Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby mimiluv » Tue May 09, 2017 9:30 am

I could barely function on my taper either. I was lucky I didn't have to work outside the home, but i Had kids at home. You can do this, it sucks but YOU WILL GET BETTER!! WTG you're doing great.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu May 11, 2017 6:01 am

So idk, I keep losing posts.... I guess the whole board is having issues. I'm doing ok physically. Mentally I feel like a looney tune a lot of the time.. but thankfully not right now. At 1.25.. hopefully it won't be a hard drop.
I still have a bunch of friends in aa/na... it sucks id like to go see them but I can't til I'm done my taper.. tapering doesn't fit into the 12 step dogma.. and I think it would make my friends uncomfortable.
It sucks when I felt like I was bugging out the other day I emailed one of my closest friends I had when I was in that club.. he offered to fly my out to Chicago and to kick in his home and chill with him the next couple months.. it made me sad because it's a very generous offer but I just don't want to do the 12 step thing. It's not for me. I'd still like to have the friends I made while I was there tho.. mayb after I get done my taper.
Anywho.. hope y'all have a good day.. and I hope this post posts..
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu May 11, 2017 6:04 am

Oh, and cheeps.. I was reading ur thread the other day.. I hope ur feeling better
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby A7dream » Thu May 11, 2017 10:48 am

Hey there Mojo

I had posted in your thread a few days ago, but I don't see it now. Either I did something wrong or the site was acting up, idk. :shrug: So what it basically said was that I didn't realize you were doing your taper right now too, I read your thread because the header caught my attention, looks like your a long timer too. We will keep on making progress....Good to see your still here and moving forward too.

:wave:
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Fri May 12, 2017 3:07 pm

nomojo3479 wrote:So idk, I keep losing posts.... I guess the whole board is having issues. I'm doing ok physically. Mentally I feel like a looney tune a lot of the time.. but thankfully not right now. At 1.25.. hopefully it won't be a hard drop.
I still have a bunch of friends in aa/na... it sucks id like to go see them but I can't til I'm done my taper.. tapering doesn't fit into the 12 step dogma.. and I think it would make my friends uncomfortable.
It sucks when I felt like I was bugging out the other day I emailed one of my closest friends I had when I was in that club.. he offered to fly my out to Chicago and to kick in his home and chill with him the next couple months.. it made me sad because it's a very generous offer but I just don't want to do the 12 step thing. It's not for me. I'd still like to have the friends I made while I was there tho.. mayb after I get done my taper.
Anywho.. hope y'all have a good day.. and I hope this post posts..





Mojo...that sucks so bad! I guess this is why many of us don't like aa and end up here or in a smart recovery . But other groups are hard to find unless you are in the big city.

I say, you could explain to them? That's just bullshit though. They should accept you as having the desire to get off.....shit! :gaah: :gaah:

I mean dammit...you are doing this and you are going to do it. Where do you live? Send me addy and I'll send you a kick in the pants!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :thumbup: :lol:
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Sun May 14, 2017 4:50 am

Dang it.. lost another post,
Basically it was just a shout out to cheeps.. (u always make me smile:). Thank u. I hope ur taper is going ok...

A7.. hope all is alright.. keep hangin in there
And cheezeanndee I hope ur feeling stronger and healthier by the day.

It's snowing at my house right now. Wtf mid may... come on.

I'm feeling alright. @1.25.. starting to realize I'm gonna have to go slow if I have a lot of work to get done.. I can only handle so much.
Oh also my suboxone strip supply was running low.. I was only able to find subutex pills.. I've heard and read that they are more potent per mg than the sub strips.. I don't wanna raise my tolerance when I have to switch over so I was wondering if anyone had any guidelines for how much less to take of the subutex.. was thinking if trying 1mg of subutex instead of the 1.25mg of suboxone strip I'm currently at... or something like that. Any input is appreciated.
Peace y'all
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Sun May 14, 2017 10:42 am

You can try that and see how it goes....you know what to expect by now....just time it so that you are somewhat busy three days after....that way IF you experience a big change...you'll know it will go away in a few days. You'll know it the transition and while it may seem yucky...you know exactly what it is and you'll be able to push thru. No spiking...once you do it...live with it.

While we don't like minor wds, knowing what the deal is allows us to dump the Fear of discomfort.

Or....you may find no difference at all. Don't fear...just do. :smart:
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Eyedotz » Sun May 14, 2017 11:35 am

I'm not sure the difference between subutex and suboxone (as far as potency) but I ended up switching from suboxone to the strips and the strips were super strong to me. I ended up lowering my dose by 25% to make up for the strength. I'm sure how it effects you will vary... all I can say is try it and adjust if necessary. Good job so far... just keep on cashing in the days.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Fri May 26, 2017 3:08 am

So I went to my local mental heath/drug treatment center today. I was feeling sick of tapering on my own and wanted to see if they knew of anyplace that would take me to do a sub detox.. this fuckin guy sit me down in his office and hands me a piece of paper with like 10 sub drs on it.. n I was like no I wanna get off sub, not get a new sub dr. The guy says it's really not a good idea to try to stop and there aren't any places that he knows of that do more than 15 day detox anyway. The whole meeting was super depressing... I thanked him for his time and left.
It's unbelievable to me that the rehab industry has nada for people to detox from sub or methadone.. anyway still at 1.25... kinda stuck at this dose right now.. may try dropping again soon I hope
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Eyedotz » Fri May 26, 2017 6:41 am

Dude, you can do this man. Of course they don't want to help you… You are a cash cow.

IMO - a typical detox won't work the same for sub because of the insidious nature of it. All I can say is, if I can do it... you can. You need to soul search and really dedicate yourself to the process. Being at 1.25 isn't easy to get to after maintaining at a higher dose, you just need to take this shit slow and steady. There is no easy way out of this and every drop must be scheduled and rigid. If you do 10% drops every 2 weeks like I did, you will have little trouble with symptom management. Yes, you will be tired and exhausted everyday for a long time but you will get use to it. Getting use to feeling like shit and the repetition of drops will give you strength and confidence for your next drop. Tapering does not last forever and you will develop this confidence in time... Please think of the big picture. If you want to have sub out of your life for good... you have to work very hard to make it a reality. It is worth it Mono. You can do this, my friend.
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JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CheeZeeAnnDee » Fri May 26, 2017 7:17 am

Yeah man, that's a bummer. It does seem that there aren't many professionals willing to help people taper off, maybe because nobody wants to be the guy who takes someone off bupe only to have that patient relapse onto street dope. Especially now with so many people ODing out there.

The good news is, you can do it yourself if you really want to.

It is as simple as you want it to be, or as complicated...god knows I made it fucking complicated for myself at times, looking up different tactics online, reading bluelight in the hopes someone out there had found the 'secret' to a painless detox, obsessing about bupe's pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics, daydreaming about switching to SAOs and hitting myself with ibogaine, daydreaming about getting hit by a fucking car because comparatively that would be like winning a vacation, etc. And that's all well and good, but it never made a difference, because it is just one of those things. You just keep going.

Not to beat the dead horse or anything, but I really feel like the following rules are a decent way of getting off:

1) You are the only boss. No one else will prevent you from using and no one else will shove that shit in your mouth. So accept that you are the god here and you are in total control.

2) Never ever go up in your daily dose, even if you have a big meeting or your car exploded, or your dog got eaten by the crazy neighbor next door.

3) Every so often, decrease your dose, even by the tinest amount. Don't get stuck - think of the dumb fucker who decided to walk through hot coals and got half way across only to hesitate. Now he's stuck in the middle, burning the shit out of his feet even more, because that long path in front of him psyched him out. Can't get out unless you go through. An easy way to avoid ruts when you are feeling shitty is to drop a tiny amount, every few days, just to keep going.

I don't know, in retrospect, that set of rules seems to contradict the whole AA mantra of being helpless, so do what works for you. But for me, they got me to the end. So keep going man. If you really and truly are ready to be done, keep going. It will take forever to get to the end, until you are at the end, and then you'll think, 'holy fuck, I am done.'

And read some success stories. Actually read all kinds of threads, because after reading enough threads where people fail to get off subs, you can get a feeling of where the weak point was in their taper or jump, and try not to go the same route. But end your reading with some successes! It helps knowing its all been done before, and that there are people walking around out there, as you sit there sweating and exhausted and twitching, who have been there, suffered like you have, and are now doing pretty fucking all right.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby A7dream » Fri May 26, 2017 11:01 am

nomojo3479 wrote:
It's unbelievable to me that the rehab industry has nada for people to detox from sub or methadone.. anyway still at 1.25... kinda stuck at this dose right now.. may try dropping again soon I hope


LOOK OUT HERE COMES ANOTHER RANT....
OH OH OH MOJO, don't get me started. Oooops too late, you couldn't be more correct about that! I just got heated this past week because childhood bf who I've known for 37 yrs doesn't know anything about me being addicted to any of this shit ( Methadone & Sub ) so she calls me up this past tues to tell me her step daughter has had a 10 yr addiction to Oxy's and that she went through like 400 tabs in a little over a month or some crzy shit like that. They paid for her to go to an out patient to get "clean" off oxys but they put her on , you guessed it.... Subhell
they don't have any intention of weaning her down , in fact they literally told her and her step mom (my bf) that SUB was A WONDERDRUG!!! can you fucking believe that shit ! I told her go to Sub SUx and read what people say about that drug. Don't believe everything theyre telling you , they could care less if she's really clean and or if ever gets off an Opiate. They pretty much look at a 10 yr user as never stopping anytime soon. I told her to educate herself and know that is a business , they are there to make money. They get paid to pretend to care, and get paid to somewhat do their job so long as it looks good on paper. Of course she was like " REALLY?" you mean they really don't care? Even after she explained how callus and cold they treated them, she was shocked.
So I'm sorry your feeling tired and want this train to stop but please bear with me, I'm not much behind you. Ive been on SUb for nearly 8 yrs now methadone for 20 so ....believe me I feel your pain, I really do. But probably what theyd do is just give you comfort meds because they don't even dose below 2 mg. Last I knew they don't really have a successful detox strategy. They keep people on that high of a dose so they can't stop, unless they wanna go through a good bit of withdrawal . Don't sweat changing to liquid after you've cut those strips down as far as you can. Your gonna be alright , everyone here knows what your feeling. I had worries too, but I think that's the addiction :evil: talking more than any truth.

hugs
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat May 27, 2017 8:34 am

I love y'all. I'm gonna be ok, n I'm gonna get off. I was just thinking at the time I stopped in for the appointment with the rehab people that it'd be nice to take a vacation from work and my wife and just kick for a month or two (instead of tapering for the next 6 months at the pace I'm going)... but apparently sub detox isn't a thing.
So I'll have to suck it up and keep working and dealing with a wife who expects me to be happy, chipper and social (while I feel like warmed over vomit)..
I just daydream about a nice stress free detox with a nice daily dose of phenobarbital.. (god I wish that was a drug I could find on the street).. probably good that I can't tho, I'd end up hooked on that also... but god it worked great for heroin detox back in the day.
Anyway, I guess I'm just frustrated that I haven't been able to go faster. I had sort of a mental breakdown a few weeks back (wicked anxiety, and a random plane trip to Florida and back hoping a different locale would change how I was feeling (it didn't)).. but I feel totally stable now at 1.25.. so I'll drop again tomo.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat May 27, 2017 8:37 am

And thanks a7, eyedotz, cheezeanndee and cheeps. U ladies have helped me a good deal more than you know. thank u
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat May 27, 2017 8:42 am

Oh and cheese.. I like ur rules.. I don't believe in powerlessness. If I did, I might as well shotgun myself now cause there ain't no bearded deity looking to hand out favors and or sobriety (or is there).. lol..
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Sat May 27, 2017 12:34 pm

nomojo3479 wrote:Oh and cheese.. I like ur rules.. I don't believe in powerlessness. If I did, I might as well shotgun myself now cause there ain't no bearded deity looking to hand out favors and or sobriety (or is there).. lol..



I think we all have a tendency to hedge our bets with god. When you've been taught from birth to believe...and then question the realities of what a god can or can't do...it's easy to get uneasy.

I tend to put any higher powers back into the admirable part of what the human race can achieve by being supportive. I just can't attach the Good to a deity. Our brains evolved and if I had to say what a power would be in the human body....I believe it would be the endocrine system. Our hormones drive us and when they get out of whack... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Sat May 27, 2017 12:39 pm

A7dream wrote:
nomojo3479 wrote:
It's unbelievable to me that the rehab industry has nada for people to detox from sub or methadone.. anyway still at 1.25... kinda stuck at this dose right now.. may try dropping again soon I hope


LOOK OUT HERE COMES ANOTHER RANT....
OH OH OH MOJO, don't get me started. Oooops too late, you couldn't be more correct about that! I just got heated this past week because childhood bf who I've known for 37 yrs doesn't know anything about me being addicted to any of this shit ( Methadone & Sub ) so she calls me up this past tues to tell me her step daughter has had a 10 yr addiction to Oxy's and that she went through like 400 tabs in a little over a month or some crzy shit like that. They paid for her to go to an out patient to get "clean" off oxys but they put her on , you guessed it.... Subhell
they don't have any intention of weaning her down , in fact they literally told her and her step mom (my bf) that SUB was A WONDERDRUG!!! can you fucking believe that shit ! I told her go to Sub SUx and read what people say about that drug. Don't believe everything theyre telling you , they could care less if she's really clean and or if ever gets off an Opiate. They pretty much look at a 10 yr user as never stopping anytime soon. I told her to educate herself and know that is a business , they are there to make money. They get paid to pretend to care, and get paid to somewhat do their job so long as it looks good on paper. Of course she was like " REALLY?" you mean they really don't care? Even after she explained how callus and cold they treated them, she was shocked.
So I'm sorry your feeling tired and want this train to stop but please bear with me, I'm not much behind you. Ive been on SUb for nearly 8 yrs now methadone for 20 so ....believe me I feel your pain, I really do. But probably what theyd do is just give you comfort meds because they don't even dose below 2 mg. Last I knew they don't really have a successful detox strategy. They keep people on that high of a dose so they can't stop, unless they wanna go through a good bit of withdrawal . Don't sweat changing to liquid after you've cut those strips down as far as you can. Your gonna be alright , everyone here knows what your feeling. I had worries too, but I think that's the addiction :evil: talking more than any truth.

hugs
:kiss:



I LOVE this damn rant!! I hope the person will immediately reduce the hell out of her dose and try to get off. And while that may not happen, you at least warned her to educate herself. Pat yourself on the back. I hope she doesn't fall for the wondersubshit hook, line, and sinker.


And oh HELL YEAH.....Freddie the Fucker is screaming in MOJOs ear big time. Taking that trip did screw you up...it put you way out of your comfort zone and that set ole Freddie off big time. Slap the shit out of him MOJO. :spank: :mrgreen:
10 yrs on methadone
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Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Tue May 30, 2017 12:10 pm

Sub-op...I went ahead and split your post from mojos. It will kinda get lost in this one so everyone, please go there to catch up with sub-op.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3437
10 yrs on methadone
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby sub-optimal » Tue May 30, 2017 8:49 pm

Oh no problem....was trying to be supportive and then a big long story spilled out!
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby DietDoc » Wed May 31, 2017 4:07 am

Nomo...I've been reading all night am caught up on your ride. Good job. The last dose you cited was 1.25, did you drop?
You and I have very similar pasts and presents. I believe I hit the Decade of Sub Club, and our current dosages are very close. I say we see this through together. Only maybe we can go to the Ibogaine center is Costa Rica because they got these waterfalls there that are insaine, I'm just saying. Even more incommon, I was just thinking about what I can do to connect with any more resources to help me, so I was considering NA. I had gone through my 'find 12 step Jesus' phase 20 years ago when first I realized I had an addiction. It probably helped me back then but now I just do t see it. They're all either addiction nazis or it's a place to score and hook up, not a lot of independant thought there.

Maybe we should pool resources and open the first 90 day residential program for gentle sub tapering. I do know of a place in Northern California that will taper you as slow as you want to go, eat 100% healthy, do yoga etc. but at 250.00/day I'd say it's cost prohibitive hahah. But it does exhist.

Anyway...I'd like to keep up with your progress, share your ups and support you in the downs. Keep those up dates coming.

Best-

DD
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
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