getting of sub fast

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getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:31 am

Hi, just out of detox, 48 yr old male, was hardcore iv user, last dose of meth was sunday 2.5 mg by wednesday i was a total mess, took a sliver of suboxone, held me 12 hours was maybe 1mg, took about the same 12 hours later. it is now 12 hours since last dose. Still feel ok. i was on sub 11 yrs ago for nine months but really knew nothing about it. Shrink told me i would be on it at 8mg the rest of my life. I thought fuck that and somehow got down to two mg a day and then 1.5, etc and must have stepped off around .5mg a day. To this day I have no fucking idea how I did it other than I was extremely healthy and excercising a lot. I took no other medication. it was fucking brutal. i went to 12 step meetings. now 11 years older, not healthy but again attending 12 step, i am petrified of being on this shit too long. I was clean of all narcotics including sub for nine years until surgery, percocet, heroin relapse for 20 months iv use. have not slept in four days, dont want to go down this dark path again. Im convinced the shorter time im on the stuff the better. Refuse to go above two mg./day. Scared to death. Want to be happy, joyous and free again. Please advise. Thank you. I have about 20 suboxone strips.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby Annalo57 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:13 am

Hello les601. I'm and old junkie too. IV user for years.Then I had 6 years clean and sober, nt so much as an aspirin. But Ive been on Subutex for at least 10 years. Not sure exactly how long, but I remember seeking it out in 2003. Went on then off due to a relapse after 6 years. Then back on to kick the dope. I'm doing the liquid taper. I'm down to .43mg 2 x a day and i have to say I feel like shit. Im kinda feeling like it would be easier to come off Heroin than this. But i also know thats the addict in me talking. Wanting what it wants. Opiates have screwed me up for 30 years, drugs in general for over 40 years.

Anyway I wanted to say hi cuz I saw your thread. I'm definitely extremely uncomfortable. I can't sleep, I can't eat. Even my cigarettes taste awful, so I can't even smoke. I guess some would say thats a good thing, but I wasn't planning on addressing that right now.

I'm just being really strict with myself. I have tons of subtext, though some are white and some are light orange(not suboxone) footballs. So far I have not wavered from my course, despite feeling like total crap. But I am glad I'm not writhing around, convulsing on the floor. Thumbs up!!!!

I never took as much as I was prescribed so Ive been stockpiling for this very thing, my taper. Fuck my doctor, he wants another 10 years out of me. Not gonna give it to him.

I think that I wish I was trying to come off a few days of Subtext rather than 10+ years. I think you can do this. Just stick to the script(not the prescription). You know what you can handle and what you can't. Just like I know. If it gets too hard, I have 2 choices...Go back to the doc, or.......That is not a choice. I want to be here, I want to be clean again. I want my life back, even if it is an old life. I want to genuinely smile again. I want to laugh for real again. I want to see my kids achieve all they want and see their children. Thats what I want. I admit I have had some suicidal moments, but something keeps me here. It must be them....don't you think???

So from one old junkie to another, do what needs to be done. I'm fighting so hard right now. Fight with me.

Best
Anna Banana :banana:
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby cheeps » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:35 am

Dude...how long were you on the methadone? What dose? You need to get on .75mgs for 5 days, then .5 for 7 days, then .25 for 7 days....then throw the rest in the trash.

What mg are the strips? 2's or 8's?

Get off the SHIT before it traps your ass!!
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:25 pm

Hey, sorry not used to using this type of thing. Thank you both Anna Bannana and Cheeps. I was on suboxone for 9 months about 11 years ago. How I got off it? Beats the fuck outta me!!! I have two guesses: first off, I really had no clue what the stuff was a didnt want to know. My last shot of dope at the time was in my foot and though I got a clean hit and felt the rush, etc., being high suddenly did not make me feel better. I thought, "Shit man, now what?! I went to detox for two days, got kicked out for lack of insurance, came home, lay down in my bed utterly defeated and my neighbor, who has since died from drug addiction, came down to my apt. and gave me an orange pill. I had no idea what it was but hey, I'm an addict-- I'll use anything. About an hour later, I got this crazy warm rush and I started crying and then laughing. I was like Jesus risen from the dead!!! The next day I went to see this shrink who said "you'll be on this the rest of your life, 8-16mg/day." Of course I said to myself, "fuck that shit, and somehow got down to 2mg/day relatively quickly (few months I think), went to another shrink who said all I could do was taper and suffer and that's what I did. The key to my success was I think my age (37), the fact that I was extremely physically healthy (producing enough endorphins, dopeamine, whatever the fuck it is naturally), I went to meetings every fucking day even though generally disliked them (at least there were women there!!), had a amazingly rewarding job in an animal shelter and I was completely ignorant to what I was about to go through. I've kicked dope just about every way possible but when I ws in my 20's. 48 is a different ballgame. I havent been on meth since detox ten days ago and I was actually totally off everything for almost four days when I shit the bed. Normally 72 hours and you are through the worst of it. Day for I lay in my friends lap crying like a baby. Not cool. Finally I said fuck it and took the tiniest of slivers of sub. (I have 8mg./2mg strips which I do not like. I think the pills were better and I think subutext woould be even better but don't know where to get it in NYC) Again, an hour lter I felt better though nothing like that first time but I felt ok, no complaints. It lasted 12 hours and I broke out in cold sweats and cramps. Took another sliver. Lasted another 12 hours. Now on day six back on this evil fucking shit I think I am somewhere between 2-3mg's a day. I take to little it does not last 24 hours and I go into withdrawl which I seem to keep on doing and my body is paying the price but when I take more I seem to get manic and I can't sleep. I did not experience this the first time around or at lest I don't remember. The first time I ws on it my life was so busy I actually forgot to take the shit a bunch of times and would be at work yawning and tearing wondering what the fuck was happening!! So i did some ind of tper with the pill which i of course don't now rememeber. and took a lot of hot baths and suffered but again I dont rememeber how long this went on for. Its like I have blocked it out or something. Now 11 yrs. later I am not the least bit ignorant about this shit and I really don't want to be on this stuff for long. The problem is that I am so physically weak right now I don't seem to be able to do the taper. My body freaks out. I weigh 125 fuckin pounds. 25 under my normal weight. My guts are shot, my esophagus is shot.
I am beat the fuck down. I'm going to meetings which don't bother me so much (yet). Out patient starts tomorrow.
they wanted me on 90 mgs of methadone. they said i was hopeless and they kicked me out two weeks ago. (recurring theme)I was doing three bundles a day along with benzos and gin and weed (so i could eat). somehow got down to eight a day (probably the gin, god i love gin-- gin will make ya sin!)and made it through detox and even cut my methadone taper short. I'm getting some clonidine for when I kick. It helps. Shit, Id take a valium or two and tell my sponsor and not sweat it if I could get my hands on them. I'm just afraid the longer I'm on the shit the harder it will be to get off. AnnaBanna: what's a liquid taper? liquid sub? never heard of it. i think the strips suck cuz they r inconsistent. I found the pills easier to break down. Anyway, to anyone who reads this way toooo long ramble who is trying to kick this shit: exercise, hot baths, clonidine, meetings (I don't believe in God but the fellowship and helping another addict helps me a lot). Keep busy. If you pray, pray like a mother fucker. If you have to do softer drugs do them as long as they don't lead u back down that path. I could be a professional dope shooter believe me. If you survived mean streets like the mean streets of NYC with the needle and the spoon in tow then you can kick this shit. Go from a stone cold dope fiend to a happy surfing, dancing fool like I plan to be!!! Peace
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:33 pm

Please excuse the typos: when i was shooting dope I had a tendency to nod out over my keyboard with a cigarette in my hand and now my keyboard is all fucked up. Poor computer!!! One last thing: If you have animals and they love you, they will help you. My cats are pretty decent nurses. They can sense your pain and they will give you love and affection. Cats actually purr (though not the only reason) when they are injured as a way of dealing with their injury. Animals are magical and they know a lot more than we think.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby cheeps » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:14 am

I agree about the animals Les....I just woke up and on my phone but wanted to say that you need to stay on 2 mgs and suffer thru that. Structure in dose is the way to start. Be back later...And yeah we are all old hands at drug abuse here.....just saying :D
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:44 pm

Thank you Cheeps. I'd say I
m on about threemg's and will maintain here for a few weeks until my body gets healthier. Then begin the taper. I appreciate this place here. Even if no one reads what I write it is still therapeutic!!!
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby Dcleanist » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:55 pm

Howdy fellow tri state neighbor. I have a riddle.

If you don't believe there is a god then you don't believe there is a devil.

Either you get clean or die trying. Eventually there's only heaven or hell left. Or worse death. I hope the best for you. You near LBI or coney. You been through too much to give up now. Peace
The voice of reason is reasonably late.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:46 am

I'm not here to discuss religion. I mean no disrespect to anyone. I merely put out there my own belief or lack of because I know many people struggle with the same thing and that it keeps them out of the rooms of AA. West Vill.
Peace.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby Annalo57 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:49 am

Hey Les, sorry I didn't come back sooner. Been dealing with my own demons. I'm in NYC too, I'm an old NYC junkie. I just wanted to say, I know where you've been. And as far as animals are concerned, you and I are on the same page. They are magical. I miss my dog, but kinda glad he's not with me anymore cuz I wouldn't be able to properly care for him like this. Anyway, keep posting, it helps others like myself and it helps you. Don't be shy. I'm not. This is a bitch of a battle!! A fight that sometimes I feel I'm destined to lose, but I'll keep trying. Don't give up, don't go away. We all need you here.

Have decent day.
Peace my friend.

Anna (not so much banana today)
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:14 pm

Hey Anna,

It sounds like you are close to winning your battle though? Or do I misunderstand? Yeah, I'm lucky my cats though 14 yrs old now, are still pretty independent, self-sufficent creatures. They need and give love and eat like horses and like me to play with them but thankfully I don't have to walk them!!!!We help each other-- that's what it's all about! You inspire me! I'm really having trouble with these strips. Next week I'm going to try and get them switched to pills which are easier to consistently break down. The drug companies deliberately, according to my pharmacist, wnt to push the strips because if you cut them, they cant guarantee an even distribution of the drug. They sell a .3 (point fucking three!) version only in Europe. A shrink just wrote me a script for another 30 of these fucking 8mg. strips so if I don't go over 3mg. a day wht I have should last a long time. However I keep ending up in the ER. Last week it was my stomach and esophagus, then last Friday I was assaulted by a mentally ill lunatic (I'm ok but it was unpleasant) and today I went to five medical facilities of various kinds before finding an opthamologist to examine my eyes which apparently got infected. I have REALLY bad eyesight and not being able to wear my contacts is a big fucking deal. It is something new every day. Of course none of this shit was a problem when I was shootin dope hahaha. Don't go nowhere cuz I ain't goin nowhere! Hang in!
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby Annalo57 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:54 am

Les, I wouldn't say I'm actually close. I'm at .42mg 2 x a day. So .84mg a day. I feel like total crap. I'm doing the liquid taper with Subutex pills. It seems that I'm going to have to feel like I do now for a long time. Some days I'm not sure I'm going to make it. I'm sorry you were assaulted, that doesn't sound good. I hope the lunatic was locked up. I've been up since about 3am after a few hours very fitful sleep. This whole thing is a bitch. But I have months to go. Sometimes I think maybe I should just jump, but people here tell me its not a good idea. So I guess I will have months of discomfort ahead of me. Yay :)
I hope you have a good day today.
Anna
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby cheeps » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:39 am

Les....if you cannot get pills you can switch over to a liquid taper with the strips. And dcleanist wasn't really calling out religion...we are all various and different....he's going thru some heavy shit right now...he's had some major clean time from the H but got nailed again lately...so he needs to get the devil off his mind and dig deep. Y'all are saturated in the big city and that's ne reason it's so hard to get off.

This getting old fast shit is especially hard on us that are over 45-50.... so many other medical issues to deal with....how's your diet? I've come to realize how important it is and have basically cut out meat and dairy. I feel so much better....now if I can get rid of the sugar....
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby Eyedotz » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:22 pm

Hi Les,
Nice to meet you man!
I tapered all the way to .03 (yes, .03mg) with the 2mg strips. At the end, they were the size of eyelashes. I used a fold and tear method... you just keep on folding and tearing your doses. When you get too small for tearing... sharp little scissors work. I tapered for 9 months with various doses and never had an issue with 'distribution'. I heard that too and thinks it's BS the drug companies put out there so we don't 'taper'. I found pills more difficult to get the proper dose but it is my opinion and I digress!

I did not do a liquid taper nor did I do a quick taper (as your subject line suggests you're attempting) so my advice may not work here. Fast tapers scare the hell out of me. This medication is meant for the slow and grueling method of extraction from your system. Some people can pull it off though....I just couldn't do it that way after 13 years.

:)
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JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:01 am

Anna: sounds like you're doing pretty good to me! Still not entirely clear about this liquid taper thing-- do you dissolve the stuff in water?
Cheeps: I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. Certainly not my intent. I agree that diet is important. Right now, however, I am so emaciated that I eat whatever doesn't upset my stomach. It's on been like 17 since my last shot of dope, 13 days since my last methadone in detox and I've been on suboxone for eight days. I have seriously reduced my sugar intake and caffeine intake. I firmly believe exercise is crucial to this process as well. Creating naturally what the suboxone is doing artificially is key. Man I wish I knew how I did it before!
Eyedotz: Nice to meet you too! I get the feeling that 9 months is a rapid detox! I have grudgingly come to realize I can't get off this stuff right now in the shape I am in. I need to stabilize first. It sucks but it's reality. You are probably right about "distribution". I think I like the idea of the pill because that's what I used successfully before. Yesterday I played some basketball, lifted a few weights (something I never do) and went down to a pier on the Hudson river and and stretched and did yoga and footwork exercises. The sun was beaming (best anti-depressant) and it seemed like the entire city was outside. Looks like it's gonna be the same today. But of course, I totally overdid it and now I can barely move!! No pain, no gain!!! Man I'm sore!!! Still haven't gotten comfortable on the sub. I take more (like 3mg.) I become hyperactive and abnormally happy. I take less, like two mgs., I am uncomfortable and start to feel withdrawal symptoms before 24 hours have elapsed. It is an unpleasant and frustrating situation. It'll be a different ballgame when that glorious Sun goes away and the temp. starts to drop.

Thank you everyone for your support and advice and wisdom. Again, if I offend anyone I apologize. I'm here for help, not to throw insults. I'm totally manic still and emotionally raw but hopefully with the passage of time these things will abate.

To those still trying to kick, you are in my prayers and to those who have succeeded, congrats!

Peace
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby cheeps » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:43 pm

No worries les...everyone is trying to keep it together thru a damn taper....and it sucks but once you get to know the other posters...future jumpbuddies...you'll be fine.

I really want you to be strict on staying right at 2mgs. It's important to train your brain not to deviate just because you may have a shitty day, more pain, the sister from hell to visit....any of the old thinking to use just a speck more to get thru the day. Sub is not like methadone or heroin...when you get in the lower numbers even a little spike will FUCK YOU UP. I say that in all seriousness...a little spike doesn't really help you feel better but it does fuck with you when you try to drop. We have this saying....with sub....less is more. In the low numbers you can feel wds quite easily....but spiking even a teensy bit....doesn't really relieve wds or make you feel better. So it's far better for you to be very stern and not dick around trying to find relief. You haven't in any way achieved homeostasis....

So...for this next couple weeks stay on two and listen to your body as it adjusts... and for fucking gods sake man....stop pushing your body....you want to exercise but not to the point of pain for days. It throws you off course. Your course is to be gentle to yourself, eat your fruits and veggies, and view this journey as the last time you EVER use opiates. Set your sights on a better life but don't use old bad habits to get there. Make changes gradually and give yourself this gift....you've been doing dope for years...it will take TIME to get off. The protocol calls for patience and the ability to recognize homeostasis.....give yourself the gift of time and don't lean into the future.
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:20 pm

Thanks Cheeps. Yeah, somehow I got up to three mgs a day but now seem to be back at two thankfully. Exercise really helps. I get so fucking sore I can't distinguish between withdrawal and exercise soreness! Maybe that's the secret!!!! Ha Ha. I am trying to make changes to my diet but until I have a little more time and meat on my bones pretty much anything is game though I have almost inadvertently cut down on sugar and caffeine. Go figure. I make smoothies with peaches and blueberries and a raw egg and apple juice and some kind of organic vegetable matter protein powder some ex GF left behind. I eat apples instead of Ding Dongs. Little by slowly, crawl before I walk.....
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby cheeps » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:49 am

Gimme one of those ding dong pucks....so I can throw it at George! He'll can catch them in his teeth!

Stay the course!
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:01 pm

Hi Les. Just wanted to stop by & say I'm following your posts. You've been through a lot & putting all of this behind you with Subs is going to be a challenge. Please follow cheeps advice & stay at 2 mg if at all possible. Your body should reach homeostasis on that dose. Work on eating right as best you can. Oh & drink lots of good water! Exercise is so good too, but start slow so you're not sore. Hopefully exercise will be a life long thing for you now.

I wish I had found SS much sooner than I did & would have gotten help here 6 months ago when I started. Now I'm way too far in to do a rapid taper like you can (Dr. started me on 16mg!). It's not going to be easy, but keep posting & following the advice that you're receiving.

I truly do wish you the best & hope that fast taper works out well for you!
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Re: getting of sub fast

Postby les601 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:00 am

Cheeps: is George a dog? A cat? :)

Hi Miss Meow: thank you for your support! I'm holding steady most days at 2mg. though today i felt the need to add an eyelash in the late afternoon. Yet another piece of wreckage from my past smacked me in the face the other day and the schedule and routines I had created were thrown in the garbage. Hopefully I can re-establish them soon. I now realize how important consistency is with my situation. I need to drink more water. I try to drink water when I go to meetings instead of coffee or tea but still don't do it enough. I have a feeling it is going to be a rough weekend (yet more wreckage though this time I see it coming). Early sobriety sucks. Fortunately exercise has always been a part of my sober life but you are correct-- start slow!! I didn't and have been sore for days!!! Im trying really hard to cut down on the sugar and caffeine. I just ate a huge bowl of mashed potatoes with parsley and lemon and olive oil and a cup of green peas and an apple. Beats a pint of ice cream though I probably won't gain much weight this way. I am still emaciated and it fucks with my head. The nerve damage that precipitated this whole nightmare has left my left arm looking like a chicken bone around the back shoulder area and the nerves never came back and I assume at this point never will. The task now is to try and build the muscle around the area that will not regenerate. I've also been fortunate that in the last few days to talk to a few people who seem fairly knowledgeable about sub and are very supportive. I can feel pretty isolated in the AA community if only with my own stupid thinking and fears and this is why I am very grateful for Subsux and all of you. Feeling not alone is a huge boost. Perhaps the most important thing of all. By the time I begin to seriously taper I plan on having quit smoking, regained my normal weight, built up muscle mass (don't have to worry about body fat percentage cuz I simply am unable to get fat!), survived a three week surf trip (paid for by sober friends as I do not have a dime or a job at present-- there is a lot of love out there when one makes an effort-- it is truly amazing), survive the ex GF visit this weekend, survive wearing a Halloween costume for the first time as an adult and going dancing on Halloween (scary but exciting-- trying to take myself out of my comfort zone and learn to have fun) and just not survive these things but rather THRIVE, have fun, grow as a person and hopefully help other people because when I can do that, I am in a much better place.

And to you and Cheeps and ANNA Bannana and Dcleanist and Eyedotz and everyone else I thank you all and wish you strength and grace in your endeavors to achieve a suboxone free life. It's a rollercoaster no doubt but it can be done and your support makes it that much more possible!!!
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