where is the best place to start here?

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

planning taper but powerless with pills

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Fri May 20, 2016 6:11 pm

I have a HUGE problem with a taper I am planning with Suboxone, and that is this: If I have a bottle of pills, I seem to be incapable of refraining from taking them! How in the world, with that setup from the get-go, can I successfully perform a taper which will require me to refrain from taking the 16 mg. I really WANT to take? Is anyone feeling me here? Surely someone else has had this problem and figured out a way to handle it. It evidently doesn't matter to my junkie mind how important it is that I get clean (because I want it SO MUCH and my life sux on Subs, indeed), that thought just doesn't carry me through if the pills are available to me.

Any ideas?

Thanks all. I think I will go to the new members' forum and introduce myself.

Clueless
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introduction

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Fri May 20, 2016 6:22 pm

Hi, all. Wow, I feel home, with MY PEOPLE! It feels so good to be here, with people who understand what a soul-sucker Subs are instead of with a customer service rep at Reickert (sp?) telling me that they don't recommend detox, that Subs really help people in the long run. Ri-i-i-i-i-ght.

Anyway, I have been on a long drug journey for the past at least 15 years, never using methadone or Suboxone every single day, until recently, but what started out as methadone once a week gradually became my current situation of having had a final run (I hope) with 5 days of 100 mg. methadone, followed by 13 days of mostly 16 mg. of Subs. So that is why I am here. I know I haven't taken them *that* long, though if you throw in times that I've been to rehab where they gave me subs and other times I've taken them, it does add up to quite a few days overall, but I feel kind of confused about doing a full-on long-drawn-out taper since I've "only" been on them 13 days. But I guess I've laid out my path in that I made an appointment at Kaiser's Chemical Dependency Unit, but they can't see me until beginning of June, but at least then I will be prescribed enough pills to see me through a taper.

I'm SO AFRAID of having the pills in my possession, though, and knowing I can take them at any time and blow the taper. That's what I do: I blow stuff off till tomorrow! Been doing that for years! Can't get a grip on it. Any suggestions as to handling the having-the-stuff-in-my-possession quandary would be greatly appreciated.

Again, glad to be here.

Clueless
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where is the best place to start here?

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Fri May 20, 2016 6:59 pm

I'm new to the forum, don't quite know where to start. I'm getting prepared for a Sub taper. Dreading the hell out of it! :shock:

There is so much material here. Can someone direct me? Forgive my initial flakiness here, but I am still coming out of a drug haze and have just bottomed out terribly. I am a 67-year-old female who has been using drugs and alcohol and food pretty consistently all my life, and am just desperate to put it together before I check out of here.
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby WithTheLightsOut » Fri May 20, 2016 7:45 pm

Hi clue,

Welcome and congrats on your decision to taper. How long have you been on subs and how many MG per day are you currently taking?
"Jumped" March 14, 2016 from 0.2mg.
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby Eyedotz » Fri May 20, 2016 11:38 pm

Yes I agree with withthelightsout's sentiment. We need more info regarding your drug use/sub use. Most people that are going to start tapering have prepared mentally. Tapering can be a long drawn out road where perseverance is key. You have to understand that spiking (taking a little extra) will not work for this process. Please let us know how we can help you. Welcome to this forum. Please do not be afraid....I successfully tapered after 13 years and the fear was the reason I lost years I could have had sober.
Talk soon, eyedotz
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JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cheeps » Sat May 21, 2016 10:28 am

Hey girlie!! Welcome to SS, glad you found us!

There's a couple things for you to do before you taper and the more we know about you the better. To get off the dope you have to be fear free, ("and yes, we can help you with that!), and you have to be educated so that you understand the nature of this drug.

Do you get a prescription each month or buy them from someone? Do you have a pcp? Do you have a sub dr?

First, I want you to stay in this thread as we are a small forum and if you have questions, we can better answer them in one place.

Being older means you must take great care in doing this. When it is time....you will need help from the Drs so you can get some comfort meds. If you have meds you are already prescribed, some of those could help.

Please understand I will be asking you many questions about your health simply because you are over 50, the body is much different and it does matter.

So, take a big big breath!! Again, welcome to town.

PS, how did you find us?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cheeps » Sat May 21, 2016 10:53 am

Ok, clueless...I've got you all in one place....
:D Now I see why you are upset.
More questions...

How long do you stay in kaisers program when you get there?
How many times a day do you dose?

It is essential, if you truly want to LIVE the rest of your life to start tapering and get damn serious about it. :smart:

I mean this and I'm not one to judge or shame. This isn't about that. :lolno:

You say you have a problem and you do. Most detox/rehabs do not manage sub detox well.

So....tell me what Kaiser is supposed to do for you and let's find out if it's the right place for you....is it a rehab? Out patient only? Detox only?

You can be successful....but baby....educating yourself about this shit is paramount! 8-)

So, now that I've got your attention..... :kiss: we can address your biggest fear....how to stop taking the whole bottle at once. :nono: :lol: 8-)

Do you have a bank?
Do you have someone to hold your pills?
Do you have a pillbox?

You do have time to do a taper before you go somewhere for good rehab/detox. Like you said....it's a matter of not taking too much. :suicide:

I hope I haven't overwhelmed you....that is not my intention. :banghead: :banghead:

Btw, I hope you don't mind bad language because fuck is my favorite word! Cheeps :boobshake: :cheers: :banana:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Sat May 21, 2016 6:29 pm

thanks for replies! I am having a hard time navigating this forum -- can't even find out how to respond to a PM from cheeps, and, no, I do NOT have Alzheimers!

Kaiser I am using just to get a prescription so I am not stuck out there with nothing. I will just go there to see the doc and go through the paces, whatever I need to do to get a script so I can get out of here. Suddenly I seem to have shifted and feel okay with having the pills around, as they now make me very ill (stomach issues) when I take them, so I want OFF ASAP! Honestly, this morning I took one 4 (I thought I was down to 4 but may try and take 2 for 4 days and then jump, IDK), and just take a sliver if needed. I have been on such a little amount of time, that may work, but I can gauge my reaction pretty well by my physical symptoms as I had to quit eating five days ago as I got severely constipated from taking kratom three days in a row and just cannot tolerate that.

I buy off the street until I can actually GET to Kaiser, and haven't gone far enough to get a monthly script (which I don't think I will be doing, I'll just get as much as humanly possible to jump). This connection lives 10 minutes' walking distance from me, which has been a bummer. He also has clonopin, which has been a bummer but I am very careful with.

BTW, cheeps, I don't mind the word fuck at all! I grew up with the hippies.

I realized when I started thinking about suicide constantly I had bottomed out and had to do the responsible thing and get out of this addiction, no matter what it took. I have grown children that would deeply suffer as a result of that, and have to strictly monitor those thoughts by taking required action: STOPPING SUBS.

Again, thank you all. Hopefully next time I will have found out how to navigate better here and can respond to each post and PMS. Until then, it's a bit of a bummer and I feel stupid, but hey, what else is new?
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Sat May 21, 2016 6:35 pm

I have taken subs daily "only" for the past 14 days, for 12 days at 16 mg a day, then one day 8 mg., one day 6, two days 4, which made me very ill (sick to my stomach). Before that I was chippying around with it, alternating between 100 mg. methadone (not on a daily basis), then a few days' Subs, then a break for a few days, a few days of clonopin, maybe a day of loperamide, but my habit from 2010 has grown from taking something every day (in varying strengths and varieties, even if just loperamid and kratom), though sometimes nothing at all (rare).

The fact that I had intolerable intestinal issues after taking the subs this a.m. has been a game-changer -- not willing to go through that for that long.

You all are angels in my book. Thank you so much.

Will click "Submit" and hope this goes to the right forum. One comment: Subsux is an awesome sight, but the issues with navigating (even PM responses) can be insurmountable and I feel might be a turnoff to some people with limited navigational skills.
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby Subblind » Sat May 21, 2016 8:01 pm

You are detoxing off a shit load of methadone that's still in your system.you need to calm down and let cheeps help you.CHEEPS GET THE FUCK IN HERE QUICK!!!! Just take it easy,and no thoughts of offing yourself, that's NO FUCKING GOOD HERE....now go give the bottle to someone who can dish them out accordingly.these fucking pills last for 24-37 hours so you really don't NEED to keep eating them,the first step is wanting to fix this mess.but YOU have to want to.
Now just calm down and don't do anything rash,listen to these people they know wtf they're doing.god bless
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cheeps » Sat May 21, 2016 9:02 pm

Clueless.....I put all of your threads together here. It's not you....I moved them all to this one place!

When you say stomach issues....what do you mean?

If you can take 4mgs for two days...then two mgs a day until you stabilize. You won't stabilize your system u till a week has passed. Try very hard not to take more....

I'm concerned about blood pressure issues if you don't taper down lower and a bit slower than you may have done in the past.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby Eyedotz » Sat May 21, 2016 9:22 pm

Hi Clueless, I just wanted to say hey. I've been watching your thread but I wasn't sure how to respond....my wheelhouse is the LONG SLOW taper route after a maintenance period. That is my experience so I try to stick with what I know. Addiction fucking sucks...THAT we can all agree on.

Subblind is correct about the Methadone sticking in your system...I was on methadone for 6 years PRIOR to 13 years on subs, so yes...shit is strong. Sub SUCKS for methadone quick tapering. I tried the exact thing prior to starting a sub maintenance regimen. I did a 2 week quick taper after methadone detox was making me consider suicide. I went cold turkey off of 40mg of methadone and lasted 3 weeks...I crawled to an addiction hospital for assistance. The sub quick taper worked great for the first week....until I had to taper as instructed. After taper concluded, I was RIGHT back to square one. Sick as a fucking dog and wanted to jump off a bridge. I ended up staying on Sub.

Staying on sub for longer period is not bad. It will stabilize your addiction and stop the roller coaster you seem to be on with benzos, kratom, subs, methadone. You really need to stabilize.....also curious about stomach issues that sub is causing you. Usually it's constipation based issues....

Stick around and we'll try to help you.
Nice to meet you,
~dotz
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JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Sat May 21, 2016 9:35 pm

Eyedotz wrote:Hi Clueless, I just wanted to say hey. I've been watching your thread but I wasn't sure how to respond....my wheelhouse is the LONG SLOW taper route after a maintenance period. That is my experience so I try to stick with what I know. Addiction fucking sucks...THAT we can all agree on.

Subblind is correct about the Methadone sticking in your system...I was on methadone for 6 years PRIOR to 13 years on subs, so yes...shit is strong. Sub SUCKS for methadone quick tapering. I tried the exact thing prior to starting a sub maintenance regimen. I did a 2 week quick taper after methadone detox was making me consider suicide. I went cold turkey off of 40mg of methadone and lasted 3 weeks...I crawled to an addiction hospital for assistance. The sub quick taper worked great for the first week....until I had to taper as instructed. After taper concluded, I was RIGHT back to square one. Sick as a fucking dog and wanted to jump off a bridge. I ended up staying on Sub.

Staying on sub for longer period is not bad. It will stabilize your addiction and stop the roller coaster you seem to be on with benzos, kratom, subs, methadone. You really need to stabilize.....also curious about stomach issues that sub is causing you. Usually it's constipation based issues....


Stick around and we'll try to help you.
Nice to meet you,
~dotz


I think the stomach issues are a result of not having eaten for five days because after I took the kratom I was so constipated that I didn't want to be in a horrible situation of having a huge terd that wouldn't come out (been there before and it was a nightmare).

I'm considering cheeps suggestion of the shorter taper, or at least trying it until I get absolutely desperate, if I do. I may not. Fasting cures a whole lot of ills, I've found, and it may just do it here.

Thanks again for your loving compassion, and I enjoyed reading your post on your horrendous experience with methadone. Only someone who has been there can understand what is involved here.

Marilyn
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open response to cheep's PM

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Sat May 21, 2016 9:44 pm

cheep had asked me the following, and wanted to put it in here so you have the info:

<The only worry I have with you is your age and medical issues. We must get you on a stable and realistic taper so <that you won't get very sick and fail.

<Please tell me about any issues you may have. It matters when you finally get off. 8-)

I fortunately don't have any medical issues, although did have very high BP, I found out when I went to a detox place, which, over the course of being there, went down to much lower than normal. I had been taking lots of methadone when I went in.

So that's it, aside from muscle aches and pains.

I'm a very healthy 67-year-old: have great eating habits (though as of today, this is my 6th day of not eating due to constipation), exercise daily, do an hour of yoga a day, meditate when the Subs haven't destroyed that. So I've got a lot in my favor, thanks to the spirit watching over me.

So that is me.

Marilyn
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby Eyedotz » Sat May 21, 2016 9:55 pm

Side note: you know what helped me tremendously with constipation during methadone/sub? Go to Walmart in the laxative aisle and buy this shit (no pun intended) called 'equate fiber powder'. It is sugar free and flavor free. U mix a couple tablespoons in your morning coffee (or whatever!). It is in a white/green container. It was a godsend. This goes for ALL YOU TAPERERS OUT THERE! It's basically the cheapy version of benefiber! Has to be the flavor free version!
Eyedotz Spotify playlist (EDM Detox Mix)
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13 Year Sub survivor - Jumped at .03mg after 9 month taper from 4-6mg.
JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

Forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know before you learned it.
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Sun May 22, 2016 12:02 am

Eyedotz wrote:Side note: you know what helped me tremendously with constipation during methadone/sub? Go to Walmart in the laxative aisle and buy this shit (no pun intended) called 'equate fiber powder'. It is sugar free and flavor free. U mix a couple tablespoons in your morning coffee (or whatever!). It is in a white/green container. It was a godsend. This goes for ALL YOU TAPERERS OUT THERE! It's basically the cheapy version of benefiber! Has to be the flavor free version!


Thank you, Eyedotz.

Marilyn
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cheeps » Sun May 22, 2016 10:05 am

So Marilyn....what's the plan after you try to get off the sub? What will you do during the PAWS stage? Any thoughts on resources in real life?

You seem knowledgable about opiates but I'm not sure you are the same about what mentally happens after using LAO's, (long acting opiates.)
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Sun May 22, 2016 2:43 pm

cheeps wrote:So Marilyn....what's the plan after you try to get off the sub? What will you do during the PAWS stage? Any thoughts on resources in real life?

You seem knowledgable about opiates but I'm not sure you are the same about what mentally happens after using LAO's, (long acting opiates.)


Well, it's been a loooooong haul, and very painful all the way through (except when loaded), to get to this point. I have actually taken 2 mg. today and don't feel the pull to take any more.

Long-term plans: Taking the money I've saved from buying drugs and bouncing checks to do so and putting it into possibly buying a car, so I can get out and hit some sort of meetings, 12-step or otherwise, some kind of support group, getting my life back in order, taking charge of the things I can while I can so I don't overburden my children with "handling mom and her drug abuse."

Beyond that, I am just taking it as it comes. I have been through PAWS before and know how it can eat at you. Just have to keep standing at the gates of death and reminding myself that one step forward is a step towards a premature death that I don't want to inflict on anybody (I wouldn't care if it just impacted me; I don't want to hurt anybody else, particularly my kids).

I still need to get through the taper before I get to living with PAWs, so, Cheeps, my question: What do I do after 2 mg. (if I can hack it; may have to take 3 a time or two) for a week, which was your suggestion? Then my appt. with Kaiser is coming up so I can get just the one prescription I need to use them to finish the taper. I am following your suggestion of only doing 4 mg. for 2 days (already done) and now a week on 2 (first day today).

Thanks.

PS Practicing now dealing with real life, and realizing how much I was leaning on people to help me out! It is my RESPONSIBILITY to take care of the things I can for as long as I can and a travesty to do otherwise.

Marilyn
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cheeps » Sun May 22, 2016 4:58 pm

You just need to stay at two. There is no reason to take more except addict thinking.

One thing you can do is reading here in staying clean forum. Lots odd" of good ideas there.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: where is the best place to start here?

Postby cluelessinpacificnw » Sun May 22, 2016 7:57 pm

cheeps wrote:You just need to stay at two. There is no reason to take more except addict thinking.

One thing you can do is reading here in staying clean forum. Lots odd" of good ideas there.


I don't want to take more. I just want to get completely off. How long do I stay at 2? I was thinking not more than a week, then drop to one for a week, then half, then a quarter, then off. What do you think?

Marilyn
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