Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:02 am

Not that I'll need it for awhile but it'll feel good to have all the tools to get the job done on hand.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Subblind » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:05 am

Awesome looking ahead MOJO...have no guilt my friend,be proud of the path your on and let these girls walk you down it...they know their shit.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:26 pm

You be able too go into any drug store or chemist and ask the druggist for what you need. They should get what you need without question. If they do ask just tell them you need one to dole out dog meds and the vet said they didn't have any on hand. Cheez and dotz may have better answer.

Sindysun and Jules, our first members to describe liquid taper, have threads that go into great detail. Search sindy suns posts....she had two. One is pre jump, the other is post Jump.

It's hard for me to find it on my phone.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:30 pm

Here's is a link.

viewtopic.php?t=2722
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CheeZeeAnnDee » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:58 pm

I personally really liked the liquid taper route, but I will say that if you use straight EtOH beverages, it burns like fuck and it increases the bioavailability by a ton, for me at least. First time I did it, it shocked me how much stronger it made it. So I diluted it and kept it in the fridge, instead of using more alcohol to keep it free of germs. There are some reasearch articles out there that mention how much it increases the bioavailability by, but it seems that people can have really different metabolisms of bupe anyway, so you just gotta go with how you feel. I ended up using a 1:7 ratio of alcohol (Svedka Vodka) to distilled water. I was also using old 2mg subutex pills.

For oral syringes, I got them on amazon. I used the 1ml/cc variety and I bought a lot so I could toss them freqeuently. For water tight bottes, I bought those on amazon too. If you know anybody that vapes, ask them if they have any 15ml glass bottles. They are a little big, but that is what I used and they worked. They are also cheap...some people list them on amazon as essential oil bottles.

Once I found my way by experimenting, I settled on grinding up a 2mg pill and mixing it with 1ml of Vodka and 7ml of H2O, so it was a ratio of 1mg bupe to 4ml liquid, which made super small amounts of bupe possible when I needed them. I did have residue in my bottle (little bits of white on the edges), but I believe it was mostly pill buffer. I obsessed over it sometimes, and in my taper thread I probably freaked out over the liquid taper logistics at times, but honestly if I had been on strips I would have beleived that the bupe wasn't evenly distributed on them, so it wouldn't have made much difference.

When you get to the liquid taper point, assuming you decide to go that route, don't be freaked out. I am super sensitive to drug dose changes, and it went well. It feels weird as hell at first if you are used to having a pill under your tongue, but easy to get used to.
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Don't you ever tame your demons
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:49 pm

Sweet.. Thanks cheez (is there a shorthand for ur handle... And Ty for the detailed liquid taper post)..def gonna go that route when I (hopefully) get down lower.
And Cheeps idk if I'm reading ur posts and contracting/manifesting the symptoms ur writing about or u just really know ur shit cause u just called it; I've been really emotional last few days.. Up and down.. Anxiety to sadness, I busted up some malfunctioning equipment at work today so I guess some brief rage also:). I've also felt happy, hopeful and contented so it's not all bad. I remember feeling like this during the first few months of my first sobriety.

Consciousness is a motherfucker.. But fuck it. I was gonna die of boredom on sub.

So I've been doing single dosing for like forever (except for my initial/failed attempt at a taper when I did am/pm splits and ended up increasing my dosage by 50% within a few weeks
what do u think about splitting and doing am/pm. Hoping it'll help keep me going past 7pm and mayb sleep past 3am..

Anywho, I cut up the pieces today for my next drop on Thursday... So there's that.
Ramble out
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:54 am

Ehhh shit....lost a post....where'd that fucker go? Must have been on my phone....crap.

Basically it said split dosing twice a day especially with liquid is ok. Didn't used to think that but dotz as well as others have done it. I think as long as you keep it to twice a day...you'll be fine. Any more than that might lead back to spiking.

Mojo...I have the Subsux crystal ball....(and a drone or two). :twisted: It tells me what you've feeling and sees all. (What it misses, the drones find.) :cheers: it's kinda like one of those things that talk back to you when you ask it questions. I guess we should name it! Suggestions? :blowme: Sauron perhaps? :mrgreen:

While everyone that has come here to detox uses differing options and has different opinions, a few things seem to be universal.

1. Getting your emotions back once you get below 2-3mgs.
2. Realizing that less is more when you get below one mg.

Also....If you haven't already, be prepared to find something to hump :mrgreen: warn any women in your life that Rumplestielskin has woken up and is ready for action. :P
10 yrs on methadone
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Subblind » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:31 am

"Find something to hump..." I couldn't have put it more gently than that.i believe Queen has a song that has those words in it..."can anybody find me....somebody tooooooo HUUUMMMP" :lol: : :wave:
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:30 am

Ya, my wife has commented that she finds me much more attractive with the touch of personality that's coming out now that I'm not in as much of a fog..
Not much to report, dropped to 1.5 on Thursday. Been exhausted by 730-8 pm and sleep soundly til 3am n then taking my dose at 7am.. Rinse and repeat. No symptoms besides not much appetite and the pot helps well enough so that I'm getting 3 meals a day.
I've been having weird cravings to take a couple of the benzos I have stashed for rough times during the taper... It's not that I've been feeling that rough, just weirdly craving a buzz . Which is strange cause I'm not really into benzo buzz...
Ramble out.
Hope all is well as can be for all those out in subsux land:)
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CheeZeeAnnDee » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:13 pm

Hey mojo, glad you are doing well. I am also one of those who doesn't enjoy benzos. I have been prescribed them since I was 15 and don't think I have ever finished a bottle of em. They just make me tired and then I get rebound anxiety a day or three later. :shrug: Although, I like to take them before airplane rides sometimes, because I can get a little bit 'oh shit, :wired: we'z all gonna die!' on plane rides. A k-pin and a beer, and that becomes, 'lol, :P guess we're all gonna die!' I don't know why I feel different on them when on a plane... maybe the pressure changes help.

I tried clonodine and beta blockers once I started getting below 1 mg, but they made me feel worse and it seemed like I would always get this weird lump on my eyelid after taking them...those were dark days for me, now that I think back. I think I should re-read some of my journal because I feel like I am already forgetting how bad some parts of the wd really felt like.

Glad your wife is groovin on the new you!
All you have is your fire
And the place you need to reach
Don't you ever tame your demons
But always keep them on a leash

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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:41 pm

Cravings happen on and off, how you deal with them now has a lot to do with how you'll handle them later. It takes commitment to taper and jump but it takes steel to stay away from the bad dope. So later on down the pike, when you're sure you can handle a buzz, you have to pick the right one. and the time and place to do it.

In the mean time....practice on your resolve... :D
10 yrs on methadone
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:22 am

So I've been down at 1.5mg for a week... feeling pretty stable. This last drop didn't seem like much. I was a little more tired in the evening for a few days.. pupils are big.. but I've been sleeping like a champ the last few nights (8hrs straight thru).. I've been working hard so i think that tires me out pretty well.

Cheeps, when do u think I should drop next? And to what dose? I was thinking mayb on Sunday going down to 1.25mg..
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:22 pm

Mojo....that sounds good to me! Stay patient and count the little good things! I think you are doing great!

I'm doing taxes and lots of paperwork....if ever you need me and I don't post in your thread...hit me up with a PM....ok?

Kick some ass!!
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:12 am

So, I'm still at 1.5... I never went down on Sunday like I had planned. I've been working a lot and I've been feeling super weak/tired in the evenings, so that my reason for wussing out. I slept tonight from 8pm to 2am... been watching tv since 2..
I gotta get back on my taper.. just feeling down about it tonight.. feel like I'm not really stable yet but idk that I'm gonna get any more stable than Where I'm at now...
anyway, just thought I'd check in. Wish I was more optimistic tonight but just feeling the reality of my (our) situation.. but I suppose if all of the vets here have done it then it stands to reason that I could also.
Hope y'all have a good day
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:29 am

Is it possible that the bupe isn't always equally distributed within a sub strip? I'm trying to understand why I felt better the first 8 or so days after my last drop and the last few days I've been feeling constantly sick (while still at the same dosage (1.5)) .. even in the hours just after my daily dose.. also went from sleeping 7hrs straight thru to 3 hours tops..
It doesn't make much sense to me but mayb it takes longer for a drop in dosage to catch up to u than at other times.. or mayb the lower u go the longer it takes to stabilize..
idk if any of this makes sense or if any subsux vets have any thoughts on this I'd love to here...
My brain is exhausting me with doomsday bullshit and feeling physically drained... I've got 2-3 more weeks where I'll b really busy with work and then I'll be able to chill a little more... so just trying to tough it out.
I'm just hating how useless and easily overwhelmed I've been lately.. I'm just going to have to get used to these feelings tho cause I have a long way to go before I'm ready to jump..

thankfully, I haven't had any impulse to raise my dosage at all.. just bumming I have to work so much these next few weeks... it makes tapering a lot more difficult when I have to manage employees and clients and jobs (and fuckin auditors) and climb on ladders and do physical labor..
Ramble over. Hope y'all have a great day. Thanks for letting me vent my random complaints,
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Eyedotz » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:22 am

Hey Mojo. I personally did a sub taper with 2mg strips all the way to the end. I had no issue what-so-ever with even distribution in the strips. I was able to cut those suckers down to .03mg so if there were distribution issues, I probably would've noticed. I think what you're going through is based on sub unwinding from your system. That shit holds on for a long time and slowly releases.

Please don't expect yourself to feel 'normal' for a long time. You will ALWAYS be tired and worn out during your taper. Some days are just better than others. Tapering will be the hardest and the most gratifying things you may ever do. The first couple months of a dedicated taper are hard. There are so many new symptoms and stress that accompany the acclimation to lowering your sub doses. It sounds strange to say it, but you WILL get used to it. You will get used of the exhaustion...you will get used to self-diagnosing symptoms... and over time will just stop worrying about it. It will just be what it is. I know my pal CheeZ can attest to this as well. My tapering motto is: Embrace the shitty. It will not last forever and it is necessary to slowly adjust your body and mind to everything.

If I may suggest a couple tips...Keep caffeine intake low (really makes you feel worse)... Buy some 5 hour energy's to get through the work day (these were a life saver for me)...take naps whenever you can...If you can't sleep well, don't force it. Close your eyes and listen to sleep music or rain sounds with headphones...it really calms the anxiety levels at night. Don't use comfort meds for symptoms you 'perceive' as symptoms...most likely your body is regulating and it is most beneficial to let it ride out. I didn't use any comfort meds my entire taper (except motrin) and worked everyday at a very busy job. If I could do it, you sure can my friend! Good job so far! This forum is a great place to vent!
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:02 am

Mojo....dotz is right on.....

Feeling uncomfortable is the new reality for a while. But no matter how you feel.....don't spike. Homeostasis is hard to reach during a taper...it is far better to plateau for a few weeks than spike because you think and Freddy tells you, take more...you deserve to feel better. Don't give in to feeling better....it doesn't work. Getting into the small numbers is something to be proud of....every day under 2mgs is a day towards getting clean.

Having to work and having stressful days is what's normal...and that sucks. Having to learn to deal with life without our crutches sucks! I'm going thru some of the same shit.

When you make the next cut....go to 1.25. Go slower but go....cut those things up ahead of time so you aren't tired and say, "fuck it". Preparing meds for taper is aggravating so do it when you aren't tired. Get a meds box and have .5, .25, .75 and 1mg pieces ready. It could be that split dosing will help. A placebo effect anyways. You could take 1mg in the am and .25 12 hours later. Others have done this with success but you cannot spike just because. Progress can be slow....just don't stop and say "fuck it".

At work....try to delegate tasks you don't need to do....get a routine with the employees set up. Later when you feel crappy, you'll be glad you did. You can't expect to do the exact same things so get set up now. Even little changes will help.

Don't get down on yourself, stay steady and above all be proud of yourself for getting this far. Don't listen to Freddy the fucker unless you want a real guilt trip to go along with the normal fatigue!

Stay committed and be proactive about dividing yer dope. Remember it is dope. Learning patience now is part of the process.
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby DietDoc » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:04 am

You’re doing a great job Mr. Mojo Rising. I just read this entire thread and I am sure you are going to get this done. There are some very educated, experienced and above all, empathetic and supportive people on this website. They have also helped me tremendously, both by responding to me directly and indirectly by reading old posts. This site is a source of inspiration, information and motivation.

You and I have a similar situation; I have a 10-year history of sub use as well. I recently tapered over many months from a high of 16 mg/day (pun intended) down to 0.73 mg/day…and then screwed it up yet again. I went up a little for a day…then up a little more for a couple of days…then up a little more for a few days…and then I woke up back on 4 mg/day…for a month! I deeply regret it. But I am human and I did what I did. Don’t do this. It sucks. It’s a time suck.

I have abstained from posting anything on this site, feeling like I had to redeem myself before I was entitled to post again. I am sure everyone here would disagree; in fact, backsliding was probably the most important time I should have reached out. You will find, as I am sure you have already, there is no judgment here, only warmth and kindness. The benevolence these people offer is born out of a lot of pain.

I have fought my way back, something you will not have to do. I am now stable on 0.6/day. I lost almost 3 months. I have done this several times now. Do all you can not to be me.

I read that the pros recommend pre-cutting dosages and I find this excellent advice. The less access I have the better. If I cut at the time I need the next dosage I start sub grazing and that’s how it starts, at least for me. But stress and discomfort are also ‘triggers’ to take that extra piece…or two…or three. I have precut, vacuumed sealed bags with each dose for 10 days locked in a safe. I do not have the combination. I am given one dose per day and cannot access anymore. May sound like over-kill but I can not be trusted, yet.

Based on what you wrote you are going pretty fast. If you want to get off of 1.5 mg/day in 2 months, if I understood that correctly, you’ll have some pretty big drops. The one thing that is repeated over and over here is that everyone is different so you may be totally fine. Some people report stopping at .25 mg/day and having no symptoms at all while other state that they needed to stay on 0.06 mg/day. I am just wondering if you are able to be flexible with your time line goal?

You have made it very far. You may be in the tunnel but the light is starting to shine on you. Keep going. You will slay this dragon before the next season of Game of Thrones airs. Rock on.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering over past 8 months to under 1 mg/d and counting
Alprazolam: 4+ years @ 3 mg/d ave. - Tapered to freedom May 2016
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CheeZeeAnnDee » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Looks like everyone already chimed in with the idea of putting your doses for the week together beforehand. I love how DietDoc called it sub grazing, because that is a perfect term for it. Setting up my doses beforehand really helped me at the beginning of my journey before switching to liquid.

Also, I was always a split doser, until I got into the idea of quitting for good. I used to take it in three doses, until I got down to a certain point. Cutting out my night dose was my first big step toward tapering, I believe. Once I got serious about tapering, I'd take it in the AM and afternoon, and then eventually I decided to stop taking it in the morning too, because I wanted to ease off any neediness for it when going to sleep or waking up. Oddly, it seemed to work. I feel okay in the morning and fall asleep like a champ. I ain't saying I stay asleep, but my eyelids feel like they weigh thirty pounds when my head first hits the pillow. But split dosing is controversial because some people think it is a compulsive behavior suggesting an addictive tendancy to bupe. Gotta do you, though, right? If it works for you and helps you get lower, it makes sense to me

But, like people mentioned above, you gotta start relishing the suffering. Every pain, every ache, every bit of nastiness is a positive sign you are going in the right direction. Sweat that shit out, never, ever go up in dose, and drop down, even if you can only manage a tiny bit, every so often, and you'll be there...because that's the only direction you'll allow yourself to go.
All you have is your fire
And the place you need to reach
Don't you ever tame your demons
But always keep them on a leash

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Telling subs to fuck off since March 20, 2017
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Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:16 am

So I dropped to 1.375mg a few days ago.. Sunday I think. It's only a .125 drop... it hasn't been very noticeable (besides not getting as much of a energy/motivation buzz in the hours after my dose.
Anyway, just thought I'd chime in.
btw fuck sub. Someday I'm gonna feel good again. Someday
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