I will succeed!

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: I will succeed!

Postby Mare » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:16 am

Damn man! You're so close!! I'm really proud of you. It makes me happy to see you succeeding here. I can tell you have really developed a sense of acceptance around the taper. Love to see that positivity shining through in your posts. It gives the rest of us hope to see you comfortable even in the home stretch. You'll win the gold medal in these Olympic games, I'd put money on it! SS Olympic Games 2018 Detox Champ!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby cheeps » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:30 am

SmottleB wrote:0.11 mg/1x day. And somewhat stable. Just about every drop has been the same. All of them have their challenges. For me, some drops were easier than others. My tell tale sign is dry mouth, eyes, and nose. If I’m leaking from every orifice, then I am tapering. After a few days on a steady dose the leaking will begin to dry. I stay there until I feel like it is doing more harm than good. The 2 week mark has been very accurate Is respect to being mentally capable of another drop. Under .25 mg, it has taken 16 or 17 days to be ready for the next drop.

All of this suffering (just a few hours a day) is training. I feel that you must re-train yourself to do the things you did on subs. Which was everything for me.

I feel like an Olympic athlete, training for years so that,for 2 weeks, you can be the best you possible. I’m gonna use this training soon. After reading more and more, I feel empowered, ready, and willing to complete this. Happy holidays to all here at SS. 2018 is gonna be a great year, I can feel it.



The title of your thread says it all. These are such powerful words.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby CatsMeow » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:09 pm

I have also found that some drops are easier than others. Really weird, but very good information. This is where the patience comes in. I also have "those symptoms" come that tell me if its okay to taper again. I also listen to my body & stabilize before my next drop. Thanks for the information that it may take 16 to 17 days to stabilize under .25 mg's. I will now be ready for that so that I don't get discouraged.

You are so doing this the right way. You're leading the way for many (including me)!

Keep up the good work. Great things are coming your way Smots.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:07 pm

Yeah when I started tapering I had the epiphany that I wanted it to be over and get clean. Then at .25 mg I had it again. At .11 I am kinda thinking the same thing. Just stop now and get it over with.. jump date 2017. Haha... not yet. 2018 is much more likely.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby CatsMeow » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:06 am

I really want it to be over too. But there's no doubt that my body & mind have other things in mind. It's so great the way you listen to your body & adjust to each drop before dropping again. And that my friends is what we call patience! It's your best friend now. 2018 is going to be your year for sure.

I'm excited for you Smots! Keep up the great work. Hope you're feeling well today!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:20 pm

Actually feeling like crap. Chest cold, congestion real bad in the morning. It has gotten a little better so far today. It’s probably WD related. Congestion makes me nauseous, then eating isn’t so fun. I have been smoking quite a bit more MJ, it helps with appetite, and a.m. nausea/gags. Other than that it’s a time occupier. Weather here has been shit. No sun for a few days now. Cold, rain. Not pretty. Hope it all clears soon.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby CatsMeow » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:57 pm

So sorry you're not feeling so well today. I also agree that the congestion is WD related. I get it too. Plus the fact that its gotten better today. I also have problems with nausea. I've been treating that with Alka-Seltzer Heartburn & Gas Relief Chews. It does help some. I'm still searching for something better to treat my nausea with.

I try to force myself to eat even if I don't feel like it. I always feel better if I can get something good on my stomach.

We're also having cold & rainy weather here too. Gets kind of depressing, but the sun will shine again for both of us! Keep hanging on Smots. It's going to be worth it in the end.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:08 am

Ok that was definitely not WD. I have had a terrible fever and cough to boot. Maybe the flu? What a reminder of how bad just being sick can feel. That was horrible. That was by far the worst I have felt in a few years. I did not eat anything at all yesterday. I kinda feel like if I made it through that then dumping sub might be a little easier.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby CatsMeow » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:00 am

Sorry you're feeling so sick Smots. I haven't had a cold or fever in years. I had the flu when I was much younger & it was so bad that I've never forgotten it! Now that's bad flu!

I hope you can eat something today. You will feel better if you can.

Take good care of yourself & keep up the good work on the sub taper.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:17 pm

When your body is detoxing and has gained some ground, like in your case for sure whereby your brain is contending with and metabolizing much less of one of the most potent chemicals we’ve ever synthesized, that extra energy will be diverted to start doing other repairs and physiological house cleaning. The upper respiratory illness you just went though was particulate matter being expelled and weakened cilia getting a boost of energy to kick out some more toxins. People try to ‘cure’ or ‘treat’ a cold when the cold IS the cure...the cold IS the treatment...the fever IS the surgery....well, you get it. This is called: The Law of Vital Economy

The take away here is best illustrated when people quit smoking cigarettes (long term smokers). Months after they stop they get sick, sometimes real sick. I’ve seen people blow out blood vessels in their eyes, vomit bile and all kinds of crazy symptoms, and their labs don’t make sense for a while. They’re doing some major house cleaning. All the energy the body has to use to deal with the 2000 chemicals in cigarettes is now free to be used for other homeostatic imbalances. It take a lot of vital energy to process buperenorphine and get off of it. Everyone thinks getting off opiates cause an increase of mucous...again, it’s the opposite, the whole time your on sub/opis your body wants to create mucous to expel particulates and other respiratory toxins (the largest organ system for toxic elimination in the human body by the way). Usually it’s just a short cough here and there and maybe some lung cheese comes out. So it’s less noticeable. But when all the sudden you’ve finally freed up a ton of vital energy you’re gonna get symptoms...and as much as they suck embrace them...for everyone of the 3 trillions cells in your body, each with more intellectual power than a Cray Super Computer, is 100% devoted to your well being and survival. So that respiratory illness you just went through could have easily become small cell carcinoma (a very bad actor) if all the crap you just expelled never got the energy it needed to make an exit. Here’s the basic formula for chronic disease (cancer, lymphoma, hear disease, most organ diseases, most autoimmune diseases, etc): IRRITATION = CHRONIC IRRATATION = INFLAMATION = CHRONIC INFLAMATION = DYSPLASIA = METAPLASIA = CHRONIC ILLNESS

Anyway, I did a 2 year residency at one of the only hospitals that treated lifestyle born illnesses. Comorbitities of obesity (hypertension, diabetes etc X 100) smoking cessation, autoimmune diseases....etc. we’d place everyone on a health promoting diet and basically 100% of patients would get much sicker than they were when we admitted them. My lead clinician during rounds would ask each patient how they were feeling today, and the worse they felt, the more symptoms they had, the worse their labs, and the sicker they were, the happier he was! They’d say, “I feel 10 times worse” and his response every time: EXCELLENT! We got 99% of all Type II diabetics off insulin and all oral medication. We got about 75% of all patients off all medication. It’s becasue the amount of energy it take to process a bad diet is 100s of times more than a clean diet. It’s exacly why you got sick...I mean well...when you got more vital energy. This is also the precise mechanism of PAWS.


By the way...just so you don’t think this is some Shaman Vood-Doo quackery we published many articles in peer reviewed journals, legislated and changed laws and health care policy and had drugs removed from the USP. We also changed the food pyramid.

Anyway...you’re sick because you’re well-er.

The ultimate test of how healthy you are: go 72 hours without any food...drink a couple liters of pure water each day. If you don’t have any symptoms (including hunger which is NEVER felt in the stomach, hunger in the stomach is addiction not true hunger, true hunger is only felt in the mouth and throat...I published a peer-reviewed study in this where n=650 and p<.05 for you science geeks).

Knowing pathology, having seen just about everything terrrible disease there is at some point, and knowing true health care and having such major problems myself has caused me to be 1000 times better doctor than I ever would have been. It cured my Asburgers and took someone with a shit load of IQ and like zero EQ and made me human.

I should like...you know...go back to work some time and you know like...cure people and stuff. For now I’ll stay in bed feeling sorry for myself and hating myself for forming addictions. I don’t want to be human anymore, it’s too hard.

Lastly, and I swear this is the last thing, I believe with all my scientific heart, that a long slow taper (and by long I mean a year or more) even if you do a bit of dose see-sawing (who me, never!) you will have markedly reduced PAWS. It’s still a hypothesis but I have tapered off Fentanyl, Oxycontin etc etc many times and had PAWS in direct proportion to the length of the taper. I believe the same applies to bupe. Some will disagree with me but many people who’ve done > 1 year tapers report comparatively less PAWS than someone who tapers a few months, not at all, or tapered but still jumped off a high dose (my best guesstimate is .25 mg is a threshold dose). If I’m right, and I’m always right, about everything, all the time, period, this is really good news for you Mr. .01 mg. Do you think I might still have a touch of Asburger’s?
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.1 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Awww you betcha!
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby CatsMeow » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:17 pm

SDD this is an absolute wealth of information. You've explained it in a way that's relatively easy to understand. It's totally opened up my eyes to what's going on with a long slow taper. I was trying to push it just a bit, but I'm going to stop that right now. I will not drop my dose until I am completely adjusted to my current dose.

I'm also going to watch everything that I eat. I've done pretty well with that, but there's a lot of room for improvement. BTW I'm currently at 2.75 mg's & have been tapering since May 6, 2017 starting from 16 mg.

I've always thought that becoming adjusted to each taper was critically important. Now I see that that is exactly the thing to do.

Again, thank you for this information. My eyes are much more open to the reality of my long slow sub taper. My plan at this point is to jump around .06 to .03. That should help to reduce PAWS. Correct?
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:14 pm

Well said. Maybe only a touch of Asperger’s. It’s ok in my book.

So I was taking only 0.1 mg or so. But yesterday and today I took about .15mg or maybe more, trying to combat the sickness. It didn’t help. It did suppress the cough, but as SDD said above, and the doc I saw today said, the cough is there to get rid of the bad shit.

I have tried to quit sub before at around .25mg and paws was the worst. Acute WD’s were minimal to non existent. Obviously it could have been worse, but it was bad enough that I got back on. This time I hopefully mitigate the first few months. Hopefully.
Last edited by SmottleB on Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby cheeps » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:54 pm

Just gradually get back down...I don't blame you for spiking. My holy non existent GOD.....I know you must feel horrible.....but I so appreciate what SVDD just posted. The man is fantastic and if I ever get the meet him, I'll kiss his feet. While I'm so sorry he's here....I feel like we are sooooo lucky and I'm grateful that he can tell us these things.

Smots....just coddle yourself and maybe the next few days will show improvement.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby CatsMeow » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:29 pm

Hey Smots how are ya? I know you were feeling ill & having some problems. I sure hope you're feeling much better now. You're doing so great & are so close now. Hope you drop by & let us know how you are.
Cat
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:33 pm

Alrighty. I am feeling much better. Almost like a new man! I legitimately almost skipped my dose today. On purpose. I was feeling really well in the morning and did some things without my usual early morning dose. But, before work, I took one of the smallest pieces I had. Maybe .05 maybe bigger.

I had gotten back down to 0.1 mg 1x/day after the 2 days of spiking. I don’t believe the 2 days of spiking had any negative effects. Like a setback, or raising tolerance. Hopefully tomorrow will be just as exciting. I was ready to skip today. That was exciting. Anyway, this time, I think everything is gonna work out just fine.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:46 pm

smots....*I saw this on another thread* " For me dosing At 0.1 mg of an 8mg strip, the bupe seems to be pretty damn even."

I'm trying to figure out if you are on one tenth of one mg or one tenth of an 8mg strip....cause if its the latter, thats .8 mg.

What exactly do you have? what are you working with?

Glad you are feeling spritely...just want to figure out how low you are and how to get you lower more evenly.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby SmottleB » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:30 am

Definitely 0.1mg. 1/10 of 1 mg. For sure. All I have ever had or even have seen are 8 mg. I am currently using strips. Years ago I could only get the pills. I believe it was the pills that helped create the addictive behaviors. Strips are much better at creating better habits and less of an addicting behavior.
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:46 am

Subverted DietDoc wrote:When your body is detoxing and has gained some ground, like in your case for sure whereby your brain is contending with and metabolizing much less of one of the most potent chemicals we’ve ever synthesized, that extra energy will be diverted to start doing other repairs and physiological house cleaning. The upper respiratory illness you just went though was particulate matter being expelled and weakened cilia getting a boost of energy to kick out some more toxins. People try to ‘cure’ or ‘treat’ a cold when the cold IS the cure...the cold IS the treatment...the fever IS the surgery....well, you get it. This is called: The Law of Vital Economy

The take away here is best illustrated when people quit smoking cigarettes (long term smokers). Months after they stop they get sick, sometimes real sick. I’ve seen people blow out blood vessels in their eyes, vomit bile and all kinds of crazy symptoms, and their labs don’t make sense for a while. They’re doing some major house cleaning. All the energy the body has to use to deal with the 2000 chemicals in cigarettes is now free to be used for other homeostatic imbalances. It take a lot of vital energy to process buperenorphine and get off of it. Everyone thinks getting off opiates cause an increase of mucous...again, it’s the opposite, the whole time your on sub/opis your body wants to create mucous to expel particulates and other respiratory toxins (the largest organ system for toxic elimination in the human body by the way). Usually it’s just a short cough here and there and maybe some lung cheese comes out. So it’s less noticeable. But when all the sudden you’ve finally freed up a ton of vital energy you’re gonna get symptoms...and as much as they suck embrace them...for everyone of the 3 trillions cells in your body, each with more intellectual power than a Cray Super Computer, is 100% devoted to your well being and survival. So that respiratory illness you just went through could have easily become small cell carcinoma (a very bad actor) if all the crap you just expelled never got the energy it needed to make an exit. Here’s the basic formula for chronic disease (cancer, lymphoma, hear disease, most organ diseases, most autoimmune diseases, etc): IRRITATION = CHRONIC IRRATATION = INFLAMATION = CHRONIC INFLAMATION = DYSPLASIA = METAPLASIA = CHRONIC ILLNESS

Anyway, I did a 2 year residency at one of the only hospitals that treated lifestyle born illnesses. Comorbitities of obesity (hypertension, diabetes etc X 100) smoking cessation, autoimmune diseases....etc. we’d place everyone on a health promoting diet and basically 100% of patients would get much sicker than they were when we admitted them. My lead clinician during rounds would ask each patient how they were feeling today, and the worse they felt, the more symptoms they had, the worse their labs, and the sicker they were, the happier he was! They’d say, “I feel 10 times worse” and his response every time: EXCELLENT! We got 99% of all Type II diabetics off insulin and all oral medication. We got about 75% of all patients off all medication. It’s becasue the amount of energy it take to process a bad diet is 100s of times more than a clean diet. It’s exacly why you got sick...I mean well...when you got more vital energy. This is also the precise mechanism of PAWS.


By the way...just so you don’t think this is some Shaman Vood-Doo quackery we published many articles in peer reviewed journals, legislated and changed laws and health care policy and had drugs removed from the USP. We also changed the food pyramid.

Anyway...you’re sick because you’re well-er.

The ultimate test of how healthy you are: go 72 hours without any food...drink a couple liters of pure water each day. If you don’t have any symptoms (including hunger which is NEVER felt in the stomach, hunger in the stomach is addiction not true hunger, true hunger is only felt in the mouth and throat...I published a peer-reviewed study in this where n=650 and p<.05 for you science geeks).

Knowing pathology, having seen just about everything terrrible disease there is at some point, and knowing true health care and having such major problems myself has caused me to be 1000 times better doctor than I ever would have been. It cured my Asburgers and took someone with a shit load of IQ and like zero EQ and made me human.

I should like...you know...go back to work some time and you know like...cure people and stuff. For now I’ll stay in bed feeling sorry for myself and hating myself for forming addictions. I don’t want to be human anymore, it’s too hard.

Lastly, and I swear this is the last thing, I believe with all my scientific heart, that a long slow taper (and by long I mean a year or more) even if you do a bit of dose see-sawing (who me, never!) you will have markedly reduced PAWS. It’s still a hypothesis but I have tapered off Fentanyl, Oxycontin etc etc many times and had PAWS in direct proportion to the length of the taper. I believe the same applies to bupe. Some will disagree with me but many people who’ve done > 1 year tapers report comparatively less PAWS than someone who tapers a few months, not at all, or tapered but still jumped off a high dose (my best guesstimate is .25 mg is a threshold dose). If I’m right, and I’m always right, about everything, all the time, period, this is really good news for you Mr. .01 mg. Do you think I might still have a touch of Asburger’s?


We are lucky to have this guy around (SDD) that’s a brilliant post. Hope ur current taper symptoms are somewhat bearable...the dysphoria of mild detox is what breaks me down more then the physical stuff
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby cheeps » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:31 am

That's good to hears smots....for a minute you had me worried. You are fucking killing it!
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: I will succeed!

Postby CatsMeow » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:56 am

Great news Smots! .1 is so unbelievably low. You're almost there. Looking forward to the day that you're free. I can see it just in the distance. :thumbup: Keep hanging on!
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