Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:50 pm

Thanks Dude, I appreciate that. One of the reasons I want to get this behind me is so I can be more functional and offer this kind of information and care. I got hit with a rough night out of nowhere last night. I can only hope like I’ve had in the past that for some reason it’s an isolated one and not night after night. The clock ticks forward and the question is how much are/were these low dose actually doing to keep me feeling OK and stable? Have you seen what a .04mg piece looks like? It’s an eyelash size. I look at it and think if I feel basically no overt withdrawal on this size piece then I must be home free. But then I think of how potent it is and that while 30-50 times it’s morphine equivalent at low doses. So I don’t know what’s going to happen...and fear of the unknown and all...you get it.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:14 am

How many people are prescribed suboxone in the unites states? Worldwide?

1million, 2million?

Anyway, I was just thinking about how busy this site has been lately, and how that trend will continue more and more... as people start to realize there aren’t any offloading stops on the sub train..
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:47 pm

nomojo3479 wrote:How many people are prescribed suboxone in the unites states? Worldwide?

1million, 2million?

Anyway, I was just thinking about how busy this site has been lately, and how that trend will continue more and more... as people start to realize there aren’t any offloading stops on the sub train..



I worry about this all the time. It's a sad state of affairs in the USA we have to rely on anonymous Internet forums for drug information. I look at a few here and there but this one seems to be more centered around sub and detoxing. The others are really big and you have to dig to find specific content. :gaah:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9902
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:36 am

I want to drop to .60 tomo.. I’ve been having some conflict with the wife about me being sick from my taper... she isn’t really supportive of my tapering down.. (I mean she is in theory, but me being grumpy and sick really bugs her apparently.).
The funny part is I put an addition on my house this summer all so I could have my own bedroom to be a tapering dopesick fool in this winter.. which I have done.
I guess it just sucks, nobody gives a fuck about a taper.. people just have no idea.. like most things I think people see it as black and white and it’s more grey... I want to tell my friends (the few I have) that I’m trying on getting healthy but first I have to be mildly sick for another few months.. nobody will get that. Nobody (irl) seems to get why I don’t want to be social atm..
ok whiny rant over.. things r going well I think.. fully adjusted to liquid taper now.. seems like the dosing is going to be much easier from here on out... cutting those 8mg strips with accuracy was getting tough below 1mg.. I cant recommend the liquid taper style that annalo is doing (with listerine mouthwash) enough.. it’s easy, and I don’t think there is any noticeable difference in how much buprenorphine/naloxone Im absorbing sublingually doing liquid vs strips..
the difference in sub absorption was my main reason for not wanting to switch over to liquid taper but for me the switch has been pretty seamless... no spike or drop in actual dose absorbed (that I could tell)
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:14 am

Great news Mojo! Being stable enough to drop to .6 is great! How impressive that you built yourself a room to have to yourself for this low & slow taper. I'm sorry your wife/friends don't understand. I just hope she'll continue to support you. You deserve it. This drug is impossible to understand. Even for those of us on it & tapering.

I'm thrilled to hear that your switch to the liquid taper was a smooth one. Of course we're all concerned about absorption. I know I am. But not so much anymore because you did it and it went just peachy. Good information!

Good luck with your next drop. I hope you'll feel okay. Remember what DietDoc said that it's one more step to victory!
Pills August 2009 to 4/14/2017
Sub Tapering From 16 mg Since 5/6/2017
User avatar
CatsMeow
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:01 pm

Mojo....doing this is akin to having a cancer cut out....but it comes back and you go thru several months of treatment. Finally it's gone but one always worries if it's going to return. You can tell your friends that is what it's like to get off this damn drug.

It's time for you to just keep going....sitting still isnt going to be any better.....you gotta keep going. She's sick of the whole thing so it doesn't matter. Would it help if I emailed her?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9902
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:43 pm

Wow, great analogy cheeps. It somehow makes this whole taper thing better mentally. I hope my hubs continues to be so supportive. If not, I'll tell him this.
Pills August 2009 to 4/14/2017
Sub Tapering From 16 mg Since 5/6/2017
User avatar
CatsMeow
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:07 am

Dang, just found out a good friend of mine has relapsed on heroin after 5+ years clean.
in detox he was started back on sub.... he told me he wants to quit sub asap.. he said he tried tapering off( 12mgs a day for 30days) but did it too quickly (like a week) and on the 7th day he had acute sub withdrawals and went back to heroin.. so what do you think is a good taper plan for a person who has been on long term sub before but has only roughly 1 month of heroin and 1month of sub use built up in his system.. before that 5 years clean.. he is on 12mgs a day of sub currently. I told him he could probably taper very aggressively to 2mg and from there he may need to take his time but idk... he has been back on such a short time.. what say y’all?
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CatsMeow » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:31 am

Oh no Mojo, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. Unfortunately relapse may be ever present after getting clean. Too bad he had to go back on such a high level of sub.

I hope someone can come along with good information and a taper plan for your buddy to get off this shit ASAP. Easier said than done for sure. I agree that he could probably get down to 2 mg rather quickly. I hope so anyway.

This is a horrible situation for your friend, but I hope you continue to do well at .6.
Pills August 2009 to 4/14/2017
Sub Tapering From 16 mg Since 5/6/2017
User avatar
CatsMeow
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:35 am

He needs to go like this


6mgs for four days
4mgs for ten days
2mgs until he's stable.....
Then he needs to slow down.


Would he come here?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9902
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:02 am

Cheeps, I hope he does... I gave him the site info and told him what handle I use along with a boatload (prob too much) info about sub....so I hope he does.. I think he is pretty active in aa or Na mayb so idk how receptive he is to other options
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:41 pm

nomojo3479 wrote:Cheeps, I hope he does... I gave him the site info and told him what handle I use along with a boatload (prob too much) info about sub....so I hope he does.. I think he is pretty active in aa or Na mayb so idk how receptive he is to other options



This place is either a haven for those who go to meetings and have doubts there....or its hell for them because we aren't steppers.

You did what you could :thumbup: ...now give him space and see what happens. :shrug:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9902
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:30 pm

Mojo...I posted my last long post in my thread, mostly about your question about symptoms. It got bad man...but it didn’t last long. Such a surreal experience actually.

I know sometime soon you’ll be posting about your jump. Zero doubt. Just keep following your heart and guts dude...they got you this far in life and they won’t fail you now.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:15 am

Do u think if I cut my arms off the restless arms syndrome would go away? Man that’d b nice. Almost worth it
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:35 am

nomojo3479 wrote:Do u think if I cut my arms off the restless arms syndrome would go away? Man that’d b nice. Almost worth it


:lolno: :shock: Good one Mojo. Me thinks you're going to need those arms once this is all behind you. But it is a thought. :idea:
Pills August 2009 to 4/14/2017
Sub Tapering From 16 mg Since 5/6/2017
User avatar
CatsMeow
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:33 pm

Everyone is going to experience RLS to some point. One thing SVDD didn't do was use much in the way of comfort meds. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: For that, even though he suffered, he's to be applauded. :clap: :clap: :clap: when the time comes for you guys, you get to decide what you want to address RLS with....nothing or a little something.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9902
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby CatsMeow » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:03 pm

There's no doubt in my mind that I will use Gabapentin. I already have 2 full RX's for it due to my nerve damage from surgeries. I've read many posts saying that it helps. I think I'll also have Requip in my arsenal for RLS.

I have a Word file that's about 4 pages long now listing the different comfort meds after jumping. I've assembled it as I've read here, along with side effects, pros & cons, or just any information that seemed important. So I won't take these meds blindly. (I will never do that again for the rest of my life) :nono:
Pills August 2009 to 4/14/2017
Sub Tapering From 16 mg Since 5/6/2017
User avatar
CatsMeow
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:01 am

I wish I wasn’t so skeptical of my ability to quit opiates.. I just read that old thread by Alicekay and she just jumped from a really high dose and did it with a bottle of sub sitting on her dresser n in a month she was starting to feel better.
That is hero shit
That ain’t me....
ratch was saying in that thread that he didn’t know if tapering really made much of a difference on acute withdrawals... sdd kinda said the same.. thinkin I should probably jump but I won’t yet.. not willful or willing enough yet.. soon I hope
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby nomojo3479 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:27 am

“All grown ups are pirates; we kill pirates.
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: Intro and taper (10 year sub user)

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:07 am

Firstly...you gotta follow your heart or your gut or your instincts or whatever the fuck you want to call it. It's all about what's right for you. I took less than 6 months to go from 16mg to 1mg and can't recall feeling anything bad or uncomfortable...but then I took 15 months to get off of the last 1mg! In a way, this was just right for me.

I want to clarify a couple of things having lived through it to this point that I am sure of: the most important thing is my taper, as crazy as it was and despite all the repeated back-sliding, dose bumping and general excuse making bullshit to take more sub 'to function', it absolutely AND definitely made a HUGE difference when I jumped. There is no way I would be on sub-free day #16 if I had not tapered, none. It made all the difference in the world. 6 shitty nights with intermittent sleep (actually got more after jumping than when I was tapering) and then basically symptom free; verses a high-jump dose or no or little tapering leading to 28+ days of literally zero sleep and 24 hour a day suffering 10X worse than the worst day I had. I think it was day 10 after jumping I destroyed 120 unopened strips of sub. I am a weak little bitch and if my jump was that uncomfortable I would have ripped' and stripped' that shit in a heart beat until my teeth were orange. But it was just sitting in the medicine cabinet, out in the open, free for the taking, never even thought about it once, and that's me talking. If you had gone through what I went through when I jumped you'd be pissed you waited so long or took so long to jump because it was basically child's play. Remember I am 20 years older than you Dude...I'm a few car payments away from 58! When you get older you tolerate somethings better than when you're younger but I assure you withdrawal is not one of those things. The ONLY reason I stayed on Suboxone so long was fear, plain and simple. And my fear was of only one thing: WD. Not to ruminate, but if you had experienced my exact jump symptoms you wouldn't have missed a day of work, you'd be saying "this is it, this is all it is, this ain't shit". I am melodramatic, I write a lot more than most people and I am sure I made it sound much worse than it was. To be fair, I can not stand that feeling of having to move constantly...for me this feeling defines withdrawal...and I had maybe 10-20% of what a high dose jump would have been for 5% of the time. I'd describe myself using the "P" word but out of respect for the ladies and all the pan-polies out there I won't...but you get it. If I can handle it, for you it would be something like this: let's take the kids bowling tonight...and that's on your worst day.

I can not speak to your concern about once you're free to feel opiate agonists again that it won't lead you to 'relapse' (fucking dumbest word in the world...I mean: allow you to make poor and unhealthy choices again...all drug use is choice, period. We all have the same brains and biological drives and only a very small portion of those exposed to opiates become addicts, even those that were once medically dependent, so the 'fight your own biology drive' argument doesn't hold up, nor does the 'my brain is different than your brain'...but I digress). What I'm saying is this is an area you have to make arraignments for. One on one counciling with a good therapist, for example. Do what you gotta do.

I think we're a lot a like, fear both motivates and paralyzes us. I've been reading your thoughts and feelings for like a year, that's a lot. So, I will take a chance and proffer some advice. I truly believe that the longer you are one a lower dose the more healing takes place during that time, even thought you're still taking some. I also think this only applies to those that have been on very high doses for more than a year, like anything north of 8 mg. You've been hovering around .5mg for many months, this puts you at exactly the same place I was. Stuck, but at a relatively low dose. This is a very good thing. So, the advice (and I have not given much advice, support yes, but actual 'do this' type advice almost never) is to expedite your taper. Just go down 15% every 7 days and deal with whatever comes. I did the math and it's 8 weeks. The Suboxone taper chart on the GetMeOffDrugs website says it should take you 9 days to taper off of .6mg....9 days....I'm saying take 56 days...but just do it. By May 1st you'll be sub free/opiate free and changing your screen name to GotMyMojoBack.

.51
.43
.36
.31
.25
.21
.17
.14
JUMP

Pre-make 7 of each dose and just do it. You'll be amazed how actually easy it is. But if you don't push yourself, just like in the gym, you'll never get the result you want. 56 days to get off of 1/2 a milligram, cake.

There's a few people on this site that have been around for my journey and you're one of them so I feel a strong connection to your success. You're in the home stretch dude and have done a ton of healing already. A few crappy days here and there for a short time for a guy like you is a joke. You'll crush it, but you gotta push through. It got so bad for me that I left days untouched and moved to the next dose early because I just couldn't take it anymore. And I'm a 57 year old "P". Just put this stupid shit behind you man, you are 1000 times stronger than it is.


'Danny, do you take drugs'?
'Everyday Sir.'
'Good boy Danny".

Caddyshack...It's still funny to me what can I say.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

PreviousNext

Return to Sub Sux

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests