My Taper Journal

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: My Taper Journal

Postby The Blind Ass » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:33 am

watching and rooting for you doc give it your all!... and Annedee that profile pic made me laugh out loud this morning.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby DietDoc » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:29 am

I am going to try to keep my posts short. I screwed it up, again. I wiggled my way back up to 4 mg/day (for a month) since my last post when I had just made it to 0.7 mg/day. Bummer. But I am back and committed, or recommitted. I have made it back to 0.6 mg/day. Today is only day one at this dose. I wanted to wait to post again until I made it one dose lower than I was on when I last posted. Anyway...0.6 mg/day...using film...dosing once per day. I have pre-cut doses sealed and locked away in a safe I can't open. I am given one dose per day by the sub fairy. I am reducing an average of 15% every 10 days. If I have litigate symptoms I will extend the length of time at that dose but not go up. This is the best plan I can conceive based on all I have read and my personal experience. My birthday is August 6th and it would be nice to wake up on that day free of the strip.

Thanks to all the brave souls that have gone before me and shared their experiences and wisdom.

PS: I am reading The Power of Now by Ekhart Tolle and I am loving it. Ever read something and feel like it was created and written just for you? I have spent years focused on the physical body but never addressed the mental/spiritual side of life. This just might help me a lot, and perhaps someone else. There's some YouTube video that discussed this work if anyone is interested.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby CheeZeeAnnDee » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:34 pm

Glad you're back! It sounds like you have a solid plan, and using a safe sounds pretty smart.

I started Power Of Now when I started my taper but never finished it. Maybe I should check it out again. I liked the first part of it, but then I just couldn't stay focused. Come to think of it, I've only been reading short stories lately...time to get my attention span back in working order.

Looking forward to watching you get to where you want to be DietDoc. :shred:
All you have is your fire
And the place you need to reach
Don't you ever tame your demons
But always keep them on a leash

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Telling subs to fuck off since March 20, 2017
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Subblind » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:27 pm

Much R espected new attempt doc...always my best wishes for you sir.perhaps this book may be exactly what you need to succeed this time...stay onboard and keep us posted
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:00 am

Ima gonna whoop that ass next time you stay away so long :spank: :spank:

I expect weekly reports and give the sub fairy full permission to kick your ass too. :MrT: :mrgreen:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
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Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby DietDoc » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:41 pm

haha That's great. Thanks, I needed that.

So my update has some turbulence for sure.

As I wrote, I had a pretty severe backslide. A combination of guilt, sadness and frustration resulted in some bad taper strategy. In an effort to make up for my transgression (and thinking since I was only on a high-er dose for a month) I went way too fast and hit the wall at what felt like 1000 miles an hour.

I went from 4 mg to 0.6 mg in about 6 weeks. Big drops every 6 days. I knew better but thought I'd be OK, I wasn't. I went into textbook withdrawal. Full-blown gastrointestinal 'issues' (2 exits, no waiting) chills, neuromuscular symptoms...the works. I would have dealt with some symptoms but this was way over the top.

The sub fairy actually demanded that I, shall we say, recalabrate. I resisted, I was really depressed, but I now see that this is not backsliding. This is being flexible.

I hit the wall at 0.6 mg qd. I was only on that dose for 2 days, which makes sense as far as developing symptoms. So, the new plan looks like this..and I really would appreciate any and all input on this:

10-15% dose reductions
14 days at each dose
Starting at 1 mg
Dosing once per day

I am totally asymptomatic at 1 mg/day. This plan is the slowest I have ever gone but every time I've gone faster I have had difficulties, especially the lower doses. 'Lower go slower' should be the mantra for this drug, at least for me!

Does my plan seem sound? I worry about once-a-day dosing. When I got down to about 0.3 mg last year (yea, I know) despite the drug being active for 72 hours it totally wore off after about 12 hours and I was in pretty bad withdrawal. But that time I was reducing every 7 days and I was using tables that I guesstimated the dosage by filing them down with an emery board and just eying up the dose by the size of the tablet...a very ambiguous method. Now I have strips and the dose accuracy is very precise.

Well that's it from f#*k-up central. Thanks to all that care and all that share. I have to go cry now, again.

PS: I called my doctor to refill my sub, something I have successfully done for a long while...and this time I can not believe what my doctor did...instead of calling in 2 or 3 boxes of sub she actually called in Stadol! Wow. Talk about clueless. THE ENTIRE PRESCRIPTION (A ONE MONTH SUPPLY) IS EQUIVALENT TO ABOUT 1.5 MG OF SUB. No call to discuss it, no consultation, just a unilateral decision. Malpractice for sure.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Don_Pisto » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:59 pm

DietDoc wrote:I went from 4 mg to 0.6 mg in about 6 weeks. Big drops every 6 days. I knew better but thought I'd be OK, I wasn't. I went into textbook withdrawal. Full-blown gastrointestinal 'issues' (2 exits, no waiting) chills, neuromuscular symptoms...the works. I would have dealt with some symptoms but this was way over the top.

Hey, I did this too. :thumbup: :banghead: You know what you have to do now? Pick yourself up and restart and just accept it needs to be done slow. You'll make yourself miserable if you beat yourself up over this. Look how far you've come. Call it a setback and learning experience that you don't want to repeat.

DietDoc wrote:So, the new plan looks like this..and I really would appreciate any and all input on this:

10-15% dose reductions
14 days at each dose
Starting at 1 mg
Dosing once per day

Looks reasonable. Don't worry about meeting a schedule. 10-14 days between drops is a good guideline. If you feel you need a couple extra days, then take a couple extra days

DietDoc wrote:I am totally asymptomatic at 1 mg/day. This plan is the slowest I have ever gone but every time I've gone faster I have had difficulties, especially the lower doses. 'Lower go slower' should be the mantra for this drug, at least for me!

I don't want to sound discouraging but this is where the real work begins. You got this far. You can do it, but no more racing

DietDoc wrote:Does my plan seem sound? I worry about once-a-day dosing. When I got down to about 0.3 mg last year (yea, I know) despite the drug being active for 72 hours it totally wore off after about 12 hours and I was in pretty bad withdrawal.

You have nothing to fear with once a day dosing. If your truly go slow. It doesn't matter; it's all mental. Seriously, it is. Also, if you go slow, you're not going to go into withdrawals. That's the whole point of tapering. You're not going to feel great though.

One more thing: if you keep focusing on how miserable it is, you will feel miserable guaranteed. This is where staying busy helps.

Don't get me wrong, tapering is not easy and you will have to accept that you're not going to always feel so great. If you go slow enough, it is bearable. I also recommend holding off adding prescription comfort meds until you get a lot lower.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby DietDoc » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Don Pisto...

Thanks for the kind words, encouragement and review and advice of my plan.

Have you tapers off totally yourself? I probably read your posts but some times I forget names.

Thanks again Don Corleone...and may your first child be a masculine child (random Godfather reference and weak attempt at humor)

DD
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Eyedotz » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:11 pm

Hi Doc! Nice to have you back old friend... Your 'new' taper plans NAILS it. Doing it this way, you will experience the sub taper as nicely as you can. The only thing I would suggest is don't be rigid on the 'once a day' dosing. Once you get lower, you may need to split dose which was integral for me so I could get some fucking sleep at night. It was a life saver and as long as you aren't spiking, you are still in the realm of a perfectly designed taper. The strips worked awesome for me. I was able to cut those bastards down to .03mg (eyelashes). Keep up the good work and I'm glad you've come back. People struggle man, that's when you need us the most!

~Dotz
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Don_Pisto » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:28 pm

DietDoc wrote:Have you tapers off totally yourself?


I hope to be able to help. I'll always be supportive to anyone battling to get off this stuff.

yes, my taper worked. I consider myself fully cured of any and all opiates. I'm literally surrounded by opiates daily and I have absolutely zero interest in having a taste. I don't want to scare you but having experienced a few failed tapers, acute withdrawals, and finally a looong slow taper where I felt crappy for a long time, I will never forget those horrible experiences and that has me completely done with opiates. I believe one has to go through some discomfort and feel at least some pain when getting off subs. If it was easy, then it would be easy to relapse. Many will disagree on this but for me, that's what it took for me to get my act together was going through some discomfort.

Miss Eyedotz: it makes my day seeing kind souls like you coming here supporting others fighting this battle even if you're a Patriots fan. :boobshake: You give a ton of generous support here and it's great you stop by here often (a lot more than I do)
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby DietDoc » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:15 pm

Thanks Eyez and Don...

Question...and this is way premature...let's say I'm taking .4 mg/day...would I just literally cut that in half and take each piece 12 hours apart? It may seem like a dumb question but even time I think I know, I don't!

I'm sitting at my desk cutting measured doses...and trying not to sub graze. I am making 10 day supplies up to .4 mg and then making 14 days. If I need to add days to 1.0 mg - .4 mg I will. 2 weeks the entire way down seemed a little bit long. I can not believe this but it's like 10 months to taper off of ONE MILLIGRAM! This is nuts. Almost a year to get off of a single milligram...whew. Crazy.

My comment about Stadol was that my 'provider' thought that she could just 'switch me' over to another drug! She didn't even talk to me about it. If I hadn't saved some extra sub I would be totally screwed. Most doctors mean well but some are nugging futz! How could she do that?!?!

Don...just curious...why are you surrounded by opiates? I am too in a way from an unfettered access standpoint.

Thanks Again All!

PS: Things could be worse...I am watching ID TVs 'Killing Richard Glossip'...he's had 3 last meals...how nuts is that...3 last meals as in he's been hours away from the death chamber THREE times. What would that be like? Whew. Great show if you have ID TV...I need to get a life I guess haha.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Don_Pisto » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:20 pm

DietDoc wrote:Don...just curious...why are you surrounded by opiates? I am too in a way from an unfettered access standpoint.


I live in Mexico and the town I am in has been experiencing a heroin epidemic the past couple years. I shouldn't say this, but the drug is very cheap and abundant here -- it can be obtained for a fraction of the price of what it would be in the US, Canada, or Europe. Also, my wife has many extra percocets and oxycodones in many unopened bottles in the house, something like 3,000 pills :o Now there are new types of tourists that come here: heroin users. Seriously, they come her for vacation to get wasted on heroin. It's pathetic. Every day I see wasted junkies sleeping in bushes and well to do "upper class" tourists completely wasted.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Eyedotz » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:22 pm

I did my split dosing a bit weird. I went 3/4 during the day and took the other 1/4 around 8pm and it would be just enough to knock the edge off on shitty sleep. Some people prefer single dosing but split dosing made it so much easier getting through the day to day.... trust me dude, tapering properly is fucking exhausting after a while, so I did what worked for me....eventually I went back to once a day dosing because, well, the bastards were too small to cut up. Try not to sweat the details and just get in routine... I agree with Don, don't get too involved with comfort meds until you are much lower. If you taper properly in 10-15% drops, you probably won't won't need any anyway. I didn't. We're here for you dude!!!!
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13 Year Sub survivor - Jumped at .03mg after 9 month taper from 4-6mg.
JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby cheeps » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:30 pm

Listen to your body man. Not your mind....your body. In my taper I know that I'm going too fast when I start to sweat. Now my brain will have me thinking all sorts of shit but I then stop and let my body tell me when I'm close to homeostasis.

In a funny way....taking a long time to get from 1 down to nothing shouldn't ever let us say...."I don't have time for this". So many here report being able to work....because they crept down.

It's the dreaded P word. Patience....it's such a bitch!! But it makes us learn...when all else fails....commit again and creep. :banghead: :banghead:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Eyedotz » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:35 pm

Right back atcha Don! I feel exactly the same when I see you pop in! Besides, I LOVE LOVE your pic! I fucking love skies! I think it's epic the way we stay around and help others the way others helped us. Cool fucking peeps on this board though. I've been pretty quiet on this board for a while... sometimes life just gets in the way once you're clean and sober. Sub tapering is an all encompassing brain obsessing trip that's for sure...once is gone, life kind of takes over. I hope to stick around for years to come until these fuckers get sick of me!

Sorry doc for the thread hijack! We do that. For example, my thread has been decimated by cheez, SB, AND CHEEPS shenanigans....gawd love em all!
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JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby DietDoc » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:44 pm

Thanks Dotz and Don...

To be clear about the 'comfort meds' thing...the drug I mentioned isn't, nor intended as, a comfort med. The reason I've been prattling on about is that my 'provider' actually SUBSTITUTED suboxone FOR Satdol! As in, 'you can just stop the suboxone and take this INSTEAD'! It's not in addition to, it's IN PLACE of! Sorry again I'm going on about this but don't you think it's crazy that a 'provider' would just DISCONTINUE suboxone (without any consultation or phone call) and just called in Stadol INSTEAD of suboxone? I find this INSANE. That's why I wrote that a 30 day supply of Stadol = about 1 mg of suboxone...and my 'provider' just 'decided' that this would be good for me. Medically speaking...WTF? I know, I'm ranting.

Don...Wholly shit! I figured you worked in a clinical setting and had tons of meds around you. I wouldn't have dreamed of what you just wrote. It's narcotic tourism! Someone needs to do a documentary about this! There's a huge surge in H use in the northeastern US as well (there's actually a few documentaries about this). Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont are all experiencing a tremendous wave of overdoses and deaths. And it's not Oxycontin, it's poppies. So sad.

I am very grateful to communicate with you. I will work hard to succeed and then help others as you have helped me.

Thanks All.

The Grazer.

PS: New term coined by Cheeps...when it comes to tapering off of sub...be a creep!
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby Don_Pisto » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:09 pm

DietDoc wrote:..... my 'provider' actually SUBSTITUTED suboxone FOR Satdol! As in, 'you can just stop the suboxone and take this INSTEAD'! It's not in addition to, it's IN PLACE of! Sorry again I'm going on about this but don't you think it's crazy that a 'provider' would just DISCONTINUE suboxone (without any consultation or phone call) and just called in Stadol INSTEAD of suboxone? I find this INSANE. That's why I wrote that a 30 day supply of Stadol = about 1 mg of suboxone...and my 'provider' just 'decided' that this would be good for me. Medically speaking...WTF? I know, I'm ranting.

PS: New term coined by Cheeps...when it comes to tapering off of sub...be a creep!


Satdol. Isn't that some nasal spray buperenorphine? I'm not familiar with it. My sub Dr. was Satan. Myabe your sub Dr is the brother or sister of the one I had?

what strength strips were you using?

I wasn't really a creep during my taper. I was a bitch.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby DietDoc » Tue May 09, 2017 8:08 am

I have a question for those of you that have slayed the bupe dragon. Somehow I have gotten into this routine of taking my sub dose in the middle of the night. I crash at 12 AM for a couple of hours and around 3:00 AM I get up and take my sub dose (one per day). It's become habit. But I have to change it because I can't get back to sleep after I take it. So I have to go back to bed at 10 or 11 am for a few hours. There are worse problems than this to be sure.

My question is should I just take my next regular dose of 1 mg at another time? I don't want to upset the balance that I finally have. It took me a while to feel stable on 1 mg...this time, haha. I suppose if I took a my dose at 7 or 8 PM that's only 7 or 8 hours before I am routinely taking it now, and if it's just a one time thing I don't think it should be a big deal...but you guys know things I don't! Am I missing anything here or over thinking it? I do that a lot, over think things.

Quick update...I am stuck on 1 mg/day right now. I think I am finally stable on this dose. Been on it for about a week now. I am going to continue it for another 4-7 days before my next reduction.

I have prepared all my doses in advance this time all the way down to .25 mg. I made 10 days of each dose and will make more for any dose that I feel like I need to extend. That's where I am at and this is my plan. Now all I need is resolve.

It's so strange...I did the 'math' and to go from .25 mg/day to 0.032 mg/day (an eyelash) at 10-15% reductions every two weeks is less than 8, 2 mg strips...just seems so weird that the most critical part of the taper requires such a small amount. I have 3 boxes in addition to the pre-cut doses of 1 mg to .25 mg but that is it. I really feel like this is do or die for me. If I don't see this through this time I will have to find another source of sub, take other narcotics or go cold turkey. None of these are good alternatives. But I am concerned I will falter.

Best to All.
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby rc51guy » Tue May 09, 2017 8:38 am

Hey DietDoc -

I've been off subs for just over two years now. I did a super fast taper so I may not be the best to help, but I'll try. So bupe did give me energy, especially at lower doses when I was tapering.

Sounds to me like your taking one 1MG dose a day now? Are you taking it at night to try and help you sleep through the night?

You can certainly do this. If your comfortable at 1 mg right now your in a good place. Now isn't the time to rush it though, now is the time to go slowly if possible. You've got to give your body more time to adjust when the doses get so small, I found they dont last nearly as long - towards the end of my quick taper, it helped to split up the dose into two. Take one in the morning, and one after workish (5-6 pm). The sub may not in fact be whats keeping you up. It may be a combination of things, including insomnia from the taper and lower levels of sub in your blood, a little anxiousness about it all, and just changes in your routine.

You will be absolutely friggin amazed how such a minuscule sliver of this stuff will affect you once you get down under .5 mg. It will surely open your eyes to just how much 8 mg really is. When I got down low, a tiny tiny tiny piece was enough to keep me semi comfortable. I slipped up about a week after I jumped because of unforeseen circumstances and took a spec of subs. It kept me feeling ok for over 24 hours until I started feeling icky again.

Any questions let me know. I'll try and help as best as I can. You got this. Its NOT impossible, even though it seems like it in your mind right now. Its not...I promise.
“The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..”
― John Milton
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Re: My Taper Journal

Postby DietDoc » Tue May 09, 2017 5:18 pm

Thanks Rc...

I am taking 1 mg once a day. I can't really remember how or why I got into the habit of taking it in the middle of the night but that's what it has become, a habit. 1 mg is still a pretty big dose and for a few hours at least it does amp me up, it always has.

Today/tonight I am going to take it after the dinner hours and just start my 25 hours cycle from there. I tried this about 8 days ago and wound up going back to the middle of the night again. I think I did sleep somewhat better not getting up and taking it. I do like taking it in the wee hours because I can relax and take the time to let it absorb fully.
Some of this is probably psychological and some logistical but I should be fine finding some quite time to take it in the early evenings. I just have to make that the new normal.

Congratulations on getting off this insanely potent drug. You are an inspiration. Part of me thinks that maybe I should taper down to a certain level and then go cold turkey...much more painful but less over time. If I am going to suffer over many months tapering why taper. I should mention that this is my third attempt and probably more like my 20th is you include all the bouncing around I have done. When I used to deviate I'd go way up...like to 4 mg or even higher from doses lower than 1 mg. At least now I when I have deviated it's a much lower dose for a shorter period.

You wrote you did a super fast taper...how fast? And why?

Thanks!

DD
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