Day 10 after 7 yrs

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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:30 am

6 months

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
:shred: :shred: :shred: :shred: :shred: :shred:

For the last 2 months or so I am completely exhausted, like I can't even make it 12 hours through the day without falling asleep for a few hours. Needless to say my sleep cycle is always a mess, there are times when I have to nap for 2 hours on top of the 7-8 hours per night I'm getting. Wait, I think I may have a permanent lead suit on. It's either the lead suit or I'm slowly dying of some horrible yet unknown condition that is taking all my energy to stave off. Oh man, I think I just realized I've been wearing the lead suit for 2 months straight. Holy flying fuck me. Is this possible?
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:59 am

Congrats on six months man!! Thanks for sticking around an sharing your experience with those of us that are striving to be where you are someday!! It helps to know what we're in for... Peace T
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:26 am

Thanks T, maybe it's not a lead suit, more like a copper one but I thought I'd get away scot-free by 6 months. Sadly not the case. I had plans for this post-sub phase which didn't include taking a year to get healthy but hey, it is what it is. Thing is though, it's much easier on this side, my frustration comes from struggling with routine and energy. Probably normal for PAWS I just thought maybe I could squeak by and I'm learning that's not happening. Couple more months should put me closer to where I want to be. I was scared of PAWS before I quit reading up on it too, but it's more frustrating that you're not healed yet although it's not that surprising considering my length of use. The difference is that I can re-assess February 1st and 60 days is nothing, not a struggle at all. I'm probably just pissy I can't "take the world by storm" like I thought I'd be able to, YET.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby cheeps » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:54 am

Ask your wife if you snore or seem to stop breathing during some sleep cycles...it is possible you have mild sleep apnea....mine is severe but even a little apnea can make you fell exhausted. It's worth looking into. It really fucks up your stage three and four sleep...the REM stages. Do you feel like you dream at all?


Congrats and yes....you are normal but I think you should be evaluated. They have little monitors that you can wear at night to see if you need a sleep study.


You will get better just keep trudging through!
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:01 pm

yea thats not a bad idea Cheeps, I do wake up every 2-3 hours or so. I'll check it out. Thx.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:02 am

Ok so I found out I have celiac disease and lactose intolerance so I can't eat any bread, pasta, cookies, cakes, milk, ice cream, yogurt etc. this is why i've been so exhausted and feeling so shitty, i've had some pretty bad nutrient deficiencies which is why I haven't gained much weight even after subs. Good news is that it's getting a lot better now that I've avoided these foods even though I miss them sometimes lol. Energy is better, mood is better, focus is better. This was definitely contributing on my RLS as I basically had inflammation of several organs. I went to the eye doctor for ridiculous amount of discharge and he said my retina has inflammation (put me on steroids), went to the stomach doctor and got an endoscopy and I had gastritis, inflammation of the stomach lining. So I put 2 + 2 together and went to a nutritionist who has confirmed what I've been waiting many years to hear. I'm sure it's just another piece of the puzzle but it's a big one. Finally can start looking to the future and getting myself healthy so I can do the things I want from my time here. I was always so mindfucked with "why do I feel so sick, why does my stomach hurt". I spent over 15 years replaying that shitty tape of thoughts in my head. Finally I have at least part of an answer. Why is it always so hard to un-fuck yourself when getting there in the 1st place was so easy?
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Eyedotz » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:24 pm

It is very strange how after getting off subs that a lot of physical ailments reveal themselves...I'm very glad that you were able to figure out what was going on with your stomach issues. I had silent gerd for almost a year off subs (PAWS) but has subsided significantly. My body had to get used to not being drowned in opioids everyday, I guess.

One thing that caught my attention though... you mentioned retinal inflammation... VERY strange how the disease I was recently diagnosed with (MACTEL2) also has to do with inflammation of the retina (as well as leaking capillaries that cause damage). The macular of my eye has fluid pockets from the inflammation. I would be very curious to see how many other long-term sub users experience retinal issues. I am very young to be diagnosed with this condition and I can't help but wonder if sub played a part. There are so many things we don't know about long term effects of that poison. Anyway, just thought I'd mention that particularly interesting tidbit...

Glad you're still hanging in there S4S... :cheers2:
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby CatsMeow » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:55 pm

Wow, just wow! I'm so glad that you've gotten all of these ailments diagnosed & are on the road to recovery. This is very good information to have S4S. I'm going to watch out for these things too. At this point I just blame everything on the sub taper. But as I get lower & jump, I may also find that there are real things wrong that need to be addressed.

I have a very low opinion of Dr.'s right now after the big sub screw over. I'm obviously going to have to get over this. Thanks for filling us in!

I'm just glad that you've addressed the issues and are feeling better. Here's hoping that you get well very very soon & begin to reap the rewards of ridding yourself from subs/opy's. You deserve it!
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby cheeps » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:36 pm

Sub4Sevenyrs wrote:Ok so I found out I have celiac disease and lactose intolerance so I can't eat any bread, pasta, cookies, cakes, milk, ice cream, yogurt etc. this is why i've been so exhausted and feeling so shitty, i've had some pretty bad nutrient deficiencies which is why I haven't gained much weight even after subs. Good news is that it's getting a lot better now that I've avoided these foods even though I miss them sometimes lol. Energy is better, mood is better, focus is better. This was definitely contributing on my RLS as I basically had inflammation of several organs. I went to the eye doctor for ridiculous amount of discharge and he said my retina has inflammation (put me on steroids), went to the stomach doctor and got an endoscopy and I had gastritis, inflammation of the stomach lining. So I put 2 + 2 together and went to a nutritionist who has confirmed what I've been waiting many years to hear. I'm sure it's just another piece of the puzzle but it's a big one. Finally can start looking to the future and getting myself healthy so I can do the things I want from my time here. I was always so mindfucked with "why do I feel so sick, why does my stomach hurt". I spent over 15 years replaying that shitty tape of thoughts in my head. Finally I have at least part of an answer. Why is it always so hard to un-fuck yourself when getting there in the 1st place was so easy?



You and subverted diet doc need to get together. He has taught me so much about my gut issues. We have to go plant based vegetarian to get our systems back in check. Nutrition is DDs specialty. He works for Joel Furhman, the nutriarian guy. I also have what you have but not as badly. It won't take long for you to fix this with diet.

I'm so fucking happy that you'll be able to get this straightened out!!!! It's huge! :cheers: :cheers:
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:52 am

Thanks dotz, cat and cheeps. I'm just glad I can focus on other things throughout the day aside from how sick and pain I always was. And after 20 years of that shit, it fucks you up emotionally. I'm really just hoping to string together a few months of feeling well so I can get some distance from those repetitive negative thoughts and find a new normal. I tend to focus a lot of thoughts as an indication of health bc I feel like thoughts can change your biochemistry by the release of hormones which directly affect emotions. If you think of something scary, you will release adrenaline and be scared. If you think of a beach, you will release acetylcholine and be relaxed. And dotz, I know about your eyes and I have no idea how you feel but just reading your posts I feel for you, really scary stuff (having emotions sucks somtimes/most times), I'll keep getting the eye checked periodically along with everything else though.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Eyedotz » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 pm

Thank you my friend, I am dealing with the eye thing ok. At this point, I'm just taking it as it comes. I've learned a lot of patience in the past couple years and this is just another test. I have a lot of light sensitivity which is somewhat blinding until my eyes adjust, I have a lot of blurring until my eyes adjust and I have some issue with fine detail... like trying to discern the difference between some numbers and letters. There are small dead spots so I need to shift my eyes constantly. The only thing that is terrifying at this point is the thought I won't be able to see sunsets/cool clouds anymore.

Yes, please 'everyone'.... make sure you go for your routine eye exams. It is extremely important. Also, I would love to find out if there is a correlation with sub and retina/macular damage. Maybe there isn't.... but sub definitely had a long-term effect on my body.

S4S... you are a good dude. Emotional changes come and go and hormones have a lot to do with it... I totally agree with you there. I try to stay positive because I know that negativity breeds in my mind. Now that you've been off for a while, do you find that you think more?....like that things that wouldn't bother you on subs, affect you now? That was a big change, at least for me. Hugz dudez, dotz
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:05 pm

A degree in biochemistry is first class. It’s my favorite. I’ve had years of biochemistry. Probably to best over all understating of the human body if I had to pick one because it covers physiology and organic chemistry.

Anyway, I’m writing for one main reason...I read your whole thread a while back but it’s easy to lose track of who did what. I forgot you jumped off of 1 mg (this time). I’m sure compared to your 6 mg jump it was easier but you describe it as very easy. Wasn’t that really painful?

I wanted to ask...do you know for sure how suboxone film is produced? I read some technical specs that it’s a uniform spray process. I’m going to reach out to the manufacturer tomorrow. I’m going to tell them I work with the NIH in Washington (which is true, just not at the moment haha). As long as they don’t feel threatened and I ask the question in the right way I might get an answer.

What do you want to do with your degree? Lab work? Grad school? What ever you want you’ll do great. You accomplished all that while battling addiction issues and suboxone...most people don’t get as far as you without other challenges or obstacles. You’re the warrior.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby cheeps » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:12 pm

He's kicking ass and taking names....it won't be long before he quits thinking about this shit.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:42 am

Thanks guys. I may be passed the sub-induced problems but I still have a ton of shit to get through with my health. I'm just trying to keep moving forward, away from sub-use and toward better health. I remember reading up on people who claimed to have issues after subs and I remember thinking "if you get passed the addiction, you're in the clear bc you would have had those problems anyway". Maybe it's true but I just feel like my health issues have replaced my sub issues sometimes. Do me a favor, enjoy your day or life no matter what the situation, no matter if you're on subs or oxys or whatever your pleasure is. If you think you're having a good time, you are. If you think you're having a hard time, you are. It's that simple.

SDD- I remember reading it somewhere, can't remember where and I can't find it again. I only remember it bc of it's relation to cutting strips and it wasn't recommended for that reason, bc the nalaxone was "brushed on" so it may not be perfectly uniform. It may be total bullshit if you cant find anything on it, maybe I read something from a shitty source that stuck in my head. But it wouldn't matter anyway if you were using a liquid taper and dissolving the entire strip.

Another thing is I think people push too hard with the taper, it puts too much stress on the body over a prolonged period. I'm not sure jumping at 0.03 is any better than jumping at 0.3. The hardest part for me wasn't jumping from 1mg, it was just stopping taking something altogether. It didn't matter if I was on 0.25, I would have wanted it tomorrow anyway. 0.25 is just a number, especially if it gives me the same feeling as I had before, I'm going to want it just as much as the higher dose. The jump is the hardest part, that first day you take zero. After that decision is made and you get through day 1, then day 2...it's easy to never look back, IF that's what you want. But the chord is cut at that point bc you broke the cycle so you won't have the same physical pull to the drug. Sure you know you could take it all away if you took some sub but that would put you right back in the middle of the storm you were desperate to get out of.

My thing is this, the taper is the fucking worst part of the entire ordeal. It's just grinds you down to nothing on all levels. None of us signed up to be in constant withdrawal for months/years straight, it's fucking crazy if you think about it. The longer you take subs, the more your body needs (not less) to maintain homeostasis. The body is efficient at extracting what it needs, it gets more efficient by putting more energy into making resources that the body thinks is important (for example, opiate receptors). You are literally fighting the efficiency and evolution of your body by tapering and killing off those receptors (the one thing the body has received everyday for x number of years). At some point, you are better off jumping and letting your body establish a completely new normal, a clean slate. That's my take. I don't have 1/10000000th the willpower of someone like Dotz who tapered to nothing. I just said fuck it and jumped bc trying to taper anymore was impossible for me and I wanted out. For me it was either stop altogether or take more, like a lot more to establish a real normal. I was done playing the taper game. The constant withdrawal was literally killing my soul. That's why now I say enjoy your life even if you're on subs. It took pieces of me that I won't get back, at least not anytime soon. The guilt from constant failure, the pressure to conform other people's idea of "normal". Those parts don't vanish with the sub. You know what does vanish after the sub though? That propeller that pushes you through everything in life. I'm like a beached sailboat over here but fuck it, the view is great.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby cheeps » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:54 am

You seriously remind me of my friend freeagain. He has also expressed much of the same emotional toll. He told me it took him two years to finally quit feeling Sub feelings and he is still learning and accepting his new normal. Yes, take the little good, the beautiful, the small contentments wherever and whenever they come up.

I love hearing your thoughts, your honesty, and anything you have to say.....peeps learn from teachers like you. But you must promise never to forget us because I still believe your time of healing will continue for another year....we need you during that year.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:35 am

Cheeps that was very kind of you to say, thx. I'm just lucky to have somewhere to discuss this crap with ppl who get it while I try to keep my sanity going through this mess.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby cheeps » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:18 am

I suggested neurofeedback to mojo....go look at the last page in his thread.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:22 pm

I notice a really bad day is usually followed by a few good days. I guess it's a fair trade, doesn't always feel like it but something happened this last time, something just clicked. Just feeling better, lighter. I can move, exercise. I'm not falling asleep every few hours either. Waking up early a lot too. Sleep getting better. Been a long time coming with all this. 2018 should bring many gifts.
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby cheeps » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:15 pm

Sub4Sevenyrs wrote:I notice a really bad day is usually followed by a few good days. I guess it's a fair trade, doesn't always feel like it but something happened this last time, something just clicked. Just feeling better, lighter. I can move, exercise. I'm not falling asleep every few hours either. Waking up early a lot too. Sleep getting better. Been a long time coming with all this. 2018 should bring many gifts.


reverse it....good days....followed by a bad day!! :mrgreen: very good news no matter how you think about it. That CNS is healing and I'm sure you are relieved and thankful! :cheers:
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Re: Day 10 after 7 yrs

Postby CatsMeow » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:35 pm

This is such great news! Glad those bad days are getting less frequent. You're an inspiration to many here at SS. Please keep updating so that we know this can be done!

Happy Holidays!
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