My Taper Journal

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Annalo57 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:39 pm

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard that :crazy:
Last edited by Annalo57 on Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Annalo57
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:46 am

SVDD....down to .1 twice a day.....that's a decent drop and definitely a step in the right direction. You are fighting fighting fighting!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

I want to say, I can't wait until this SHIT is over.....but I must have patience too. :banghead: :kiss:


You are killing it! :punchballs: :blowme:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9882
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:39 am

Hey sdd.. how long has belbuca been on the market? I’m also pretty pissed no one mentioned anything about this to me..
my sub dr told me that 2mg of sub was a very very low dose of sub and that at that dosage it wasn’t even acting on the receptors in my brain, that at 2mg it’s basically placebo.
Well if I could go back to 2005 Id clue that doctor in on the reality of the situation.
I guess I’m just not sure if my doctor was just making up bullshit, repeating lies he heard from drug reps, or?? Idk what other explanation there is...
someday history will look back on the medical proffesion-(1990-2020) with a lot of negative judgment... oxy contin is non addictive really? Buprenorphine is non addictive ??
And the worst part is once your addicted the only treatment they offer is to go pray away your addiction in aa or na...

How much different is that treatment than gay conversion therapy where you try to pray away the gay?

I do feel I was abused and brainwashed by the treatment community... that whole industry is a straight fraud.
Seriously how the fuck is prayer the prescribed treatment (dumbing down 12step programs slightly).
Clean house, help others, trust god and go to a meeting a day
Thanks now give me 20k

Sorry rant out.,
Oh also, I started split dosing, I now have two consecutive nights of 7hours of beautiful restful sleep.. if your tapering and only taking your dose in the am, your just making it harder for yourself. Below 1mg split dosing Imo becomes the way to do it.
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:12 am

Mojo....I'm glad that's working for you....now start whittling. From all accounts you should be good to go.


One of the lessons to be learned from this shitty debacle is to talk to pharmacists over any medications you take. Even if you've been on them a while. They are the ones that know the new stuff or variations of the old. I've seen my Drs practice (6 of them n the same building) notify drug reps as to when they can interrupt the work flow. The reps don't have the fettered access like they used too and I've seen and heard the Drs do a "wham bam, thank you man" on them. So...I believe the Drs know less now and the actual druggists are the ones to talk to.

Always consult the expert. I've been more honest with some of them than with the dr. And it's paid off...."this is what I want to accomplish, tell me about this drug." Many of them are HAPPY to be recognized that way and tell you stuff that's not listed in the paperwork.

And Drs professionally have to respect what they recommend. :nono: 8-) 8-) I've played that card a many a time.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9882
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:01 pm

Mojo...Belbuca has been out for just over a year. What you describe regarding what your ‘sub doctor’ told you is what is taught to get the special DEA certification to prescribe suboxone. But it’s apples and oranges. It is true that below around 6 mg of buprenorphine receptors become less occupied. But an 80mg OxyContin only occupies/activates 5% of receptors...so it’s not equivalent. The problem arises becasue bupe is a partial agonist while all other opiates are full agonists. If you were to take ANY other opiate and occupy to same amount of receptors as 8 mg of bupe it would be a massive, irreversible overdose death. Partial agonists don’t cause the respiratory depression of full agonists so they misinform the provider that 2 mg is barely a clinically significant dose. But they use Morphine as the standard for the action of bupe, apples and oranges.

My doctor told me once I taper to 2 mg there is no need to continue, just stop. But mean while .075 mg is appropriate for moderately severe pain that requires 24 hour medication. How can a sub doctor reconcile these two facts.

I am finally calming down but one thing bothers me. My jump dose will be higher than the lowest dose of Belbuca. It just messes with the psychological part of tapering.

Anyway...you and me man...I think we’re next to take the leap of freedom. I can honestly say I have made my taper 100 times more difficult than it needed it be. So much back sliding. Like I wrote a while back, I realized I’m trying to get off of suboxone while part of me is trying to hold on to it. And then there’s the benzo mistake. I think whatever you can do to make it harder and complicate thing I did. But .1 mg 2 x d is progress even I can’t deny. But it’s still close to a 1/4 mg which seems too high to jump. I’m going for 2-3 more reductions and then jump. I’ll deal with the benzo taper after that. I have tapered off benzos like 12 times and never had a problem once I committed to it.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby nomojo3479 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:56 am

Ur killing it sdd.. super proud of you. This taper thing is a long process, but ur so so close...
Hopefully I’ll be on the jump train sooner than later also.
To be honest I have a hard time imagining life post sub.. but I’ve never been much of a worrier.. more of a I’ll cross that bridge when I get there kind of guy...
anyway,
Congrats..
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Annalo57 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:57 am

Hi Doc. Just a quick hello and letting you know I'm thinking of you. You're down to the nitty gritty now. I have no doubt that you will be out the Sub door very soon. I've had a couple of grimy days, but each challenge is a learning experience and failure is not an option. Right now you are the trailblazer. Blaze away!

Love,
Anna :banana:
Annalo57
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:41 pm

Thanks for the kind support. You all are on cursing speeds, but I wouldn’t insult you by saying you’re on auto pilot becasue it just don’t work that way. People I’ve talked to about this (non-sub users) say, don’t let it affect your life, just live your life totally normally as you would if you weren’t taking any medication and just for get about it. Just take a little less each week and in a few weeks you’ll be off of it. Think if it like blood pressure medication that you no longer need but had to wean off of, you wouldn’t think about that right? My reaction is to tell them how adorable they are.

Strangely, I went from 14 days per dose, to 10 days per dose, to 7 days per dose. All I can say is it’s instinct driven. If I drag this out much further I’m going to go nuts. I have been a bit inconsistent with the benzos but I am getting on a level dose.

Here’s my current score card:

I started split dosing (after over a year of tapering at 1 x day) at the first dose and have stayed at 2 x day:

.32 .16/.16mg
.27 .13/.13mg
.22 .11/.11mg
.18 .09/.09mg (starts this Thursday)
.14 .07/07mg
.09 .04/.04mg

I could taper to .02/.02mg but I’ll probably jump at .09mg. These doses all use geometry so it makes it easier for me to make them. A long, long time ago I made zip lock bags of each of my doses and stopped at .22mg so I have to make the rest. I stopped at .22mg becasue it’s seemed so ridiculously far away. Yet, here I am. I have the dose chart I followed that starts at 32 mg. It’s so crazy to look at how long it is. They should show it to every new patient thinking of going on sub.

“Andy DuFame...crawled through a river of shit to finally come out clean on the other side.”
Last edited by Subverted DietDoc on Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:40 pm

Are you finding any type of stabilization on each dose....OR are you just driven to get done. Once you get to a sort of stable dose, stay there as long as you CAN our it may not make much difference. SUCKS too hear that huh?

I tapered my methadone quickly before I went to detox only too have them tell me the body still had this notion I was up higher. Now I know that NOT what you want too hear but you still have to listen to the body. If you can get some days where you aren't in total lead suit.... that may be some stability. :kiss: :blowme:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9882
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:00 pm

The reason I think I’m OK is becasue I’ve spent almost 6 months below .5mg. Lots of people reduce every 7-10 days when they’re having symptoms. I’m reducing over the next 3 weeks to just get it over with. I really don’t feel much but leg soreness but it hasn’t changed in the past 3 reductions. My gut feeling is I probably won’t feel much of anything over the next 3 weeks. I’m forcing myself to do 3 more drops. I’m on .1mg 2 x day. I bet it could cut it in 1/2 and not notice anything. I used to feel better when I took a dose all the way down to around .35mg but then I stopped feeling anything. That may be becasue I started doing 12 hour split doses but I think it’s also becasue there’s very little sub in my system. I guess we’ll see...

I read a post today, I think it was Mare, she wrote she got off methadone and then went on suboxone...what would be a reason to get off Methadone and then go into suboxone?
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:02 am

Congrats SDD, looks like that split dosing is working wonders. 0.2 per day is primo status. You worked your ass off to get here, be proud of yourself.
Sub4Sevenyrs
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:31 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:34 am

Mare would have to answer that but the wds from methadone are fierce, much worse than sub physically.

As far as my guess as to why...maintenance? Sub is the wonder drug of the early 21st century....haven't you heard? Hahahehe.... :roll: :P :problem: :lolno:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9882
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:10 am

Well it's after midnight so it's now official: the 21 day Suboxone clock has begun to countdown.

If I am able to handle the symptoms that my plan might result in, on February 14th, 2018 I will take the last dose of Suboxone I will ever take in my life.

I sat in my office tonight and spent over 2 hours meticulously chopping up what may hopefully be the last custom doses of Suboxone I will ever make. I was thinking a waste to have to spend my time doing this. Fucking Belbuca.

I didn't get nervous until I made and saw the last dose. I made 3 doses total and the first 2 were clearly smaller but the 3rd one was like an eyelash. It is so small I couldn't breath near them and had to close the vents so the heater wouldn't blow them off my cutting board.

As I look at the reality of these doses I realize it's likely I am going to have another big wave of withdrawal symptoms. I am scared, but I am not afraid. And, at least right now, I am in 'bring it on' mode. I may have a false sense of bravado, but I am going to try. Worst case is that I'll have to add 2 or 3 weeks and some intermediate doses; but I have a plan and we'll see how it blows, I mean goes.

3 dosages .18, .14, .09 mg @ 7 days each. The percentages of reductions are high at 18%, 22%, 36%, but eventually they have to rise, it's math! And I went from same doses for 14 days, to 10 and now to 7. I need to make this happen. I need to get this done. I need this to end.

Overall I feel pretty good and have done what I can to create the best physiological milieu (no caffeine, superhero diet, reduced my Xanax intake by 70%, gonna get more exercise). I have days where I feel fairly well but then out of nowhere, totally unexpectedly, I get lead-legs. Not so much the lead suit but definitely lead-legs and very low energy. Anyway...my gut tells me I'll be OK until week 3...and then I'll be OK anyway.

On a lighter note: I just binged watched The Amazing Mrs. Maisel and it was really great. It had a stage play like feel with a La La Land style at times. Really great cast and engaging characters. 4.5 stars from SDD.

Hang tough everyone...we're all gonna make it.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby SubJumpa » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:17 am

Dude your killing it!! Congrats on .18!! U da man! U will make this happen- patience and persistence.. fuc yea!!! :cheers2: 2 new beginnings!!
SubJumpa
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:46 am

I'm going to send his ass to Europe with TRock....I can see them now standing in the crowd at the beer gardens in Germany, holding a sign up. "We jumped and now we can party!" 8-)
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9882
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:55 am

It’s funny...I have this secret bank account that I put whatever extra funds I come by in. It’s literally called the Europe fund and its propose is to take a trip to Europe when I was free of suboxone and it’s after effects.

I was going to travel around going to Gypsy Jazz jams but I gave up on playing it so I’ll have to find a new hobby to connect to travel.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:57 am

20.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
Subverted DietDoc
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 am

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:01 pm

Subverted DietDoc wrote:20.


Is that what you owe me....or ? :?:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9882
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Annalo57 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:20 pm

NEWS FLASH--------DIETDOC IS KILLING THE SUB TAPER!!!!!!!

I must admit, I envy your precision. I just squirt and go.

LMAO "SQUIRT AND GO" Sometimes I just crack myself up. I should have said that to my last paramour. :boobshake: :boobshake: :boobshake: :boobshake: :boobshake: :boobshake: :boobshake: :boobshake:

On a more serious note, Doc, you are so determined, I don't think you could stop this now if you tried. It starts to be something akin to inertia. The days go by and progress is made, even when we feel it isn't being made. It is. Just think, in a few weeks you will be Sub free. And then some weeks after that I will join you. Could you have imagined this a couple of years ago. I couldn't. I used to sit in my car and cry because I honestly believed I was going to have to stay on Sub for the rest of my life. It just isn't so.

Keep on truckin' my friend. I'm a big fan!!!

Love
Anna :banana:
Annalo57
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby nomojo3479 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:40 am

Sdd, u r Killing it... proud of you man... hang in there.. ur soooooo close to freedom!!
User avatar
nomojo3479
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 am
Location: CA

PreviousNext

Return to Sub Sux

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Rascal123 and 2 guests