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Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:10 pm
by CatsMeow
How ya doing there Anna Banana? Cat needs an update! :smart:

I've finally adjusted to 2.5. The weekend was the worst. Guess it's actually a good thing that I have a full time job. Keeps me out of my head. :crazy:

When I'm adjusted, I do find it easier to do my chores around the house. I used to have to drag my ass to get things done, but it seems to be getting better the lower my dose goes. All I have to say about that is "how wonderful". :banana:

It's interesting to watch the hubs struggle to get anything done since he's on PM with the hydrocodone. He doesn't take his full RX though & I'm thankful for that. But it's sad to see the pain that he's in. But it does remind me that my life IS going to change for the better in 2018. Just gonna take a while.

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:44 pm
by cheeps
yep...your getting to the sweet spot....are colors brighter? Energy better? Any thoughts of jumping the hubs? I mean face it....sub + hydro = no sex life. I'ma gonna ROFLMAO when you report that...hehehe...

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:25 am
by CatsMeow
None of that yet cheeps. I'm still having back aches, eyes get blurry, & don't have much energy. But I do just push through & get chores done & get my work done. Sub is still a really bad thing for me. :banghead: I would guess that it will take me 6 to 8 weeks to get down to 2. :gaah: I really believe that my age (59) is working against me. The smoking doesn't help either. :deadhorse:

That's okay. I'll make it. I do enjoy dressing up for work even though I don't see many people. I don't care. It makes me feel better so I do it.

Anna, please tell me you're okay. I know you're really low now & your eyes are wonky. Just know that I'm thinking of you! :angel:

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:23 pm
by Annalo57
Hi guys. I'm still here. I'm actually at .45 now. I figured just drop the extra .01. I guess I'll drop another .04mg in a few days.

I'm just really depressed. In fact I'm typing with tears which won't seem to stop. Nothing happened. Its just one of those times which I guess is part me and part Subs. I'm tempted to type everything I'm thinking and feeling but if I do, I'll feel stupid, so I won't. Just can't stop crying. Part of me wishes i could just live alone, be alone and not have anyone expecting anything of me. I don't want to talk, I don't want to see anyone, I don't want to do anything. I want to be left alone with my thoughts and feelings and deal with them as i see fit. But I have to maintain the appearance that I'm just fine. My family knows I'm doing this taper, but they don't know what its like. They also don't understand what my mental issues are like. Whenever Ive just been honest about how I feel, it makes them uncomfortable and sometimes angry. I guess being so low on Subs after so many years of 2mg I'm starting to feel things that I don't want to feel. The stuff that got me started on this road in the first place so many years ago. Core issues. The difference now is that I'm 60 years old, I feel like hell, I look like hell, and I just don't seem to have anything to look forward to. I know how this sounds. I just don't have the things I used to fall back on when i felt inadequate. Those things are gone. I don't know. I just know I'm in a bad place, contemplating all options. Its so strange, just a couple of weeks ago i was feeling pretty good.

I am very grateful that you guys are thinking about me. Right now, you're pretty much all Ive got. I hope you're all ok.

Cat, so glad you've made it to 2.5mg. Good for you.

Anna :(

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:59 am
by cheeps
But I have to maintain the appearance that I'm just fine

No dammit, you don't. Those core issues are a part of you and too bad they don't want to deal...but they have to....and they will.

I'm hurting and feeling try to sleep dear anna....we ARE here. I'll post more when I drag my dead ass up tomorrow.

You are beautiful, you have heart, you give hope. :nono: :kiss:

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:33 am
by Annalo57
As i navigate this depression I am filled with many thoughts about myself and about the nature of life on this planet. I believe that I don't belong in the environment to which I was born and have lived my whole life. The fucking city. I hate this place, but the reality is I was born here and I will die here. If I could make a single change to the whole of my life it would be that I had left this place long long ago. I think that had I gotten the hell out of here when i had the chance (but not the courage), my life would have been so different.

I wish I could learn to be a vegetarian. I just don't know how. It doesn't help that I basically hate vegetables. But the cruelty involved in being a meat eater is becoming just impossible to bear. And lets face it. Even if I could make this huge change, would it stop whats happening out there? I don't think so. And don't get me started on the Veal industry. Veal is something i will never eat. The Veal industry is a by product of the dairy industry. It was created by the dairy industry. They figured out how to make more money on the "waste", which is what these babies are referred to as. Cows are impregnated and when they give birth the babies are then snatched away. At one time they were just left to die, but now they are put in boxes so they can't move. Then they are slaughtered. The moms are left to cry for their babies and their milk is stolen for humans. I love milk, but I can't support my own preferences given how all this is happening. No one ever talks about it. No one wants to know. How hard would it be for our lawmakers to make some changes so that animals that are bound to be food can at least live their short lives pain free and fear free? I don't think it would be that hard, but as usual in this world the almighty dollar dictates everything and rich people get richer on all this suffering. I guess I'll finally have to switch to soy or almond milk. Its a start.

I spent several years working to save death row dogs and cats from the NYC Animal "care and control" system. After a while I was curled up in a ball, weeping all the time as these lives were snuffed out every single day for no reason. I had to step away from it. But I still have hundreds of animal rescue contacts on FB and i still get stories of abuse on my feed that are quite frankly, and literally, unspeakable. I have had people tell me "I don't want to hear that" when I've tried to educate them on some things. No one wants to know what happens. :suicide2:

I was watching a show last week and they were talking about feral cats and feral dogs(lots of them in South America). They were talking about these animals as a huge problem for humans. But humans created the problem. Humans discard animals like so much garbage and they are left to survive on their own however they can. It's thoroughly disgusting. This particular problem is easily solved. Spay and neuter your pets. I have had multiple male dog owners tell me (after i have asked them why their pet isn't neutered) that they will not neuter their male dog/cat because they "could never do that to another guy." Are you shitting me??? Animals are not as obsessed with their testicles as some human males seem to be. Having owned numerous neutered male dogs and cats, I can tell you, they don't miss their balls.

The world is an ugly place and humans are an ugly species. Its time we evolved and treated all animals with respect, and that we ensure that the punishment for abusers of animals, large and small, fits the crime.

Sorry for the rant. I'm in a dark place. I just had to dump it somewhere. You guys are my dumping ground. I know I must sound a little mad. Maybe I am, but I'd rather be mad than desensitized to cruelty.

Working on making it through another day of the Sub taper. .45mg at present. It still feels like the end is far away, but I'm not wavering.


Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:35 am
by cheeps
Anna, several things are happening here.

1. Of course, good time, beautiful lovely Christmas is over...we sensitive peeps feel that loss. My client had a catastrophic event because they took down the tree. She and I had wanted to keep it up...even with just the lights. She had a TIA because she got so upset. Yes, there were other factors but I believe that symbol, that tree brought out goodness to her. It represented a purpose she used to now that the holidays we relish are over...that causes a huge let down.

2. Dealing with the fams...after seeing you somewhat cheery during Xmas, their hopes for you brightened and since they don't understand the rollercoaster, they are left wondering, then dismissing because they once again feel helpless. Men view and feel emotions and the mental differently. Our hormones are different. They tend to stuff everything and duck until they can't....then they blow. It can be blow up or blow me. But it hurts when you are so vulnerable.

3. The world we live in. As many times as we are told to make the best of each moment, each day and to find small things to be grateful about.....this taper REALLY messes us up. We cannot even do the things we did last month or last summer. Sometimes we have to put up a wall when it comes to self preservation. This is one of those times for you. I'm asking you to ignore the plight of animals you don't know for several months. This isn't the time for us to carry the world on our shoulders...we are unable to do that 24/7. So have permission to stop being guilty about this...even though it means so much to you. It will be there when you get back.

4. SVDD is helping me make changes to my diet. I've been drinking almond milk for a few years now, I prefer it now and I, like you, grew up on dairy and drank more milk than ate food. What is it about veggies you hate? At this need to make small changes....turning into a vegetarian overnight is not going to happen. I've been working on it for a few months now. I've found several types of veggies I can tolerate...if they are cooked or eaten a certain way. I actually like fucking Brussels sprouts and always cooked then with garlic but over Xmas tasted some roasted ones with ginger or something different....they were like candy, but not sweet. I'm still trying to find out who made them and what they used.. Diet changes for me mean teaching myself to taste the salt in processed pieces of food and say..."damn, that's really not so good." I've read labels for ever but SVDD has shown me a way to identify salt content by comparing sodium mgs to calories. The point anything else we need to change.....the right education is vital.. I don't want to be a vegetarian but my body does.

5. Finally because I know your eyes hurt...just a small story....I live in farming country...I'm surrounded by turkey, chicken, and hog houses. I hear and see the trucks bring them in as babies and hear them go out as adults...I've even worked in a chicken house full of 25,000 cheepers. Except for the the pickup time when they go for slaughter, they are warm, fed, and together. Sure...there are no bugs to peck and they are only headed for someone's plate. But in recent years, there has been progress on treating these animals better at pickup. That is the worst time because they are stuffed into cages together for warmth and protection against jostling and coldness of the ride. But it's the way the people handle them doing it. Tossed around like balls. Light has been shed on this and it's getting better. The hogs get better treatment even though they don't think so from the squealing you hear. I believe cows must get the worst of it....the ones we have here are treated highly as they are certain breeds. We don't do much cattle for meat farming here.

Progress is being made dear anna. But now it is time for you to put up a wall and concentrate on yourself. We feel deeply....concentrate on your core issues and not the worlds problems. Did you tell us that you were going for some therapy? And one more thing, I watched the golden many of those women were beautiful.....they were beautiful on THE INSIDE anna....not just in makeup and designer shit. The lady that won best actress probably had hippie sandels on under the very bulky plain gown she wore. Short hair, no make actress.

Excuse typos...I need to go wash my bleary eyes.

Anna, you are good, you are worthy, you are caring. You give me do so many other wonderful peeps here.

You will get thru this tough time.....just make small changes...shut down intrusive thoughts when you can and believe in yourself...I do. :pash: 8-) :kiss:

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:16 pm
by CatsMeow
My dearest Anna,
There's not much more that I can add to cheeps wonderful advice for you. Please take care of yourself. Just eat the best that you can. Make small changes, not earth shattering ones to your diet.

This is not the real you. This is the you on a damn hard sub taper. The good news is that it will end. You've tapered & tapered low & slow & you will win this race. It must be difficult on such a low dose. I feel your pain. I also volunteered at an animal shelter for years. It was truly rewarding work. But you've got to put the problems of the world on the back burner so to say. Please do this for yourself.

As far as your life & who you used to be, you're going to be the new you & you're going to be a better you. It may not feel like it now, but it's waiting for you Anna.

I pray for you every night. It's my thing. Please hang on. Dump here often. Be selfish right now. Please call or PM me anytime. I'm here for you in any way that I can.


Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:59 pm
by Annalo57
Cheeps and Cat. My girls!! How can i tell you what you mean to me?? I am constantly amazed at the level of trust that exists here on the SS forum. I trust each and every person here and i have never laid eyes on any of you. I find this to be miraculous. I think about how i found this place pretty much by accident. I think i googled Bup detox or something like that, and I saw the name SubSux on the screen. It jumped (no pun intended) out at me and i thought, thats the place for me. I could just have easily passed right over it. But I clicked on it. Nothing has been the same since. This forum has changed my life in a very profound way. You ladies have changed my life. My other fellow taperers and jumpers have changed my life. I don't just mean the taper. I mean you have changed the way I think. You have restored my failed faith in human beings. I find comfort here that I cannot find anywhere else. It almost makes me believe in some sort of God. Almost I said, lets not get carried away. ;)

I'm going through a rough time right now. Its all mental. But I know it will pass eventually. And I know that I can come here and purge myself. I cannot put a price on that.

So thank you my girls. Thank you to everyone here. The taper continues, come hell or high water I will complete it. What follows is anyone's guess. I think that I'm going to have to try to address the smoking issue sooner rather than later, and I think this scares me more than anything. I don't know why, but it does. Ive done so many unhealthy things in my life and Ive gotten away with them. I'm not going to get away with this for much longer. I need to choose being able to breath on my own or walking around with an oxygen tank. This is the first real permanent consequence of my bad behaviors. And of course, I don't like it one bit. :gaah:

There goes my brain again, jumping around like a jack rabbit. I'll stop now. Just know that I love you all. I bring some negative shit here, i know that. As soon as I have some positive thoughts, I'll bring them too. :shrug:

Anna :banana:

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:46 am
by cheeps
I think that smoking talk is pretty positive as you know so many of us do smoke. It's an issues with me too. Being on SAOs just makes them taste so good sometimes. Stress makes them so good....but yes, the idea of a tank.....not good at all. Keep throwing that image in my's a damn good one to think about when the urge strikes.

And you know negativity is part of the taper...the whole damn process.

But when you get to read smots thread, some of that goes away....he's dancing the Louisiana jig right now.

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:54 pm
by CatsMeow
I smoke too & it's been much heavier since I've been on subs. I've tried to switch to an ecig, but I just can't get one to stick. It's something that I must also address Anna. I'm sorry that yours has escalated the way it has. After all you've done, it just doesn't seem fair. But life isn't really fair I suppose.

I hope you're doing better today. Your dedication to this long slow taper is beyond reproach. I intend to follow in your footsteps. So leave the light on for me...

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:27 pm
by Subverted DietDoc
Cat and Anna...

This time next year (sooner really, it’s more an expression). You will both be long free of subs and cigs. You can see the people that want it badly enough and it’s so clearly both of you.

Anything you choose to do will be done, period.

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:30 pm
by CatsMeow
Thanks for that SDD. It's hard to stay positive sometimes. I've had a difficult issue going on this week. I broke down & cried for 2 hours last night. My eyes are all swollen & I couldn't go to work. But the issue reversed itself earlier today & I'm over the moon.

I'm just glad that I cried it out last night. It was good for me. Real life stuff. But today I'm over the moon. Just regular happy stuff, again real life stuff. Even at 2.5 I feel my life coming back. Real life. Ya know?

Anna & I will make it. It might be a little more difficult due to our ages, but I believe that we will win this war. Then I'll get after those cigs. Anna has to deal with it now though. Sending blessings your way Anna.

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:10 pm
by Annalo57
Cheeps, Cat, SDD. I can't say enough about you guys and everyone here on SS. I'm gonna be short winded now, but I have to say that you guys give me so much strength. Sometimes I feel so low, but i come and I read for as long as my eyes and brain will allow, and I feel so propped up. Thank you for propping me up, and for letting me vent my demons, and for never ever making me feel as if I'm being a drama queen or anything. And blessings should rain down in monsoon style upon each of your lovely heads.

Cat. I'm happy you're over the moon. And crying is good for you. i do it all the time.

I'm not quite ready to start the Chantix yet, but I'm trying to prepare myself for what i honestly believe may be the hardest quit of all.

Tomorrow I'm going to drop my dose from .45 to .4. Unless you guys think I should make it a little smaller drop. I am waiting for the drops to get more difficult. Its a bit scary to be this low but I think its gonna be ok. Physically this has been way smoother than i originally anticipated. As Ive said many times, the mental shit is hard, but at least I can sit in it. I am very grateful for that since i have past experience with Heroin/methadone wds which are hellish and I definitely could not sit in. Last time I was put in restraints lest I hurt myself or anyone else with my flopping and swinging at everything. I woke up from being sedated to find myself on Subs. I feel very blessed that none of that ugly shit is happening. KNOCK WOOD!!! Hopefully the mental shit will start to dissipate when I'm through this whole thing.

My love to you all

Anna banana :banana:

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:25 pm
by cheeps
I think that drop is reasonable but when was your last drop? How many days ago?

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:46 am
by Annalo57
Cheeps, last drop was Dec 28. I think I'm good to go.

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:19 am
by SubJumpa
Heh Anna,

Hope your doing well today and the mental shit has subsided a bit..wanted to say your kickin ass with this taper!! I know for me each drop below .5 gave me that little extra bit of strength and courage I needed to make it through. it's such a unique experience being reborn again, learning how to interact with people and loved ones and even myself has been challenging but I wouldn't trade it for the world.. It's so cool that all the good people tapering here are going to be able to experience a whole new life as well!! Fucking inspiring! Anyways just wanted to pop
In and say keep kickin ass and one day soon you will be free again!!

Always my best, T

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:01 pm
by CatsMeow
Hi Anna. I hope you're doing okay today. I'm sorry the mental shit is getting you. Interesting what Tim said about drops under .5. SDD just said the same thing too. Keep holding on. I believe that it's going to get better for you. I really do!

I whole heartedly agree with you that you should not start Chantix during your sub taper. That shit fucked with my head bad. They even say so on their commercials! At some point you may entertain other solutions such as vaping or the patch or even the gum. There are other ways than Chantix. But I feel that its just all too much for you right now.

I sure hope your drop to .4 goes smoothly my dear. You're getting so close & you're doing amazing. I know the mental is hard but you are strong. I believe that you're stronger than you realize. We will do this Anna! :kiss:

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:45 pm
by Annalo57
Hey Tim!!!! So nice of you to stop in and to be as always so supportive. You sound so awesome. I'm so happy for you and really proud of you. You give all of us here inspiration and belief. You sir, are a role model. How do you like them apples.

And Cat, you know how I feel about you. You always make me feel better.

Today is day one on .4mg. Now I finally feel like I've made real progress. I know Ive been making progress all along but to be at .4 is pretty big. I started the liquid at 1.5mg in September. At least I think so, I may have to go back and double check. The memory is really bad. Im curious to see if it gets better after the taper, or if its just a function of age. I guess I'll find out.

The brain os just so fuzzy all the time. But I will stay the course. I get impatient but I know that to get where I want to go, long and slow is my only option.

Today my beloved Rangers laid an egg after 5 days off. They lost 7-2 in what was perhaps their worst game of the season. To the goddamn Islanders!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Keep on keepin' on everyone. We can all do this. Its just takes patience. I don't have any doubts that I will step off this evil drug relatively soon.

For today I'm not thinking too much about the smoking issue. Just not ready. My cousin the doctor says to focus on the taper and deal with the smoking later. She says is took 45+ years to do the damage I've done, a few more months won't make a big difference. I hope she is right.

Enjoy your weekend everyone.
Anna banana :banana:

Re: My liquid taper

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:23 am
by Annalo57
HI everyone. Today is day 3 on .2mg twice a day. So far so good, though I know its a bit soon to know if the drop will cause any increased wds. I'm pretty confident it will be ok.

I'm feeling better mentally the past couple of days. Last week was pretty crummy. Hopefully this feeling more even keeled will last for a while.

I hope all my SubSux family is doing well today.

Anna, one day closer to the end, banana :banana: