My Taper Journal

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:47 am

Actually it's time to trash his thread with any kind of scorching possible! Where the hell are you mofo? :twisted: I want to see you on the pole!

10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:10 am

This is a continuation from a post I made on Anna’s thread...

I probably should just add that I have not relapsed and for the first time not jumped way back up when things got shall we say, uncomfortable. My mistake was I couldn’t take the relentless insomnia and took a bit of a Xacation. The problem is I crossed the line, too much dosing in a day for too many consecutive days. Now I am pissed becasue I now have to taper off both Xanax and Suboxone and I was 100% Xanax free my entire Suboxone taper. Now I’m in the 0.4 mg a day range and doing well but again now I have to taper Benzos at the same time. I’ll do it, I don’t give a shit. Bring it on. Fuck it, more pain just means more fun. Taking it was nice for a while. I took Xanax for 21 days - big doses though - 6 mg 2-3 times a day. I actually FORGOT to take my sub TWICE! I have some amnesia. It’s crosssed my mind that perhaps I should just jump off the sub at .45 mg/day and stay drunk on Xanax for a month and then just taper off Xanax. I have zero
problems tapering off Xanax. Right now I’m taking 3, 1 mg Xanax q8h. I can taper off that in a month no problem. I’ll be off Xanax and in the 0.3s mg of sub. I am pissed I let the Xanax get away from me though. I think I should taper more on sub...that’s what my gut tells me. I could have gotten away with a week or maybe 10 days but 3 weeks at 12-18 mg a day...whoops. But I slept. After 10 worthless sleep medications I slept, I think I may have even masturbated a few times, but I can’t rememeber. I’m still on 3 mg/day I haven’t slept for a single moment. I guess I broke my brain.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Annalo57 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:58 am

DietDoc. Hi there!!! First of all thank you for posting on my thread. I appreciate it. I love finding that someone has posted on my thread. It makes me feel so less alone.

I started to read your entire thread but I can't focus on reading or typing for long periods of time, so I'll finish it in installments (though I did jump to the end from page 3). Now my head is full from everything I read so far. It feels like I'm reading myself sometimes.

I have 1mg Xanax but I never take more than 2 in a day and I don't take it 2 days in a row, at least I usually don't. I know that, as this taper goes on, I might need to take more, but I'm trying to put that off.

I'm feeling mostly ok today, I'm on .43mg 2 x daily at this point. Its going to take me a long time to get through this, but I figure if I can do it right once then I won't be prolonging the pain. I'm a little worried that this liquid method is imprecise and that I don't really know how much I'm getting. I'm sure it's less than measured. But I guess thats ok.

Anyway I just wanted to stop in and really thank you for reaching out to me. This kind of support is so important for me. If I didn't have a place to dump my shit, I don't think I'd have made it this far. I think I would have given up. Detox is a painful and lonely place, you need to make friends there. I will finish reading your thread and follow it moving forward.

I hope your having a decent day today. Keep the faith.

Anna Banana :banana:
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:01 pm

I think you need to stay out of the sleeping meds. Every time you use a benzo, you take a HUGE chance that you won't have issues getting off. You worry me.....find your key to the drugstore and throw it in the river!

You've been out of it for three weeks now! :suicide: :suicide:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Annalo57 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:09 pm

Hey Doc. How you doing today??? I just read to page 5 of your thread and i wanted to say that I know exactly how it feels when you need to vent, and when you want to throw in the towel. I admire your honesty. You strike me as a bit of a control freak (no offense meant) and that you want to control your body instead of allowing it to control you. At least thats how it seemed in June. This is October, perhaps, when I continue reading tomorrow, I will find that you have given up trying to control this thing. I know I can't do it faster than I need to, no matter how much I want this shit over and done. I am currently in the acceptance process. This is going to take a long time. No way to get around that. It sucks and sucks and sucks some more. But it is what it is. I have decided, I'm doing this once or I'm not doing it at all. I'm not gonna spend the next 20 years trying to get off. I get off or I don't. If I don't, I will consider "other options". Is that really dark???? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby nomojo3479 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:29 am

Benzo blackout.. that can be scary.. glad to hear ur came out the other side dd. Keep fighting bro
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby nomojo3479 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:34 am

Yo dd, where u at bro? Post an update, let us know ur not in a benzo blackout., or even if you are post anyway. I just wanna see an update,
Thx bud
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:35 am

I just removed yet another ridiculously long post. Here’s all I need to say: After almost 2 months of no sleep and nearly constant anxiety, and having tried about a dozen meds for sleep with no benefit I got out a 3 year old bottle of Xanax. I started out carefully but somewhere along the way the addict in me got activated and I just hit the button that says fuck it. 4 weeks of daily use later I have now created a dual addiction, the famous B&B is back. I tapered off the benzos first so I could then go after the buprenorphine. I hate myself. I just finally dropped my daily dose by 80% on day one (15 mg to 3 mg). I’m 22 hours in. I had an actual panic attack this morning (which is why I wrote a 5 page post). If the 3 mg/d dose is enough to keep me from going postal I might be able to fight my way back. I can taper off of 3 mg in 8 weeks. I am sad, mad, embarrassed and scared. But I am not a terrible person. I just lost it for a little while. I’ll stay on 3 mg for a week and feel grateful if I can start my taper from there. I don’t even like Xanax, but it was nice to have a few weeks off of work.

Sorry my posts are ridiculously long. If I can help anyone in anyway just let me know. I don’t want to bitch and whine, I want to give. I’m doing some research via WHO/NIH for Eyedotz into ‘Long-Term Effects and Outcomes of Dietary and Supplmental Phytochemicals on Retnal Microvasulature Dedegeration Syndromes’.

(I work with P.C.R.M. In Washington and I don’t ever use a manufacturer’s data.)

Anyway, I had a panic attack today. I also screwed up and have to fix a big mistake. I’m a good guy but I still really suck at life.
Last edited by Subverted DietDoc on Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:18 pm

I believe that my very long post is an actual literary representation of an authentic, full-blown panic attack. I just went from 15 mg a day of Xanax for almost 4 weeks to 3 mg a day. So, there’s that. I have a plan B if the 3 mg a day doesn’t keep the Glock 9mm locked away. Sorry I write so much. Just once I’d like to write, ‘hi everyone...I’m feeling like a normal person again’.

I really do wish you all the best this world has to offer and that you win all your battles.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Eyedotz » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:06 pm

Hey DD,
Hang in there dude. Please don't be ashamed of what happened. This is the world we live in man...being addicts, we will face challenges with EVERYTHING for the rest of our lives. I'm currently using zzz quil to sleep but I'm trying not to make it a habit. I'm super stressed at work and most nights I can't turn my overthinking thoughts down. It works so good but I still need to keep my head in the game. Addiction is fucking cruel and unfair sometimes. The important thing here is that you keep trying man.

By the way, you're a sweet guy for looking up eye shit for me...shits scary and I'm reading whatever I can. If changing my entire diet will help me not lose vision, then so be it. I'm currently trying to get into a clinical trial. It's in phase 3 right now and it involves putting implants in my eyeballs. Fucking freaky shit. Risky too. I don't know man...I'm gonna by to talk to the foundation tomorrow. But seriously, thanks for thinking about me man.

Please stick around even through the ups and downs. You should know by now that we are a judge free zone and we get each other and support each other. It's just the way it is. Hugs my friend, dotz

Ps. Funny how my name is eyedotz (has been for years... I love bird eyes) and now I have dead spots in my vision. Aka eye dots.
Eyedotz Spotify playlist (EDM Detox Mix)
https://open.spotify.com/user/eyedotz/p ... luHItCVAiQ
13 Year Sub survivor - Jumped at .03mg after 9 month taper from 4-6mg.
JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

Forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know before you learned it.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:54 pm

That is weird dotz....real weird.


DD...just post yer shit....if i didn't jump yer ass...then that means I don't care....and I do care. You scared the shit out of me because I knew something was up.

As to worrying about being a good person...I'm pretty sure you need to quit obsessing over that!! Like I said before...you need to lose the fucking drugstore key....and please go slower on this new benzo taper....don't go batshit crazy because you feel guilty! :spank: :spank: :ogeez:

Slow down, regain your senses and start over....we've all been thru shit like this. :banghead: :banghead:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:10 pm

Thanks for those kind hearted words. I will pass along anything of solid scientific value I find. The diet and nutrition arena has more snake oil salesmen then any other industry...but there I go again over writing.

So your screename...I actually went over your old posts to see if you mention MD years back because I thought of exaclty that same connection. And when you examine a retina through an occuloscope/retinoscope you see Eyedotz.

You’re going to be OK. There was a guy in my class who had a rare form of MD. He was older than most of us. We were mostly mid 20s and he was 42 (he was a pharmacist). Anyway he’s 70 now and still sees patients. And he already had to posture vision when we were in school. I know it’s only one anecdotal case but they told him he had 10 years of vision prognosis...32 years ago. There’s no set rules in medicine. And lifestyle will always effect everything always. Check out PCRM...those dudes are way ahead of everything. I also like John McDoughal...he’s done a lot with diabetic MD...all diet related research.

Best to you and thanks.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:46 am

Steve....I love that website! The other one you gave me was a little intimidating but I feel pretty comfortable with this....thank you....maybe I can give myself the mental ass kicking I need now... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:25 pm

Subject: My Taper Journal

Subverted DietDoc wrote:Thanks for those kind hearted words. I will pass along anything of solid scientific value I find. The diet and nutrition arena has more snake oil salesmen then any other industry...but there I go again over writing.

Check out PCRM...those dudes are way ahead of everything. I also like John McDoughal...he’s done a lot with diabetic MD...all diet related research.

Best to you and thanks.


Steve.... I've signed up for EVERYTHING on this website...your experience with diet is phenomenal and I thank YOU so much for sending me down these paths. Like you said...there are a billion diet places and you've just helped me cut through the CRAP.

And hey.... I've been sugaring out for three weeks now myself....and to me...it's just as bad as eating xanaxes. I'm really hoping I can get back on track now. I feel like total shit and today I'm going to clean out my icebox and commit to eating better. I have to quit going down the bad aisles at the grocery store....I have to throw away my key to hell. I've regained seven fucking pounds and hurt like hell...all in the name of comfort foods. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Most peeps don't understand this but you do...I wish you would give me a good shellacking over it because I take you very seriously. I really feel like you are the only one who can HELP me. :kiss:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:35 pm

My update (without writing a novel to state it).

As of Sunday:

Buprenorphine: 4.0 mg total per day (taken once per day)
Alprazolam: 2.5 mg total per day (taken in divided doses 3 times per day)

10-15% reduction every 14 days of buprenorphine
.25 mg reduction of benzodiazepine every 5 days

I screwed up starting benzodiazepine use again while still bupe tapering but 2.5 mg will take me less than 9 weeks to end. I’m not as depressed about taking too much as I was. I have a good taper plan and I’m feeling in control, not like the crazy guy who couldn’t take anymore. I’m doing that thing again where I write too much. I have a messsgae for Cheeps but I think I’ll finally go find her perssonsl thread and post it there.

Peace to All!

The Subverted
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:04 am

Hahahah....

I just noticed I wrote I am currently taking 4.0 mg of buprenorphine per day!!!

I meant to write that I’m taking 0.40 mg of buprenorphine a day.

That’s only a 90% difference, no big deal!

Wow that’s cool though. I started at 16 mg so .4/16 x 100% = 2.5% 100% - 2.5% = 97.5% reduction

I have tapered 97.5% off a ‘medication’, taking almost a year to do that, and I still feel like I’m just getting started for the hard part. 97.5% off and all the pain is in front of me. I know of no other drug that works like this, and I know drugs. .4 mg or 400 ug of buprenorphine is 50 times more equipotent than morphine. I think I missed that section where they disclose that in the Suboxone brochure.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:30 am

Subverted DietDoc wrote:Hahahah....

I just noticed I wrote I am currently taking 4.0 mg of buprenorphine per day!!!

I meant to write that I’m taking 0.40 mg of buprenorphine a day.

That’s only a 90% difference, no big deal!

Wow that’s cool though. I started at 16 mg so .4/16 x 100% = 2.5% 100% - 2.5% = 97.5% reduction

I have tapered 97.5% off a ‘medication’, taking almost a year to do that, and I still feel like I’m just getting started for the hard part. 97.5% off and all the pain is in front of me. I know of no other drug that works like this, and I know drugs. .4 mg or 400 ug of buprenorphine is 50 times more equipotent than morphine. I think I missed that section where they disclose that in the Suboxone brochure.




Yeeeeeeah....I was mildly freaking out when I read that part. Whaaaaa? Hadn't gotten to the T yet.

Ok...next phase....what you should kinda feel. You gather up your sub, put it ALL in one place on the table in front of you....and meditate in front of it.....because in about 2 days you will kiss it goodby. MAKE DAMN SURE YOU FIND IT ALL. Look in all corners and pockets, eyeglass cases, every fucking place you can think of....find it and put it in that fuckngnasty jar wth VINEGAR, shake vigorously and when all the dope is gone from the house, toss in the bushes somewhere. Now you feel free but freaked out....doesn't matter....get to work and start staying busy...use the same basic routine you were on when you were in a healthier phase...not a benzo haze. :gaah:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Don_Pisto » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:30 pm

Hello Diet Doc,

I was getting caught up and I also noticed the typo of 4mg vs 0.4mg but knew right away it was a typo. What a war you are fighting. I admire your persistence and for hanging in there and licking your wounds and fighting on. Look how far you’ve come from 16mg. Yes, you’ve beeen low before, but you’re determined and fighting and the pain doesn’t last forever. Stay stubborn. This is the tough part, but really the misery isn’t going to last forever and you’re going to emerge as a stronger person. You still got some fighting to do, so keep at it.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:19 am

Today is the last day of .45 mg/day. Tomorrow begins 14 days of .40 mg/day. Nothing will change. If I’m going to be tired or going to feel wired - either way it will be the same. Any sense of exacerbation is just psychological. I’m not saying you don’t legitimately feel drops but I just know in my gut this will be a symptomless drop. That’s just the way it is.

I’m not ready to burn it all yet. I am finally used to the psychology and rhythm of tapering. I feel stable. This is the lowest dose I have ever been on or made it to, and for the longest. Logically there will be some kind of a threshold dose where I’m going the feel it. I’m kind of doing that whole one day at a time thing...when I feel it I’ll decide my next move. For now, I’m stable both physically and psychologically. If it’s aint broke, don’t fix it.

I still regret the benzo brown out (not quite a black out) and I’ve already tapered down to .75 mg tid. It may be why I’m feeling pretty decent, although I don’t think so. I’ve taken benzo for withdrawal and it doesn’t really take it down. But that’s acute, cold turkey withdrawal, not a long slow taper, so it’s confusing.

Either way, if you see sub please give her a message for me, tell her I said: go fuck yourself.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
Alprazolam: Tapered off May 2016 - Started again October 2017 currently tapering
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CatsMeow » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:23 pm

Big congrats on being on your last day of .45. Such a huge accomplishment & your head seems to be in a very good place. Your outlook for your next drop is so positive. To hear you say "I am finally used to the psychology and rhythm of tapering" is such an uplifting statement. I kind of feel that way too although I'm so very far behind you. But that's okay, I'll get there too my friend.

I've been on Xanax at 2 - 1 mg per day for 10+ years (along with Seroquel). These 2 drugs together have done such a good job keeping my Bipolar II bearable. But now that I'm on subs, I just don't like the way I feel when I take the benzo. I'm currently dropping .25 mg's. I'm not sure what a benzo taper feels like, but I've been okay for the 2 weeks since I dropped. I feel like I need to get off this stuff for now. May need it at low sub doses or after my jump so I want it to be available to me at time.

Since starting subs I question everything I take & drink. Never really did that before. I'm glad you're down to .75 on the benzo. That's a real accomplishment IMO. Especially thick in the middle of your sub taper. Good going!

Here's hoping your drop tomorrow goes really well with no issues at all!
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