My Taper Journal

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:36 am

Anna.... :twisted: you truly belong here :lol:


Doc....NYC.....it's one of the first stop on your world tour. :cheers: :blowme:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:41 am

10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:02 pm

19.

Thanks for the support, kind words of encouragement and inspirational classic rock. Also, ‘squirt and go’ was my last girlfriend’s nickname.


So I wasn’t going to post this because I don’t want to be a bummer. But honest discussion is the best way to give and be part of a group.

Last night was only 24 hours into my new drop dose of .18mg (.09mg 2 x day). I had a really bad night. First one in a while, at least weeks or more. Not just scorched earth type insomnia but RLS from hell. I’ve basically been in a comfort zone for a while. There’s a chance it’s coincidence. I’ve had really restless nights with those symptoms at higher doses and no recent drop for no apparent reason. The other thing that sucks is daily migraine for about 5 days now.

I was having trouble handing it and took my second dose at 8 hours not 12. I felt badly about that, like I broke my own rules but in the big picture I guess it doesn’t matter that much. I did my third dose at this dosage at 10 hours and hopefully I’ll settle into 12/12 again. At .11mg 2 x day I had the chronic low energy and leg soreness that has followed me through many dose drops but no acute symptoms like RLS for a while and my insomnia even improved.

I guess in a couple of nights I’ll know if it’s increased withdrawal or just some bad ju ju, or at least a transient dose adjustment reaction.

People that have jumped aren’t nearly as active as we whom still taper...with that said do you guys know how small a .09 mg piece is? My final dose is 50% of that. I’m using 2mg film and the pieces have become so small I have to use high quality tweezers to pick it up and place it sublingually.

Anyway...day two ends at this dose hopefully better than day one.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:19 am

18


I wanted the add a quick update to my previous post regarding the terrible exacerbation of symptoms I felt just after my most recent drop.

I am quite happy today becasue last night I didn’t have any of the same symptoms. I suppose I am what is referred to as cautiously optimistic.

If I was going to any major issues, such as having to deal with those symptoms for several to many days I’d would have had some sign of it by now...I think!

For me the win isn’t just finally getting off suboxone, it’s getting rid of this lethargic feeling and especially the pain and discomfort of led legs. Will this improve once I stop taking sub? Damm I hope so.

I think I’m the engine for once and not the caboose. I think I can, I think I can...
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby SubJumpa » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:49 am

I think you can too!! In fact I'd bet da farm on it!! Can only speak to my experience but I struggled a lot with aching legs towards the end of my taper and since I jumped they have felt 100% better..The lethargy is a struggle at times but seeing some improvement in spurts as of late.. Hang in there doc, glad your feeling well today!!

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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:02 pm

Here's a random guess about any RLS or wds feelings. Normally they don't show up until a few days after you drop. But I think when you get under a certain dose....say, .5 and when you stress yourself doing any activity, the randomness just happens.

One mu said to the other, "here....you take this for awhile" or "let's play dodge ball with this tiny bit of dope....gotcha!" Or..."why did the dope cross the road? Because the receptor on the other side looked mu better."

Or because of anticipation? Our little noggins have infinite thoughts....one thought said to the other, "I'm bored, let's go find a kappa receptors to play with." :shrug:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Great news Doc! You're in control here. Thrilled to hear the symptoms didn't persist as expected. Take all the good you can get & run with it. I love your engine/caboose analogy. So positive! I see you're counting down your days. You're so close & I hope that your lead legs go away after jump as they did for Tim.

I also want to thank Tim for staying with us after his jump. Your insight is invaluable to us. You're a very good man Tim!

Go Doc!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:25 pm

You guys have no idea how much I appreciate all your thoughts, encouragement and kindness. You all are in my heart. My taper is your taper and your taper is my taper. This site means as much, and is as important as, any physical support group can be. The information, the empathy, the support means everything. And WHEN I make it to sub zero I want to stick around too. Cheeps cracks me up. I have to squirt and go now (for those of you that read Anna’s post).
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 pm

:kiss:

Doc, thank you for the commitment to stick around after you're free of this soul sucking drug. It will sure mean a lot to me & to many others too.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Annalo57 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:20 pm

Doc, where you go, i will follow. I'm so looking forward to my last "squirt". And you, to your last "eyelash".

SubSux lingo.... Have we created a new dialect???

I'm very focused on you right now. Because i know you;re going to jump soon. I hope you know it too. It is just one of those things that is going to be, no matter how much resistance the universe throws at you. I can hear it in every post you type, you're done with the drama. Day by day to the last day. Its that simple. And to hear you make a commitment to be here after your jump, to keep supporting the rest of us....Well thats everything.

XOXO
Anna :banana:
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:50 pm

cheeps wrote:Here's a random guess about any RLS or wds feelings. Normally they don't show up until a few days after you drop. But I think when you get under a certain dose....say, .5 and when you stress yourself doing any activity, the randomness just happens.



I meant to write about how insightful this is. It’s theoretical but you’ve seen and experienced more than anyone else here and I trust your instincts. What’s interesting is what you wrote is true. So much so I said it before you wrote it!

The day I dropped I forced myself to do more than I have done in a long while, the whole push myself thing. And I was thinking that if I had listened to my body and taken it a bit easier when I felt really run down earlier that day and not forced myself to keep moving I wouldn’t have had that terrible RLS riddled night.


Great minds think alike and all...

And thanks for all the support everyone.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:24 am

It's asscrack of dawn on Sunday AM. Work all day today but wanted to say.... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: k and push gently. :nono: :lol: :pash:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:04 am

17...

Another bad night. It’s totally withdrawal’s last gasp. I had the feeling again of ‘total body RLS’ where you can’t be still and have to move every few seconds. The few times I did fall asleep I had Mare-mares all night...terrible crazy ass nightmares that make what ever sleep you do manage to get really uncomfortable.

This sucks but I can handle it. I didn’t even hit the Xanax. Xanax and benzos help with anxiety but it will not shut down the restless body syndrome and that’s my issue, not anxiety. The thing that sucks is that tiny little piece I took at 8:00 AM is the only variable that preceded the symptoms going away. I was hoping I was past that. However, yesterday and last night was day 3 on this dose so maybe it that ‘one bad night’ after a drop that I’ve had many times. Day by day.

One last thing...I have decided I am not going to put any onther expectations on myself until this is done. I don’t care if I live like a hermit or watch the 24 hours porn channel and play whack-a-mole with my junk all day. Other than sticking to a plant based diet, no caffeine or other drugs, I can be a ‘do nothing beach bum’ if I want until I’m on the other side. I will say if I watch one more documentary I’m gonna scream. I have the entire season 2 of This Is Us I can watch, only problem with that is it’s a cry fest in my current state.

Anyway...last night sucked...but it was more annoying than it was horrible. It’s like withdrawal lite. It’s withdrawal but only 1/2 the calories.

Fucking Suboxone, am I right? Soon, 1 in 3 people will be on buprenorphine.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Martin » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:55 am

Hey Doc
I just stumbled into town this morning.
Slightly hungover and pissed off.
Anyhow, when I was having problems
with RLS while withdrawaling from sub,
I used a dopamine agonist and coincidentally
it went away 2 nights later.

Burrough's claimed a certain dopamine agonist
was the "cure" for opiate withdrawals which
was why I asked for it (you know, Old Bull Lee
retired in the town I grew up in, I met
him several times, and Ginsberg once too! If
you all haven't read "Junky" Go! Do it Now!)

Again, this was something I took while
completely off sub, so it might not
jive while you are still tapering.
You are a doctor, so I imagine it's been
on your radar.

Get some rest my friend. I gotta run my
weekly 5k and approve some flooring for the wife
at Home Depot. No rest for me.
Benzo Free June 2015
Sub Free Dec 2015 For about a year
Back on Sub June 2017, 8mg a day
Tapering @ 3mg a day
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:12 am

Yes, Doc, you are absolutely positively RIGHT. Sub sux. This is the worst experience of my life. Worse than my botched hysterectomy, worse than having needles inserted into my breast with no pain killers to finally diagnose benign micro-calcifications. I could go on...

I'm just glad that you can just focus on tapering & jumping. That's a positive at this point. Have you tried Requip for the RLS? Maybe it will help. There's no pill for nightmares. You're going to make it and put this behind you once & for all. Do this only once & never look back.

Thanks for posting the truth. 1 in 3? That's just depressing.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:09 pm

Thanks guys. If it persists, which I don’t expect, I’ll think about short term meds.

Martin...are you taking about the Beat Generation guys? Kerouac, Ginsburg, Bourroughs, et al? Naked Lunch, Howl, On The Road, etc? If so, you are the coolest MF I’ve met in a long time. You can connect those guys to The Merry Pranksters, to Leary and eventuality to the Greatful Dead. I know all their work, their lives, their histories, and especially DRUGS! You’re younger than me and they preceded my life. You be an educated boy for sure. Very cool. Of course I could be wrong about what you meant but I nailed the guitar thing so I’m thinking you know these guys. Yes? Jack Kerouac rules!
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Martin » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:40 pm

Yeah Doc
Those are the guys!
I'm talking about Williams S. Burroughs, also known as
Old Bull Lee in Kerouac's "On the Road".
He lived Lawrence, Kansas my home town
the last couple decades of his life.
So I had run into him several times. He was friends
with a buddy's uncle who had a farm where
we used to fish. One time they were out
there plinking while me and Mark were
fishing and I did actually get introduced
to him and shook his hand. I like to think it
was the same gun he was holding, that he
accidently shot his wife with, but
it probably wasn't since that happenned in
Mexico, I think. I later studied English at KU, so
I attended every guest lecture he spoke
at. Ginsberg came to town when Burroughs won
some award, and did a small poetry reading
at the Free State Brewery and everyone got to meet
Allen at the end.

Sadly, when Burrough's died - his house was raided for souvenirs,
and people were selling empty prescription bottles
on Ebay with his name on it because he was the
world's most famous addict. They were going
to name a creek after him, but there was some
controversy about it because of his drug use, so
I don't know if they ever did.

But, I know what you are talking about! Those
books are like the bible to me. All my life,
I have been trying to live up to those works,
trying to be that cool! The drug use
was just kind of a by-product of that lifestyle.
They are the reason I went to college and studied English -
I wanted to be JACK KEROUAC! I still do!
Benzo Free June 2015
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:35 pm

So weird and cool. Obviously I was a pre-med in college so you’re command of literature goes much deeper than mine. But I devoured the beat culture and the guys that defined it. Plus, for me, my connection is the east coast...1960s Greenwich Village. A bit more Lenny Bruce but still in that universe. Ginsburg read Howl for the first time in the Village, on a stage I would play guitar on 25 years later.

And what about Cassidy and Kesey? Too cool.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.”

“My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them.”

“If moderation is a fault, then indifference is a crime.”

“As I grew older I became a drunk. Why? Because I like ecstasy of the mind. I'm a wretch. But I love, love.”



I also went though a serious Hemmingway phase too. Read every book he wrote and all the short stories.

“My legs hurt like a motherfucker, but that’s cost to cross back over the bridge.” I wrote that one hahaha.


PS: I had to look up ‘Plinking’! I assume you mean the shooting guns entomology not the musical one?

PSS: Hunter S. Fucking Thompson!
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Martin » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:25 pm

Ha ha - Plinking = shooting beer cans.

You live in the Village? Cool! I wanted to move
there when I was a young hipster. I never made
it out East though.
Benzo Free June 2015
Sub Free Dec 2015 For about a year
Back on Sub June 2017, 8mg a day
Tapering @ 3mg a day
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:27 am

I didn’t live in the Village. I’m what you call a bridge and tunnel rat. That’s someone who lives minutes away from the city but on the other side of the Hudson River. We would cut school and hang out in the city. The greatest thing is playing guitar in Washington Square Park...it’s a never ending jam. I still go and play there. Good times.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

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