips,
I guess I'll know in a couple of days. I'm not planning
on dropping again for another week. And don't worry-
no more huge drops for me! From here on out no more
than 10%, 20% if I get brave.

Thanks so much for all you understanding and kind thoughts!
You all are the best! I mean the best!!!!
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby cheeps » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:46 pm

You can always blow dry yer mouth and stick a little piece of cotton under the tongue, just give yourself time to do it....no dashing in the bathroom or talking....as anna sez....shake well and squirt n go!

Also....don't overthink what you're getting....it will even out.
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Hey Martin, how are you doing on the 2 mg liquid bupe? Was it an easy transition? Do you feel you are getting the full bioavailability of 2 mg with this new method?

I was going to wait until 1 mg to start that. But now I may try to fight my insurance company for Belbuca under 1 mg.

Hope you're still feeling well on 2 mg! Or maybe you've dropped a bit?
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Annalo57 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:34 pm

Hey Martin. I know i have been woefully absent on your thread for some time. I'm not good with reading or typing for long periods of time. Once i get through my thread and a couple others I've been present on, I'm shot!! That being said, I think you're doing really really well. I am on the liquid taper too. I'm down to .17mg 2 x a day. I've been on liquid since about 1.5mg. I just wanted to get familiar with the process so I started liquid sooner than I needed to. I can only tell you that as a Sub user for somewhere around 13 years, that I haven't had any problems with the liquid. I actually take comfort in not knowing exactly how much I am getting. I'm fine with it. If I'm getting less that the actual dose, its a good thing. I am going to ask my Dr for Belbuca when I see him this month. Not because I think it will make a big difference in my dose or how I feel, but because it will be easier to make those really low doses and to be a bit more precise. Idk if precision is necessary at this point. So much about this is mental. But if there is a way to make it easier, I'm all for it.

Anyway, I'm just here to say that I think you're doing really really well. As taperers we sort of know at this point what to expect. So keep moving forward however you need to and soon you and i both will be at the EXIT door. What a glorious day that will be!!!

I may not post as much as some, but I'm with you 100% and a little more for good measure. Stick to your plan. Thats my basic philosophy as far as Sub tapers are concerned. As far as I can tell, there are no full blown Wds if you keep it slow and go low before you jump. I am familiar with full-blown Wds, so anything to avoid that is good by me. I'll take the anxiety, rls, insomnia, lead suit, lack of energy and motivation...all of it, as long as I'm not flopping around on the floor, and bouncing(literally) off walls.

So there you have it. My rare burst of energy. I'm glad it lasted long enough for me to post on your thread and say, "keep up the good work!"

Anna :banana:
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Martin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:08 pm

Thanks Ladies! You humble me beyond words.

Yeah Anna - I'm with you, I thought I better start getting myself accustomed
to the liquid method before I got down too low where you really
feel the drops. I'm doing really good. I haven't yet fully committed to the liquid taper.
Up till yesterday I would take the liquid in the morning and the film at night
because yeah, it's all mental and I felt like I wasn't getting as much
with the liquid. But I think I am finally getting used to it, yesterday
was the first day I did both doses with the liquid.

But I'm doing well at 2mg still. Stable. I'm long
overdue for a drop, so I will be doing that once I get a few
more days on the liquid plan. There is one complication. I have to do alot of traveling this spring.
I don't want to say I hate it, but I don't particularly enjoy it either. I'll just
have to make sure I'm stable....I might have to postpone some future drops until
I'm home-free this summer.
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby cheeps » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:30 pm

Martin...how many days at 2mgs?

Being on liquid is so much easier when it comes to drops. I like the way you have used the split dose to start the liquid!! Genius! Small changes give us the confidence to do this! WAY TO GO!!!! :cheers: :cheers:
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby CatsMeow » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 am

Good for you Martin! Staying on 2 mg's longer than planned so that you're adjusted & doing well. Now that's the way to do a sub taper. Low & slow. You've changed so much from your first post. You've developed patience and that will serve you well.

Best of luck with the liquid taper method. I'm excited to see how you do starting it at 2 mg's. Keep up the good work my friend!
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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Annalo57 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:39 pm

Hey Martin. I'm happy to hear you're doing we'll. Once you get accustomed to the liquid, you'll be fine. I'm glad you've been able to switch both your doses over. I've found it to be a very good method, in fact its going to save me from living the rest of my life on this shitty medication. Just keep moving forward and all will be well.

Keep the baby faith!!! Oops!!

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Re: Taper, Take Two

Postby Martin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:06 am

cheeps wrote:Martin...how many days at 2mgs?

Being on liquid is so much easier when it comes to drops. I like the way you have used the split dose to start the liquid!! Genius! Small changes give us the confidence to do this! WAY TO GO!!!! :cheers: :cheers:


Thanks Cheeps - it Kinda felt like I was cheating. I don't know why, it just did. I have been on 2 since at least January 18, so 2-3 weeks. I gotta start writing this stuff down! I'm really in no hurry to make another drop, but I am hoping to be low enough to eliminate the side effect of profuse sweating when the warmer weather comes - it ruins the summer months for me. I crank the AC and refuse to go outdoors.
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