getting of sub fast

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: getting of sub fast

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:36 am

Hey Les...Nice to meet you. I am a fellow taperer on sub and a NYC dude, although now I’m in Maryland/Washington. I’m 56 years old...got a decade on you...so I can relate to what we call co-morbidities, like esophagitis and conjunctivitis along with the razors edge of chronic withdrawal.

IMHO, you’ve made good choices. Using sub and starting with/at the lowest possible dose to find a stable starting point (when you were so sick and miserable) knowing you’re going into a taper as soon as you stabilize is a great and humane move. You’re sick man. In your mid-30s with a month to kick feeling basically OK in all other ways is a universe away from where you, I, and a bunch of us are.

I am older so you might not have been around for it or lived in NYC but there was this basically open drug market in Union Square Park...that’s like ummm like the 70s...but it went on probably into the 80s...anyway, that was our big intro into to drugs as kids. Used to go there and get Quualudes for 5 bucks, bring them to school and sell them for 10. Needle Park. And Washington Square Park too. Grew up there too. Now I play guitar in WSP, I’ve been playing guitar in Washting Square Park since I was like 14 or 15. Used to play on the corner of McDoughal and Bleeker Streets busking for money. Anyway, you mentioned the Village.

I go through times where I write a lot but pull back due to various issues. I’ve been tapering off from using 16 mg a day for just short of 10 years. Been at it for the past year. I failed twice before several years back. I’ve been a bit quite becasue I made, shall we say, a tactile error. A little over 2 years ago I was on buprenorphine and benzodiazepine. I was taking a lot of Xanax everyday for a few years. Decided to tackle that one first. And did. So I started my sub taper, 16 mg, 12 mg, 10 mg, 8 mg, 7.5 mg...then slower and lower. When I got just under 1 mg I had a lot of problems, no sleep and high anxiety for almost 3 months. So I went on a bit of a benzo bender and now I’m tapering off both simultaneously. After all that work. Took me 6 months to taper off Xanax before the bupe taper. Anyway...I’ve been sad and mad. And I went full retard on the Xanax this time. I party took doses, not medicinal doses...for the past month. The great benzo blackout of 2017. I dropped the benzo dose dramatically this week and am tapering in .25 mg every 5 days. I should be writing all this on my thread, not yours. This is the one problem I see with a long, slow buprenorphine taper. It can put you at risk for needing a break from the long periods of sub-acute withdrawal, which can get pretty bad. Cold turkey is a whole other mindset. Once you’re deep in it you know that clock is ticking fast toward the end...tapering is tedious and trying. It’s also a personality type related thing.

So the two things I’ll mention/back up are: once you find that ligitimate dose level that holds you for 24 hours with no overt discomfort DON’T TAKE MORE TO TRY TO FEEL BETTER IT DOESN’T WORK (unless you titrate up and stay there for weeks which I’ve also wasted time doing). But a little more here and there won’t help, it will only derail you. And the other is just accept it’s a long slow process. And unlike me, beware of the ‘comfort meds’.

See you in SoHo Dude.

Best - SDD
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby CatsMeow » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:16 am

Think of drinking lots of good water like moving that Sub trash out of your system much faster & letting those receptors heal much faster. I drink tons of it & have been able to avoid the Sub headaches I read so much about. You'll get used to the peeing all the time. It's a hassle, but IMHO well worth it.

Sometimes we must deviate just a bit from some sort of schedule that we perceive as correct. Listen to your body & act accordingly. Just try really hard not to spike. You stand a very good chance of getting off this stuff fast. Try to take that chance & turn it into reality.

I'm rooting for you all the way down to 0!
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:03 am

Duh...didn't realize there was a page two...nice to meet you fellow nycer SDDr. You get it, I see! By the time I arrived on the scene, say '83 or '84 or so, I think USQuare wasn't quite as bad but back then the East Vill. was rife with the crunch underfoot of crack vials and I don't really remember straying that far north. Don't know if you've been back recently but...everyday I say to myself, "Where the fuck am I?". Tis a different landscape indeed. Thems were the days...Tompkins Sq. Riot, living in squats, throwing cinder blocks through the windows of newly opened Gap stores and NYU dorm buildings. Please be careful with them benzo's. Xanax and I do not get along. I black out frequently. Much prefer Valium but it inevitably leads to other things like Gin and well, Gin will make ya sin, etc...this whole message board/thread thing is new to me...embarrassed to say it never occurred to me to read other threads--man is my brain fried or am I just that self-absorbed?! Probably both at the moment. Been 24 days without the needle, the gin that makes ya sin and the benzos and the herbals. My sub use is highly erratic. Having an absurdly difficult time slicing these fucking film strips up. Trying to get my shrink to give me the pills next time and hopefully the ones without nalaxone. If I want to get high, I'm a gonna get high and no amount of nalaxone is going to stop me. When I begin my taper I'd rather it be just one drug rather than two. Hopefully sooner than later I'll post a link to an interesting article I read by some Dr. in FLA. about Sub detox. But in the meantime, I'm not being consistent in my dosing both in the time I dose and the amount. Not cool. Fucks with my sleep patterns, my manic episodes, my ability to go to my out patient program, my comfort level in AA, etc. Heard some dingobatfuckheadignoramus person knocking Sub. in a meeting today. His issues with it were not ours I believe. But enough of that. I just have to be careful. Not all get it. Anyway, I still feel like someone takes a 2x4 to my legs everyday. Never seem to not be sore or tired. I cannot stop eating which no doubt contributes to my constant feeling of exhaustion, though I have reduced my exercise but I finally realized that I shouldn't be walking eight miles a day. Problem is, I really enjoy turning on Spotify and walking all over Manhattan. My right knee does not feel the same way. Music and movement produce a lot of adrenalin and endorphins. Still trying to find a balance. Another astute guest of this place mentioned the same thing about NOT taking a wee bit more and for the same reasons. I have to admit I have done this on several occasions. I wonder if my metabolism is so fast and I'm burning it off by moving around so much? It's fucking hard. I don't trust the out patient shrink and staff-- they want me on 16-24mg's, say I'm a chronic IV user and that I'm on death's doorstep. I'm on death's doorstep every time I walk outside and risk getting hit by a bus or run over by terrorist. It's totally absurd, their opinion in my opinion. I have a history of sobriety. I kicked this evil shit before. Yes, no doubt, this time is going to be different. Yes, this time I am somewhat old and decrepit though I cut up a serious rug or two on Halloween (I was Fred Astaire, top hat and all). I still believe exercise is the key but unfortunately, because of my bad knee and worse shoulder I can't do it like I used to. But then again, I have 25 (now that its past midnight) FUCKING DAYS!!! I seem to think I'm like those magic sea horse things you used to order in the back of comic books-- just add water and I come to life instantly. I am trying to listen to my body and the last week it's been telling me to chill the fuck out. If only life didn't have to interfere in my daily routine. Those horrible things known as relationships and finances and obligations keep fucking me up. You sir, are correct-- it will be a longer than I want and slower than I want process. I'm like a spoiled child that wants ice cream NOW. I am going to Costa Rica in three weeks for a three week surf trip. My friends who re paying are sober and they know I'm on Sub and are ok with it. I'm nervous and uncomfortable. Will the insane amount of energy I burn off help or hinder? Should I try to taper there? I can't see getting totally off this shit in the winter in NYC. I can barely survive NYC with a needle filled with endless dope in my arm 24/7.I feel like if it doesn't happen by xmas it won't happen until spring has sprung and April showers have brought May flowers. Seems like an eternity. Fuck. I play guitar, albiet quite poorly but it relaxes me. I sorta play along with Bob Dylan and T-Rex and sing even more offensively than I play guitar. Probably a good thing my last ex kept my harmonica too. It's a pleasure to meet you and many thanks for your kind and wise words and you as all from here are, re in my thoughts and prayers. Get off the Xanax!! I have clonidine for when I begin my taper in earnest and I may though hopefully under a doctor's supervision take a klonipin or two for the roughest part of detox but who knows?

Greeting Miss Meow! Yes, I know, water, water, more water. So why don't I drink water? Because I'm a knucklehead. I try every now and then but never seem to maintain it. I drink cup o tea in the morn when I wake, rice milk protein shake for breakfast, latte on the way to out patient, fruit/protein smoothie in the afternoon and lately another latte in the late afternoon because I have been so fatigued (of course, it's probably the caffeine that is making me tired!). I was drinking a bottle of water at every AA meeting I went to but I have to pee so often!!
Sometimes I think I should just try some crazy 30 day detox ASAP and get it over with but I'm pretty sure that's my manic, adrenalin junky side doing the talking. Come to think of it, I have been getting headaches the past few weeks but I thought they were related to my contact lenses or sudden lapses in caffeine consumption. If only I can make some progress on the physical health side of things. I really am having a hard time differentiating between sub withdrawal and aches and pains from other things. Two nights ago I decided to tough out my not feeling well and was rewarded with straight up withdrawal!! Was horrible. I am confident I don't mindfuck myself and convince myself I am in withdrawal. Been through this too many times and I want full sobriety too much. Hoping to get the funds to do some acupuncture and alternative method physical therapy.

What I have learned in my battle against addiction whatever the drug, legal or illegal, etc., etc.: Find and draw from as many resources as possible. At this very early stage of my recovery these are the things I do though admittedly not as consistently as I would like, despite not having to work at present (really now, who the fuck would hire me?!!). Out patient drug program: I find it extremely helpful. The groups are educational (I choose to pay attention for once), I can have a decent amount of time to talk about my shit in a group setting in a safe and friendly and caring environment (not all drug recovery programs are created equal-- I feel like I hit the lottery with the one I am in and even then it is far from perfect). AA meetings: similar to out patient but less time and not the environment for EVERYTHING. But its the real world and raising my hand, volunteering to clean up after the meeting, getting a commitment (supposedly getting one when I have thirty days, man I never thought I'd say that; I was always too cool to do shit like that. Nothing humbles like pain) and accepting the kindness of people who reach out to me. Again, not all AA meetings are the same. Again, I feel like I won the Mega and Lotto having found a group where I am comfortable so far. Subsux: this is all new to me but it has been nothing but a positive experience so far. Knowing there are many others like me (and my age or older) going through this shit while saddening (don't like to think you are suffering) is totally comforting and encouraging. While I probably will never see your faces or even hear your voices, I know you are there fighting the same fight and you give me strength to win this War of wars. Animals: we share this planet with a diverse group of other species. Being round as many of them as possible and learning from them and being healed by them is a game changer. Molly, one of my cats made sure I out that in. She is a fierce and highly attentive editor. She really hates it when I make too many spelling errors. I blame them on my melted keyboard. Music: heals the soul, lifts the spirits. The Sun, the sun, the sun: same thing. Best and cheapest anti-depressant ever. Just don't forget to moisturize!! Healthy food: eat well if you can afford it-- makes a huuge difference. Exercise: makes the blood flow, the heart beat, the Endorphins fly, the dopeamine spike, etc. And when all else fails...BREATH. As basic and fundamental as it gets. In through the nose, out through the mouth or whatever works for you. PEACE :)
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:13 am

DietDoc guy: just read some of your old posts. Hilarious!! Yeah this isn't a joke but your humor is golden!! I never thought my penis would work again. Had a wet dream in detox and its working in spades now at 2 or so mg's. Actually wished it didn't work sometimes. Causes an awful lot of trouble! If this isn't appropriate my apologies.
I seem to have become very good at being inappropriate these past few weeks. Fuck it!
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:31 am

Can't sleep. Been reading through various threads here and there. Heartbreaking shit. Really wish I could help.
I know a lot of people are not in AA and I totally respect that, Took me 20 years until it became an attractive option. However, what is personally the most attractive and fundamentally important aspect of AA is available to us all via this forum: community and support. Reading the struggles of you all especially those older than my 48 years
can be grim. Puts knots in my stomach. But then I see the responses to those crying out for help and I feel a little better. This is a special place. I, of little faith in technology, see a glimmer of hope in the evil Screens. I still say there is no substitute for face to face interaction but when all other options are not available or have failed there is still this. I suspect my bravado and sense of urgency will likely betray me in my endeavors to get off this shit but I also feel that without this sense of urgency, without a forced confidence (fake it til you make it), I will fail. I can't afford to fail. In a world where harm reduction is an acceptable outcome, where the supposed lesser of two evils is good enough, the reality is we are just on another money making soul killing medication. I admit, I'm better off doing sub than being on the needle and the spoon (I have no fucking spoons left) but still it is not a good place to be. Life is hard enough without some kind of mind and spirit altering substance. People still die, the IRS still knocks on your door, relationships still torture you...Life's a bitch and then you die so I might as well live it high...nope.
When I was truly sober I saw rainbows while riding waves with pelicans for companionship and when I looked towards the shore there was nary a sight of humankind's existence. Sweet cool water fell from the sky refreshing my salty lips and skin and the warm ocean water kept my muscles alert and energized. Stuff like that never happened when I shot dope. I never kissed a girl and felt a thrill of electricity rocket through my body. I never felt the unbearable pain of love gone awry either. I was too busy chasing the next shot. I found being sober was worth it not only for the ability to feel the joy but also to feel the pain. TO FEEL. For real. Ever tried. Ever failed. NO MATTER. TRY AGAIN. FAIL BETTER.-- Samuel Beckett. An ex once told me after breaking up with me when I cried "I tried, I tried so hard.", "Try harder." In the larger picture she was right. Wish I could sleep. The place smells like a fucking ashtray.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby Eyedotz » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:31 am

Well written, my friend... brought tears to my eyes I have to admit.

Glad to have you here. The opulence of sobriety is like no other. I have prided myself on being script free (of all evil things) since my sub jump. I have endured many feelings that were hard to process and get through but at the end of the roller coaster, I have learned much from my experience. I have learned many things about myself that I couldn't see from the outside. I still struggle on some days... mostly with things I have no control over. I am learning that endlessly worrying about something you have no control over, only hurts me in the end. I am learning to let go. I have been sober for 19 months for the first time since I was 13 years old, so these things I must learn. I must live in the realm of uncomfortable emotions. After all, isn't that what living truly is?

:D - dotz
Eyedotz Spotify playlist (EDM Detox Mix)
https://open.spotify.com/user/eyedotz/p ... luHItCVAiQ
13 Year Sub survivor - Jumped at .03mg after 9 month taper from 4-6mg.
JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

Forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know before you learned it.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Wow, very profound post my friend. Sorry you're not able to sleep. Even if you can't sleep, lay down & try to rest. Your body needs it so give yourself as much "rest" as you can.

Gonna say it again. Please drink your water. I always found NYC water to be very good. Once you get into the habit it's an easy one to keep. I've always been a huge water drinker even before I got slung onto Sub. When I was at those high doses I was able to ward off the "Sub headaches" I believe with lots & lots of water.

I'm not sure if I mentioned but I'm 59 years old. It's going to be a difficult road to be free of this crap, but at least we have SubSux & the fellowship that goes along with posting here! I smoke twice as much on Sub than I did on any SAO so I could be in better shape. I've got to get an exercise program going like you are. Just don't over do!

Hang in there & keep banking those days.
Cat
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:16 pm

This is not working. I am a physical wreck. The sleep shit is ridiculous. I am unable to function. The positive habits and routines have all pretty much gone out the window. I think my sub dose is now at twomg or even slightly less but I can't even remember half the time when or how much I took. I'm becoming apathetic. Dont exercise though appetite is pretty good. Fear the onset of depression. The weather and the temp and my overall situation all point towards a Fall.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:30 pm

I am tired, I am weary
I could sleep for a thousand years
A thousand dreams that would awake me
Different colors made of tears
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