My Taper Journal

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 pm

Sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, yawn, yawn, yawn, sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, yawn, yawn, sneeze, yawn, sneezw, yawn.

This made up pretty much my entire day. Once I drop below .4 mg/day: sneeze, yawn, repeat. If I didn’t feel like such crap most of the time it would be funny. I never yawn, like never. And I sneeze like once a year. Right now, the sneeze and yawn counter are battling for highest number.

I take this as a good sign though. Something is happening and I know these are both hallmark signs of opiate detox. Now,what would be just super great would be if I read somewhere credible that ‘sneezing and yawning signal the end of any opiate detox and are a sure sign the patient is now opiate free’. That’s actually true, I, in fact, just read that, I wrote it down, and then read it.

So Cheeps....the Cheep Cheep Cheep video I sent you is a clip from a cult classic movie called ‘The Room’. It’s considered ‘The Godfather’ or ‘Citizen Kane’ of BAD movies. It’s shown at theaters at midnight and has a huge audience participation following where people dress up like the characters and yell dialogue at the screen. But here’s the interesting part, James Franco and his brother Dave just released a movie called “The Disaster Artist” (roomerd to be an Oscar winner for Franco). It’s a movie about a movie. So the Disaster Artist is kinda a remake, but not. Anyway, I’m coming down later this month and we’re going to see it. And yes, there’s a lot of cheeping in the new version too, it’s even in the trailer for like a second...Cheep Cheep.

Status Report:

.375 tid Alprazolam
.35 mg hs Buprenorphine
100% health promoting diet
Forcing fucking myself to do a daily gym workout
Trying to cope with various intermittent symptoms, e.g., the lead suit, rubber legs, RLS, RAS, insomnia, hypersomia, depression, crying at just about anything like fucking coffee commercials and anything with a dog in it, dead penis syndrome followed by periods of, shall we say, the extreme opposite of that...and other crazy stuff that usually makes no sense...and especially, at least for now, sneeze, yawn.


Hang in there everyone...
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.1 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Awww you betcha!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:23 am

doing great diet doc, 0.35 is a huge accomplishment in itself, you should be proud. I never even made it close to that, had to jump off a skyscraper instead, it was a long ass fall. Tapering to such a low amount will help a lot in the long run, stick with it and don't change a thing bc whatever you are doing, it's working.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:13 pm

SDD?...on my way to work.....yeeeehaw....can't wait to see you and go cheeping!!
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
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Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:41 pm

SDD you're doing just great! Hang in there. You've totally got this. Thanks for the updates too. Enquiring minds need to know.

Hope the yawning/sneezing calms down for you real soon!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:30 pm

Ok...I’m only posting this to report progress and symptoms, it’s not just me whining and complaining.

I have been trying harder than ever to see this through. Pushing my self to move, go out, do shit, etc. I am in. Best Buy right now and my legs hurt so much I’m not sure I can make to back to my car. I have achy legs (what I call leggy eggs) so bad right now there are no words for how bad this hurts. I was going to go out to dinner and see the Disaster Artist but I literary have to go home. I can’t walk, my legs don’t work right. It shit. This is terrible.

I did finally get my home stretch withdrawal bed delivered today. I’ve been sleeping on the floor because it just felt better with the RLS and constant movement. But I got a super king Temperpedic Cloud eating at home. I’ll crawl back to my cave and stay there for a while...like 3 months!
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.1 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Awww you betcha!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:28 pm

I'm so sorry about this! The only thing I can say is that this too shall pass. You can do this. Keep fighting! You're strong & can beat this shit.

I'm so glad you got a new mattress. Sleeping on the floor must have been difficult to say the least.

Others will come along with more advice than I know how to give. But I'm here for you.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:51 am

Thanks Cat. You know I’m hurting badly with all those typos in my post. Sorry.

I have this thought sometimes that maybe, for a multitude of reasons, I’m only getting a tiny amount of what the actual measured dose is. Things like using expired strips, oxidation, contact with skin and instruments during cutting and handling, and of course there is the huge variable of oral absorption. The sublingual veins are on the inferior surface of the tongue, not the superior surface of the floor of the mouth. So I notice a big difference when I place a piece of film directly on the darkest section of vein and don’t allow my tongue to touch the floor of my mouth for 10-15 minutes. This is hard to do without swallowing but there is absolutely a marked difference in potency. I also always cut my dose in 1/2 and place one piece on each side of my tongue. Another thing that increases absorption is just prior to dosing, hold hot water in your mouth (as hot as you can stand it) and do that several times. Also take a fresh toothbrush and manually irritate the veins by gently brushing under your tongue along the veins. This causes profound vasodilation and I notice a huge difference when I do hot water rinses, brush the surfaces, and place the film directly on the veins. I usually don’t care about any of this but I’m getting hit with full-on withdrawal at about the 16 hour mark after my last dose. As that time gets shorter and the dose lasts closer to 24 hours I know I’ve gained some detox ground. I’ve also been clock watching again, fighting to sweat out that 24 hour mark. I have to force myself to defocus on the clock and try to distract myself.

I have made two week supplies of these dosages:

.32
.27
.22
.18
.13
.09
.045

If I stay at where I’m currently at through the holidays, which is my plan, and I stick to this taper, I wouldn’t jump until April 15, 2018. I know I was just writing about not referencing time but sometimes you need at least an idea of what it looks like. April 15th is a jump date if everything goes perfectly and I don’t reverse or hold at any dose longer. Really makes me question this long, slow approach. I’d be fine if it were so ‘low and slow’ it was a symptomless taper, but that’s not the case. I really don’t believe you can get the human body to reverse opiate habituation without experiencing symptoms. The person that figures out how to do this will change history. But it will do as much damage as it will good. I don’t want to trip my balls off on Ibogaine but if it truly worked I’d be on a plane to Costa Rica in a New York minute. What about Ibogaine under anesthesia?!? Just a propofol drip for 16 hours with an Ibogaine infusion and airway management and you wake up well rested, with zero concept of time passed, totally opiate free. I’d take that ride.

I know I’m rambling. Thanks for letting me. April 15th, fuck me.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.1 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Awww you betcha!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:17 am

It's normal to wonder if you are even getting the entire dose because of everything you described. But you're better off taking more sub than burning your mouth. How well will those receptors work if you degrade them anyway? Stabilize yourself. From my point of view, I'd say take 0.35 one day then 0.40 another day and alternate until you can handle the 0.35 alone. That 0.05 will cover all your bases in terms of handling, expiration, oxidation, etc. By the way, I'm guessing you didn't know this but the strips are not uniform, so you aren't getting the same amount every day. The bup is "brushed on" the strip so it's definitely not even close to uniform. This is probably exactly what you're feeling. Are you still cutting strips or using liquid taper?
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:28 am

I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.- I love this quote.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Steve m proud of you....this is the first time in months you've OCDed and posted a taper. You used to do it twice a week. Yes, it's wearing you down but you are so much stronger than you were. You have settled down


How's the mighty ketchup dong?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:23 pm

Thanks for the responses. I don’t ‘burn’ , injure or damage my mouth at all when I induce vasodilation. I probably just didn’t describe my methods that well. I should have said “warm water rinse”, etc.

As far as the homogenous distribution of buprenorphine and naltrexone on the substrate film I find a plethora of conflicting opinions on this.

So on Monday I’ll call and or email MonoSol Rx LLC, Warren, NJ 07059. They are the only manufacturers of suboxone film. I will find the right people and get the actual information. Now I have to know.

I just read about the process, and it’s rich with scientific tradecraft (which I will know when I speak with them). But the sources I read do not make it clear if one or both drugs are evenly distributed edge to edge.

If you have any data or references or have a definitive answer let me know.

Sometimes I can see a stripe like appearance of light and dark bars across the strip. I don’t know for sure. I know doctors that prescribe partial strips and have patients cut them, but that’s noncluclusive.

I am interested. If it’s not it’s definitely a pattern which might effect how to cut a strip and maintain dose integrity.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.1 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Awww you betcha!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby nomojo3479 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:54 am

Hey sdd.. fucking proud of you man. .35 is fucking awesome! Hang in there, idk because I’ve never been that low but I’d imagine you will adjust soon.
Also, I posted about it in my thread but I ran across this newly fda approved opiate detox treatment on Facebook. It’s called a nuero-stim system bridge (the picture looked like a headband).. apparently it zaps 4 cranial nerves with electrical impulses and this reduced the effect of withdrawal., or that’s what they claim anyway... I think they are pretty expensive but I’ve been thinking about trying to get one somehow..
anyway I respect your opinion and wanted to hear your thoughts about the product..
anyway, I know your feeling rough so no pressure to respond. Just something I wanted your thoughts on when time permits,
Thanks homey, ur doing great, it is so inspiring to me... we are both gonna beat this gorilla off our backs one way or another
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby SmottleB » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:37 am

Subverted DietDoc wrote:Thanks for the responses. I don’t ‘burn’ , injure or damage my mouth at all when I induce vasodilation. I probably just didn’t describe my methods that well. I should have said “warm water rinse”, etc.

As far as the homogenous distribution of buprenorphine and naltrexone on the substrate film I find a plethora of conflicting opinions on this.

So on Monday I’ll call and or email MonoSol Rx LLC, Warren, NJ 07059. They are the only manufacturers of suboxone film. I will find the right people and get the actual information. Now I have to know.

I just read about the process, and it’s rich with scientific tradecraft (which I will know when I speak with them). But the sources I read do not make it clear if one or both drugs are evenly distributed edge to edge.

If you have any data or references or have a definitive answer let me know.


Sometimes I can see a stripe like appearance of light and dark bars across the strip. I don’t know for sure. I know doctors that prescribe partial strips and have patients cut them, but that’s noncluclusive.

I am interested. If it’s not it’s definitely a pattern which might effect how to cut a strip and maintain dose integrity.


DD, something I know is Suboxone is water soluble, IMO, the more hydrated the body the better absorption. I used to think all kinds of things why it wouldn’t work sometimes. I was probably dehydrated. For me dosing At 0.1 mg of an 8mg strip, the bupe seems to be pretty damn even. I believe a more controlled environment would be necessary to guess about the nalaxone. Sometimes I can feel the Nal, but most times not. The real answer will be interesting I’m sure.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:50 am

Hey SDD I know you're trying to get every .0000001 mg that you deserve from your current dose. I've just decided that if I don't (for whatever reason) I just consider it getting closer to my next drop. Now that my mouth has calmed down & is a okay I just take my current dose & don't worry about it anymore.

I hope you're feeling well today!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Annalo57 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:36 pm

Hey SDD. Its been a while since I posted on your thread, and I'm sorry for that. You are a little ahead of me, I'm at .46mg at this point. I am split dosing .23mg. This is day 7 on that dose. I just wanted to say that you can do this. I'm sorry you have had problems with leg pain and all the other shit. I've been using the liquid taper, with Subtext tablets so i don't have to deal with the naloxone. I was using a small piece of cotton rolled up in a ball but now my dose is low enough that I just squirt the shit under my tongue and hope for the best. I figure if I lose a bit, its ok. After all I'm trying to get off this stuff so if I'm getting less than I think, I'm ok with it.

Anyway i don't want to hijack your thread. I just wanted to say that I'm still here. You're still here. We're still here. That is the bottom line. Keep posting and rambling. Its so helpful. I can only read or type in spurts right now cuz the eyes are wonky (Cheeps says that the eyeballs get kinda squooshed which causes vision issues), but I do come on here and read as much as I can and I try to at least keep my own thread up to date. The point is that I may not always post, but I do try to read everyday on SS. Yours is one of the threads I keep up with. You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for. You are actually kicking ass!! And you are a source of strength for me, so thank you for every single word.

Be well my friend. You are in my thoughts.

Anna :banana:
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:03 am

Thanks Anna and hi everyone. I’ve been laying low for a while. I hope everyone got through the holidays and had some good times...despite any and all on-going battles in our respective lives.

Personally, I definitely used some extra heathen devil fuel to make it through said holidays. Nothing too extreme or derailing, but I must admit I couldn’t have made it the mall to get gifts and to those lovely holiday dinners without at least a little of what I call ‘fake energy’. Of course I’m embarrassed to profess this but my truth, no matter how bad, might help the next guy. I lost a little ground on tapering off Xanax but I’ve held onto my suboxone goal. I do think I am paying some pain tax for my holiday digressions. I spiked a bit more than I realized (it’s so easy to lose ground) based upon how crappy I feel. But there could be other factors making me feel badly or at least adding to any medicinal pain.

I didn’t back-slide anywhere near as much as my past digressions but I sure do feel like crap. Is it just me or does anyone else notice, at times, sub taper dosing can have a more profound effect on mood and depression than on the physical symptom side? Meaning when you take a dose you feel more improvement mentally/emotionally than physically. Anyway, I read where they’re applying for off-label approval to use Suboxone/buperenorphine to treat depression. If anyone has ever been on the many pro-suboxone sites it’s proclaimed effectiveness as an antidepressant is ubiquitous. That’s sad, pun intended.

I have one more day at my current sub dose. This Monday I hit an important bench-mark. It will be the first time in over a year of tapering and several previous attempts (although half-hearted) that I made it into the “0.2’s”! Even though I feel like crap I’m still planning on this drop.

So, Monday, probably, I will be at .27 mg/day. It’s been a mental goal for a long time. I don’t know why but my heart says if I make it to a 1/4 milligram I’ll make it to the end. Worst case is I hold for a few days at .32 mg to see if I feel a little better, but either way...I will own .27 mg.

My only ‘transgression’ since New Years Eve is I took my regular dose before 24 hours. Not like 8 or 12 hours but in the 18-20 hour range. I fight this sometimes and can usually distract myself to make it to 24 but I have to admit, it’s not physical relief I’m trying to procure (taking my ‘regular’ taper dose doesn’t seem to effect/improve me physically at all, it’s more like it just keeps me from feeling worse, but not actually better) it’s the depression side it helps and that makes me want to take my dose. There’s no question, at least right now, taking my dose has a huge positive effect on my mood. Of course this sucks, it’s basically the definition of drug addiction. It just seems a lot more pronounced right now. It’s definitely not a placebo effect, it’s noticeable, tangible relief.

It might take a few extra days to get there if I have to do that whole ‘listen to your body thing’ but one day very soon I will make .27 mg/day my bitch.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.1 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Awww you betcha!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:59 am

I do not believe the depression relief has anything to do with drug addiction. It truly helps the mental in hormonal ways. Mentally depentdant takes on a whole new meaning for me with this drug. That's why it's such a mindfuck. The physical is bearable...especially with judicious use of of a comfort med. there isn't anything to relieve the depression lack of sub causes except getting the fuck off. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :gaah:

The only escape from it is sleep or stupor from Thorazine....it's insanity to ignore or determine it any other way. After the brain has been introduced to sub....and you get off....down the road, if you use pills or other opies, the mental returns. A constant reminder of your old buddy ole pal....Buttfuck Bupe.

At least...it's this way for me. :problem: :thumbdown: :problem: :lolno:

And this is why I consider it so dangerous and such a horrible horrible maintenance drug. :ogeez:

SVDD?...you will get this....I know you will....I'm betting a pound of ground round on it. :mrgreen:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:24 am

So great to hear from you SDD. Here's hoping your drop to .27 will be an uneventful success! You deserve it after doing such a loooong & sloooow taper. This will pay off in spades after you jump. Every ounce of suffering now will be an ounce after your jump that will have already been conquered. This is what I believe from what I've read here.

Regarding the sub mind fuck I believe that I'm a bit lucky (so far). I've been treated for 10+ years for Bipolar II with Seroquel & Xanax. After a particularly hard drop I doubled my Seroquel intake & it totally alleviated my depression. Since then, each drop has been for the most part only physical & very little mental. I feel very lucky about this.

This is only my experience, but if it helps someone then I'm grateful. I keep reading that the mental is the worst. I'm sure my time will come (at 2.5 now) but I'm glad I have Seroquel in my arsenal.

If any of this helps then that's great. If not, then forget it. After all, every one is different. So very different.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:38 pm

So here’s an open question:

This is how I feel about MY tapering. I believe that to be at/on any particular dose you have to be able to go 24 hours between each dose or it doesn't count. I mean if it’s once or twice in say a two week stretch at one particular dose that’s fine. But if you’re consistently dosing less than 24 hours between each dose you ain’t actually on that dose.

But would it possible to use time as a detox/taper variable in my favor? I mean look at the unique and brilliant Meow Method of alternate day dosing.

So here’s my idea/question, and I’m just putting this out there (and I can’t be the first one to think of this, I’m not that clever):

I want to drop to .27 mg tomorrow. I’m having a tough time with .31 (my current dose). After about 16 hours I’m in withdrawal. What if I dosed 16 hours apart and added 1/2 hour between each dose per day. In 16 days I’d be at .27 mg every 24 hours...boom...next bag-o-sub please! .22 mg to be exact.

So: day 1, 16 hours, day 2, 16.5 hours, day 3, 17 hours...day 16, 24 hours.

We could call this one the ‘I have no balls and a little tiny penis with zero tolerance for discomfort and no spine method’.

But seriously, is this valid or would I just wind up stacking then crashing, causing less receptor healing and increasing pain not mitigating it? Anyone ever seen this approach before? Why do I over think everything? Can Chiropractors treat the spineless?
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ 0.1 mg 2xday
Alprazolam: Awww you betcha!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:59 am

Subverted DietDoc wrote:We could call this one the ‘I have no balls and a little tiny penis with zero tolerance for discomfort and no spine method’.


Funniest shit I've read in a long time, this gave me a genuine laugh. I'd say it's not a great method seeing as you'll be taking 0.81 in the first 49.5 hours which is basically 0.4mg/day. You'd be going in reverse then trying to taper back down quick. You'd be better off going to a dose you can manage every 24 hours, maybe try 0.35? Are you split dosing? The whole point of the taper is to be comfortable before you drop, otherwise you're just in permanent withdrawal and that's worse than jumping. I generally try to discourage tapering both xanax and subs, it's too hard to tell which one you need more of while lowering both. How will you know if your discomfort is because of not enough xanax or not enough sub?
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