Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:26 pm

Your taper schedule is genius, gives your body a chance to acclimate to the new dose while you keep taking the old one, wish I had thought of that. Probably would have saved a lot of stress, (mental, emotional and physical)

AND EVERYONE IS A BIG WD PUSS. As a matter of fact, none of us are WD pusses or WD wimps at all, we just don't like being tortured. and for good reason.
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:48 am

Subfor7-

That’s what I think also. Never saw anyone come up with that one before. I have to re-read her timing though becasue in her last post she wrote it takes her 4 weeks to drop down .25 mg but wouldn’t it be 7 weeks if she did one day a week drops? For example: Week One: .5 for 6 days and .25 for one day Week Two: .5 for 5 days and .25 for 2 days Week 3: .5 For 4 days and .25 for 3 days...etc. The 7th week would be all days at .25 and day one of the 8th week would start the same pattern but with the next drop (although I believe we said she stays at the new level when she hits all 7 days for a couple of weeks before the next drop cycle begins).

Anyway...this is fucking brilliant and could help a lot of people, especially at the lower doses, and whom are, shall we say, the sensitive type.

It’s:

7x, 6x + 1y, 5x + 2y, 4x + 3y, 3x + 4y, 2x + 5y, 1x + 6y, 7y

At adding one lower dose each week I get 8 weeks per drop but no doubt you could do much bigger drops and feel them a lot less then the all days are lowered method. This is pure genius and could become a standard method of care. The interval could be based on what dose your at, the size of the drop, personality type, length of use, average high dose and other factors. I love this formula. It will now be known as the Meow Method.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:45 am

Heh cat,
Been following your thread and just wanted to say that I think the " meow method" as dietdoc dubbed it is pretty ingenious as well!! I actually have two friends that are at higher doses right now and I'm gonna have them check out your thread.. They are both struggling with lowering there doses and I think this method could really help them out. Thanks for sharing your experience so far!!

Best, Tim
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:01 am

Hey DD here's how I'm tapering:

Week 1 - 3.75 mg's for 6 days & 3.5 mg's for 1 day
Week 2 - 3.75 mg's for 5 days & 3.5 mg's for 2 days
Week 3 - 3.75 mg's for 4 days & 3.5 mg's for 3 days
Week 4 - 3.5 mg's for 7 days & hold for another 2 weeks

It's a pretty easy way to drop. Very few if any WD symptoms. I hope this makes better sense.

Now at lower doses I don't know what I'm going to do yet. That's a long way off for me but I'll get there! I'm glad you're feeling pretty well. I don't know how I'll deal with the lack of sleep. That's a big one for me.

I can understand you feeling better at .4 than at some higher doses. I'm finding the same thing. I'm not nearly as wired up at my current dose than I was a those higher doses. It just goes to show you that our bodies & minds do adjust. It just takes time. My time below 1 mg is coming. I'm glad you're feeling well!

Hey @Anna good to hear from you! I wish I thought that I was smart. I feel like a fool being put on this stuff. Oh well, I'm putting that behind me & moving forward. Hope you're doing really well today!
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:22 am

Hey Sub4Seven I'm glad you concur with my tapering method. I know I'm going to suffer when I get really low so I don't want to find myself there & already worn out by W/D's from past drops. I'm hoping this will bring me success in the end.

I must note that when I finally get to that Week 4 where I've dropped completely I do I have minor symptoms like a knot in my chest, upper back aches, lethargy, etc. But they're not too strong at all. Nothing that an aspirin won't kick to the curb! Now that's a successful drop IMHO.

Thanks for stopping by & saying it like it is about W/D's!
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:29 am

Hey Subverted DD. So this will be known as the Meow Method? I love it & I'm glad you think it's a good idea. If I can help even 1 person to not suffer (too much) while tapering then my job is done. I hope that I explained it a little bit better in my prior post. I'm not sure how low I can go with this method, but for now it's working really well for me.

Hope you're doing well today!
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:38 am

Wannabesubjumpa wrote:Heh cat,
Been following your thread and just wanted to say that I think the " meow method" as dietdoc dubbed it is pretty ingenious as well!! I actually have two friends that are at higher doses right now and I'm gonna have them check out your thread.. They are both struggling with lowering there doses and I think this method could really help them out. Thanks for sharing your experience so far!!

Best, Tim


Hi Tim, I'm thrilled that I'm getting so much support for the now dubbed "Meow Method". I really hope it helps your friends on the higher doses like me. This makes each drop a pretty soft landing. At higher doses you could easily drop much more (like .5 or 1 or even 2) but just still use the same method. For me, it's built a lot of confidence to drop. As opposed to dropping so suddenly & feeling icky W/D symptoms.

Hope your day is a good one!
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby cheeps » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:08 pm

CatsMeow wrote:Hey DD here's how I'm tapering:

Week 1 - 3.75 mg's for 6 days & 3.5 mg's for 1 day
Week 2 - 3.75 mg's for 5 days & 3.5 mg's for 2 days
Week 3 - 3.75 mg's for 4 days & 3.5 mg's for 3 days
Week 4 - 3.5 mg's for 7 days & hold for another 2 weeks

It's a pretty easy way to drop. Very few if any WD symptoms!



Well done kittykat, well done!

I'm going to think ahead...and tweak it a bit since you are still in the high numbers


Week five. 3.5 for six days & 3.0 for one
Week six. 3.5 for five days &3.0 for two
Week seven 3.5 for four days &3.0 for three
Week eight 3.5 for three days & 3.0 for four
Week nine 3.5 for two days & 3.0 for five
Week ten 3.0 for seven days
After seven days, check for homeostasis, if confident keep going, if not...hold for 3-7 days

Week eleven 3.0 for six days & 2.75 for one
Week twelve 3.0 for five days & 2.75 for two
Week thirteen 3.0 for four days & 2.75 for three
Week fourteen 3.0 for three days & 2.75 for four
Week fifteen 3.0 for two days & 2.75 for five
Week sixteen 2.75 for seven days
After seven days, check for homeostasis, if confident keep going, if not...hold for 3-7 days


And so on.

This takes out the two week hold but dayscan be put back in.

Battery dying....so have to post incomplete ideas.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:34 pm

Thanks for taking the time to prepare this plan Cheeps. So basically you're taking out my 2 week holding period after each drop. I LIKE IT! I definitely think that I can do this & it sure will speed up my decent but at a VERY reasonable rate.

I think I'll keep that 2 weeks in at 3.5 to take me through the Thanksgiving Holidays, then get started up right away after that. I mean after all, I'm only dropping 1 day of that 1st week. I believe that I never have any problems with that week anyway.

Good job girl! I really appreciate the time & effort you've put in to help me out here.
The Cat's Meow is very happy! Purrrrr
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Don_Pisto » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:47 pm

Hello fellow cat lover

As long as you’re decreasing your dose, and don’t set some deadline, there’s nothing wrong at all with your method if it’s working for you.

You’re still on a hefty dose though with a big stack in your body, so tapering this slow at those big does should be fairly easy until you get to the lower doses like under 1.5-1mg. I don’t mean to sound like a party pooper, that’s just the reality of this evil drug. At the low doses that’s where going slow can help most people (and patience gets tested, guaranteed)

I say keep doing what you’re doing and learn as much as you can of this horrible drug.

DP
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:25 pm

cheeps wrote:
CatsMeow wrote:Hey DD here's how I'm tapering:

Week 1 - 3.75 mg's for 6 days & 3.5 mg's for 1 day
Week 2 - 3.75 mg's for 5 days & 3.5 mg's for 2 days
Week 3 - 3.75 mg's for 4 days & 3.5 mg's for 3 days
Week 4 - 3.5 mg's for 7 days & hold for another 2 weeks


OK...now I see where you get the 4 weeks to go down per drop from. Once you get to 3 out of 7 days at a lowered dose you just drop all of the remaining 4 days at the same time. Perhaps that’s the key for you and others to handle the lower doses easier...drop each week just ONE day for all SEVEN. Takes 3 weeks longer per drop but I’d bet it would have a dramatic impact on lowering or even completely thwarting withdrawal symptoms.

I am not ever going liquid but I might go Meow Method on my lower doses and drops. I drop all days at once. Tomorrow is actually my LAST day at .45 mg per day and Wednesday starts 14 days of .4 mg ...a drop of 11.5%. And you know what I’m going to feel and go through when I do this drop?!?! NOTHING. I will not feel anything. It won’t make any difference at all. I won’t let it. I refuse. If I went from .45 to .25 then maybe I’d feel a sting for a few days...but going from .45 mg to .40 mg each day? Put it this way: My Dearest Suboxone, fuck off. That is all.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:43 pm

Just posted on your Thread. Glad you see the means to my method more clearly. I'm impressed that when you drop, you just drop & that's it. Sending positive thoughts your way that you will feel no different at .40. An 11.5% drop is real progress.

I guess I'm tapering the way I am is because I have symptoms every week that I drop. I'm on week 3 going from 3.75 to 3.5 & last night I had some of my usual symptoms. When I go to bed I'm tired, but can't get to sleep. So I take a couple of sips of Dream Water. Also my nose stops up & I can't breathe through my mouth (to get to sleep) so I use Afrin. Plus my heart rate elevates ever so slightly & that's annoying & it scares me.

Using tools learned here, I told myself okay, my body is trying to heal its self. This will go away & I will get some good sleep & all these things will be gone tomorrow. And they were!

Some may say that I shouldn't be having these symptoms on such a high dose... but I do. Maybe me being 59 years old is a factor. Maybe 7.5 years on opiates makes a difference. Or perhaps my body is fighting it harder because I've only been on sub for 6 months. All I know is that I experience some WD's with every drop no matter how slow I go.

I guess this is just my cross to bear. We all have them. I will continue to taper ever so slowly & I will be free of this one day. Just one day at a time.
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Annalo57 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:57 pm

Hey Cat. Just stopping by to say thanks for your wonderful support on my thread. I think you're doing a really smart taper. This is going to be the hardest thing we will ever do. But we will do it. All of us. There are people on here that have been really extraordinary in terms of support. You, Wannabe, Diet Doc, and Cheeps of course. You guys and others have been instrumental in getting me on the right track. I've learned a lot on this forum. I'm making a commitment that once I no longer have to pay my evil Sub Dr, I'm gonna give something back to SubSux. I think this place is literally saving my life. Before I found SS I really didn't have any hope of coming off this drug. Now I have more than hope, I have a feeling of certainty that, with patience, I will do this.

I hope you're feeling well today.

Much love

Anna banana :banana:
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:35 pm

I had kind of a tough night last night, but I'm doing pretty great today. Yay! I agree, I don't know where I would be without SS. SS has also give me a great deal of hope that I will beat this thing. I was trying to learn on that other website, but boy was that a mistake. They think you should just stay on sub forever! How crazy is that?

Here, I've gotten the REAL story & I'm reacting accordingly. Met some great folks along the way too. It's funny, I've read so many tapering stories that I actually feel like I know these folks. Surely some good karma will come their way for all they've done for so many.

Hope everyone has a very Happy Halloween today! Yay sweets!
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:28 am

Hey Cat...Thanks for the post on my thread. You’ve encouraged me as much as I and others have encouraged you. It matters not what dose you’re at, but rather that we’re both part of an group that share a common fight. The dose is incidental in this context, the common foe is everything. Never look at someone else dose and feel and sense being “behind”. It’s all relative. There are dozens of people reading your thread that haven’t posted on it (yet, and may never post anything) whom are taking 16 mg a day and you’ve inspired them to start to taper. You making it to 3.5 mg a day from 16 (at age 60) is a huge source of hope to people. You’re never behind when you’re on the path. By the way, I am a complete screw up. I just found a post where I wrote about how I finally made it to 1 mg a day written on October 13 (today is October 31). I mention this because that 1 mg declaration was written on October 13th, 2016!!!
Yup, took me one year and 3 weeks to go from 1 mg to .4 mg a day. This is becasue I have reversed course at least 3 times losing months everytime...making it to 1 mg and going back to the 2 to 4 mg range for months. But all I can say is that’s just what I did and eventually it’s how I’ll make it to the end.

So I was taking Xanax at MUCH higher doses than you for years while also on Buprenorphine. I chose to taper off Xanax FIRST. So I tapered totally off about 6 mg per day of Xanax about 2 years ago. You’re smart and you’ve lived a while, but I know those waters so here’s my 2 cents. Based on what you’ve written about yourself I’d say if you want to taper off benzos freeze your bupe taper. You’ve been on bupe a short time but a decade on benzos. IMPO I wouldn’t try to tackle both. The only reason I’m doing it is I was only on benzos for a month (THIS month hahah) and went a little crazy...I took it just long enough for my brain to down regulate endogenous GABA. Anyway, it’s a huge decision you have to really think about. You can align our situations with where I was 2 years ago and you are now but now where I am now (due to such short term use).

You are also being treated for a medical condition and Xanax is part of that care. That’s a big deal. Of all the things you’ve written about discussing tapering your Xanax is the only thing that makes me very concerned for you. Becasue of you medical history, length of use and personality type (relative to withdrawals and medication) my 2 cents, in your case, leave the benzo alone. Keep your brain chemistry constant and consistent and just get off one thing at a time...opiates.

I know this sounds bad but if I were in your shoes I’d stock pile a shit load of Xanax. This way you can take “rescue doses” of Xanax without having to raise your base dose...or even raise your daily dose if needed, and you’re totally off Suboxone you’ll taper down the benzo to where ever you want to be. Anyway, I’m sure you’ve thought about all of this. Just letting you know someone is thinking of your situation.

Hope all is well.

SDD
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:40 am

Hi Cat,
Thanks for the kind words on my thread!! I wanted you to know that I told my two friends to check out the meow method. I know for me, I was all over the place dosing at or above 2mgs so I think they could really benefit from the structure of this method.. As so many before us have said ,I think the main thing is the fact you found a method that is working for you.. You have a great positive presence here and that can be contagious so keep up the good work!!
As you know I'm gonna be gone on holiday for a bit but I'll surely be trying to check in if at all possible..
All my best, T
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby Annalo57 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:31 pm

CatsMeow is THE CATS MEOW!!!! For real Cat. You're pretty amazing. You keep up with so many people here. I'm kind of impressed. 8-) 8-) 8-)

My brain ain't working' that fast. :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:52 pm

Dearest DD,

Thanks for your VERY insightful post. You make me feel like I belong & matter even if I'm currently on a higher dose than most & for that I appreciate it! Makes me feel much more comfortable on the boards.

I believe that I will take your advice about the Xanax. I do believe that I have comfortably dropped .25 mg so I'm at least going to stay there for now & concentrate on getting off the Sub. Actually, yesterday I had a couple of bombs dropped on me from all different directions (but all by family members). :o Both incidents just came out of absolutely no where! Man, I was losing it last night. I wanted something to dull the pain so bad. :gaah: But using the knowledge from SS got me through. For 7.5 years I would have taken a little extra SAO to calm me down. So this is REAL life & I'm going to have to learn how to deal with it. Quite the eye opener. But I did survive!

Thanks for letting me know that you're there for me & all the great advice is much appreciated!
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:02 pm

Wannabesubjumpa wrote:Hi Cat,
Thanks for the kind words on my thread!! I wanted you to know that I told my two friends to check out the meow method. I know for me, I was all over the place dosing at or above 2mgs so I think they could really benefit from the structure of this method.. As so many before us have said ,I think the main thing is the fact you found a method that is working for you.. You have a great positive presence here and that can be contagious so keep up the good work!!
As you know I'm gonna be gone on holiday for a bit but I'll surely be trying to check in if at all possible..
All my best, T


Hey T! I'm so glad that you think my tapering method is a valid one. If it helps even one besides me then I'm glad I joined & posted about it. Cheeps has given me a way to possibly speed it up just a little bit & I'm going to try it. Since I've only been on Subs for 6 months I'm really hoping to avoid as much trauma as possible. At 59 I'm no spring chicken. :shrug: I'm particularly concerned with the HBP aspect. I've already had my MD prescribe me Clonodine just in case my heart rate speeds up (even during tapering). One of my WD symptoms even now is a knot in my chest. I usually just take an aspirin & it goes away so that's good.

Hope you have a wonderful holiday!
Cat
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Re: Am I Tapering TOO Slow?

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:10 pm

Annalo57 wrote:CatsMeow is THE CATS MEOW!!!! For real Cat. You're pretty amazing. You keep up with so many people here. I'm kind of impressed. 8-) 8-) 8-)

My brain ain't working' that fast. :banana: :banana: :banana:


Thanks for that Anna Banana! Right now I'm at the office by myself a lot so I take that time to read & learn. Sub has sort of consumed my life at this point. I can't help it. It's hard to concentrate & when I am working I have to check my work like 3 times to make sure I don't make mistakes. When I'm holding my dose I work like crazy to catch up until I start my next drop.

As low as you are I'm impressed with how well you keep up with others here too! :cheers2: That's what this forum is all about - support. We all need it and we feel natural endorphins when we give it.

Again, big congrats to your Rangers! Perhaps they're turning their season around this year. :popcorn:
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