Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Sub Sucks and if you havent figured that out yet.. please read a few posts

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby INB » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:31 am

It's been six years for me and I am still not right....can't sleep well, or through the night.

Sub and klonopin did me in....forever, I think.
INB
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:24 am

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby CTCheryl » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:52 pm

Great posts you guys, thank you for them!!
CTCheryl
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1993
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:38 am

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Rst0818 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:21 pm

So I've been on Suboxone for 9 years. I honestly haven't given a ton of thought towards quitting, and even made peace with the fact that I may be on it for the rest of my life, until the last few days for what ever reason. I was only addicted to about 200mgs daily of OxyContin for a lil over 2 years before I started the subs, so my suboxone addiction is over 3 times as long as the whole reason why I started the subs. However, without the suboxone, my life would not be where it is today by a longshot. I'm sure I don't have to convince anyone of that, because it does work to stop the avalanche of what would've been to come. There's no way I would have the career, wife and 2 beautiful children, had I not discovered suboxone. Maybe I've been lucky, because I've received zero side effects, with the exception of the addiction, the entire 9 years. I'm 32, almost in the best shape of my life, never miss a single day of work and love my family as much as anyone else. The one downside I've came up with is the actual dependency and addiction, which is financially a non-factor, and especially considering the Oxy addictions price. My theory has always been this is nothing compared to major health risks and financial disaster I was in for over 2 years, and if it takes me depending on 4mg of suboxone a day to maintain my life as it is now, why would I ever consider stopping and putting myself through problems that do not exist now as it is. I don't buy into and medical or pharmaceutical bullshit, and all of this is me as a person, maintaining a healthy lifestyle that I would've never had without it. With all this being said, my 2 month taper, which I designed and decided on my own behalf started yesterday. I'm very open to the possibility of being completely independent of the suboxone in the future, but if in any way does that alter the lifestyle I lead today, and for the last 9 years, I will not hesitate to go back and never look at it as a failure. Success is the only thing I've been used to over these years, and I refuse to go backwards under any circumstances. I definitely appreciate this website and encourage everyone to look at both sides of the coin before making their decision in the path to recovery, but I cannot agree with such negativity towards suboxone considering my personal experience. Zero relapses in 9 years and a life I would've never had without it. Two beautful kids and my wife without it. A career I'm extremely proud of without it. Wish me luck with the tapering, but there will be no spilt milk if it doesn't as far as I'm concerned. I hope you don't delete my post and any feedback would be very much appreciated.
Rst0818
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby mano » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:16 pm

You are giving sub WAYYYYYY to much credit for your successful life, and quite honestly i have trouble believing you.

Do you really think it is not causing you any damage to your brain and internal organs? Tell me you havn;t had constipation? do yo0u know what constant constipation does to your bowels?

You are 32 years young and in good shape it sounds, so that accounts for much of your "health". Shit like this has a way of catching up on you. And really, all you did was switch your addiction from one opiate that was causing you trouble, to one you could tolerate. Basically every day of the past 9 years has been a relapse as far as I am concerned. 8 mg's of sub is considerably stronger than 200 mg of oxy too. i know it doesn;t feel like it because the euphoria isn't as noticible.

If you were to stop taking it today, it would probably take several days to feel any severe withdrawal, but then it would be brutal when it did hit.

And you could be the exception to the rule, but almost always sub, as well as all other opiates, quit working, and then what?

I would be wondering how much better your life could have been without it...Like if you had used it for a month or 2 and gotten clean, or gone to a rehab for 30 days and gotten clean.

anyways. good to hear from you and I'm glad you haven't had any issues yet. For someone like you I would recommend a super slow taper. Actually tapering to 4 mg a day is almost effortless for most people, but once you gte below 4 I would say, in your case, maybe reduce by 1/4 mg every week or 2.

Good luck and i think you know deep down that your free ride isn't going to last forever....or why would you even bother trying to get off it. And please don't expect this to be easy after 9 years.

Good luck!
User avatar
mano
Local Fixture
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Rst0818 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Fortunately for me, it doesn't matter who believes me or not. Trust me when I say, and I admit in my post and every day of my life, that I am an addict. Just to clear a few things up: I'm taking 4mgs a day ( 2mgs twice a day) not 8, and it's been pretty steady there for the past few years. Maybe it is somehow damaging my brain without my knowledge. The smell of gasoline, or paint thinners on a construction site do as well. I'm an electrician, and were around plenty of hazardous chemicals almost daily. Next, I wouldn't say I have "normal" bowel movements, but I go nearly every day, but I do stick to a pretty good diet so I'm sure that helps. I'm also gonna admit that I may or may not suggest Suboxone to someone. I really think every single person is different. I also admitted that I do believe 4mg of suboxone a day is probably more than "ONLY" (as I said) 200mgs of OxyContin a day. I think it's very cool to have a website like this for those to have a platform that they don't have because of the praise Suboxone may get on other sites, not allowing you to speak your opinion freely without being dismissed or told you are wrong in a way that doesn't make you feel welcome. However, don't you think you're being the same way on the flip side of those websites? To tell me you think I'm lying and dismiss any possibility of me actually succeeding just because of your beliefs? Sounds to me that's why this website was created, so both sides can be equally heard without judgement. I'm open to all possibilities and hopefully I do taper off successfully. I would say I'm definitely on that path as we speak (this is only day 3 tho), but I may be called a liar and what good would that do anyone? It was stated ALL stories were welcome, no matter what the opinion. Maybe my posts won't be deleted, but my story had been dismissed and marked as not believed. Lucky for me, my family and myself are they only ones that need convincing for me to be happy. 4mgs a day is still definitely a higher dose compared to where I need to be to stop, but it's clearly much different than 8mgs. I would love to come on here and document my taper, mainly for my own mental state during the process, but if it doesn't work, I will still not consider it a failure and I suppose I'll document it somewhere where I'm believed and more welcome. I do appreciate your honesty, but I don't appreciate the single minded way you look at this subject, which this site was created for to start. More advice and input is still very welcome. This is for me and me alone to take what I can out of. Thanks for not deleting me again, but you did a terrible job of not making me feel welcome.
Rst0818
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Rst0818 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:49 pm

Let me also quickly add that wouldn't it be something if in a year or so, I read what I posted and change my opinion because of my hopeful experience to come? Doesn't sound to me like I'll even get the chance on here considering the very first post following mine was exactly what made you get off the other sites and onto this one. What a shame.
Rst0818
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Rst0818 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:58 pm

Sorry but I just read the previous post again and also noticed how it's almost as if I'm being scared into not getting off at all. I didn't think that was gonna happen, and was frankly expecting the opposite, with greater words of encouragement. I'll have to taper at my own pace, considering the timeframe of my addiction, and I have absolutely nothing to lose by trying, and even if it does take longer than expected, the goal will hopefully still be eventually met. What a bad start to something I was hoping to help me through the process.
Rst0818
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby AVinLo » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:39 pm

Rst0818 wrote:Sorry but I just read the previous post again and also noticed how it's almost as if I'm being scared into not getting off at all. I didn't think that was gonna happen, and was frankly expecting the opposite, with greater words of encouragement. I'll have to taper at my own pace, considering the timeframe of my addiction, and I have absolutely nothing to lose by trying, and even if it does take longer than expected, the goal will hopefully still be eventually met. What a bad start to something I was hoping to help me through the process.


Hey man, don't let anyone bring you down or discourage your efforts to taper and get off Sub's. The sentiment around here definitely leans to the more negative side of Suboxone/Subutex....In case you haven't figured it out already. You probably won't get ANY positives to sub's at all around here because some people, myself included, don't have anything good to say about how sub's eventually makes most of us feel on a dosage under 4-6 mg......emotionally numb, lack of motivation, etc. Basically a failure in the executive functioning part of the brain.

For me, I need a place like this that demonizes sub's in order to crush any hope that Suboxone has anything positive to offer other than misery. If I were anywhere else where subs were viewed in any positive fashion then that would probably prolong my misery. I hate the fact I'm a slave to a drug and need those chains to be broken because unlike many others here I've only been on Suboxone for 1 year and never above 12mg. Been averaging dropping my dosage 2 mg per month.....average. Hopefully it won't take me 6 months to begin finding myself and what "normal" used to feel like.

Rst0818, I think you're one of the lucky one's that have NEVER lost that "magic" that Suboxone/Subutex gave us when we first started using it. But, for 95% of us, that magic quickly fades overtime (for me it was about 6 months) and left us feeling empty, un-empathetic, malaised and a shell of our former selves. Much more severe than other opiates did. This is how I see the meaning of this forum and what I see in the misery of the people who give their testimony here. Personally I wish God or whoever our maker is never made the 'Papaver Somniferum' plant, the parent of ALL opiates.
"Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or even a year, but ,eventually, it WILL subside. And, something else will take it's place. If I quit however....it will last forever!"

Tramadol- 2006 to 2011♢Vicodin to Oxy's- 2011 to 2013♢Suboxone- 2013 to 2014♢Quit 3 mg Suboxone on 8/26/14
User avatar
AVinLo
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:18 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Rst0818 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:23 pm

That's more like it. That's what I want to hear. Real feelings ppl have about their own personal experience! Not that my story is bullshit! I started my own topic- suboxone addict and advocate hoping to be proven wrong- and I'm going to document the entire process daily. I don't want to see any positive remarks about suboxone from anyone else, because why the fuck would anyone want to read how great something is while attempting to get off it?? I had to start somewhere and I can't just make up some lame bullshit experiences just because that's what everyone else is doing! Understand? This is my way of mentally coping during the process and my story is my story, which I can't help. Maybe one day I'll look back and wonder what the fuck I'm thinking and thought for 9 years, but for now, this is my experience and the whole purpose of me being on this site is to document my taper and see where my point of view leads to in the future. I've been at 4mg, 2mg twice a day for the last few years and with my scheduled, in 3 months, I'll either be happy and off subs, happy and still on subs, or share the same opinions as most ppl here.
Rst0818
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby mano » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:37 pm

Oh Jesus :suicide: Maybe you are at the wrong site dude. I have a tendency to believe people are trying to blow smoke up my ass when they come to a site called sub sux and they start telling me wonderful the drug really is, and how it has made their world a better, most wonderful magical place, almost making it sound like you owe all your life's success to the wonder drug suboxone.

Your first post you tag onto the owner of the sites thread titled "sub is evil shit"

Nooooo, you couldn't possibly be a troll :yawn:

And yea, I still don't believe you :lol: But shhhesh, don't get your panties in a wad. You obviously don;t believe all that nonsense yourself or you wouldn't be here....Unless maybe you are a troll....which is what I think you might be. Yep, a lying troll.

Maybe you she start by reading this, because you sure sound pro maintenance to me :


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42


If you are a pro-maintenance drug advocate, then you are at the wrong site! People make a decision to stop maintenance, or are stuck on maintenance and we try to support them in that decision and help people get off these drugs. If maintenance is still working for you, and you have no intentions of ever stopping; or if you are a Methadone or Buprenorphine (Suboxone) Advocate then......YOU ARE AT THE WRONG SITE!!
User avatar
mano
Local Fixture
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Rst0818 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:25 am

Lying trolls have feelings too, ya know!!!! The good news is I can read and understand opinions from both sides. I typed in "support sites to help suboxone detox", and this is what came up, and like I said for the 4th time now, why the fuck would I want to read, post, whatever, on a site that has only great things said about the drug while I'm in the process of stopping? It would only encourage me to delay, or rethink it, not what I decided. The reason I posted on this thread it pretty simple.....it's the first topic on the page and it took a lil but to get the hang of the website. I'll just stick to the topic I created to document this whole thing, so please be sure to post whatever it is you want on there. I mentioned the name of it in my last post on tgis thread, so if you you would have actually read it, rather than whatever it was you did, you would know the deal and the name of it.
Rst0818
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby HugitoutB » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:17 am

I did my switch from Suboxone to vicodin about 6 weeks ago or so when I posted here. It took a lot of Vicodin to counter the subs for a while and it was a good 90 mg's a day to keep me moving and productive. The two final days before I went to rapid detox, I went down to 5 mg's just for the hope to make it faster even though it might be harder. I suffered a lot those two days, but f it.

I did the rapid detox program at the C.I. in Richmond. Wed/Thurs/Friday. Came home friday. Do I think it's overpriced? Yeah sort of?, but they have their shit down real real well. I was able to bear Wednesday and slept most of the time. Thursday I was a little better and even did a little work on the laptop from my hotel room (it's outpatient). Friday is the long day where they just use an IV to put vitamins into you and Nalexene (sp) which kicks the ass of the vicodin out of your system. Then a shot of Naltrexone for safe keeping, then a 30 day time release Naltrexone shot. I go back and get a shot every month for about 6-12 months. I'm attending my first NA meeting this week and seeing a therapist (I have an addictive personality altogether).

I got to admit, I felt not bad on Saturday. Groggy and tired. Sleeping is difficult at night, but I nap a lot during the day. I was really able to get out today though and made it to Petco for salt and Home Depot for a saddleback (I have a 180 gallon saltwater tank. It's my sanctum). Every time I take a nap, I feel stronger.

I just want to write my experience and I can go into much more detail if anybody wanted me to on a new thread. What I think is important to note is how badly suboxone numbs your mind and emotions. The constipation is one thing and I had only a few problems, but I'm 4 days clean and today I seriously was watching The Sandlot and I started crying at the end. In a way, it felt sooooo goood. It was nuts, but not really. I was feeling things. I'm like a 6'4 280lb dude and I'm crying at The Sandlot..... lol, if that's not evidence of emotional numbing for three years, then I give up trying to convince anybody.

All that happened with Suboxone was that I traded one addiction in for another. I wasn't dealing with any of my issues. It was "okay" because it was legal and covered by insurance, but it was bullshit. It was a lie. I just listened to the sub doctor and that was it for 14 months (while I was on sub). Utter horseshit. There was nothing wrong with me except I didn't want to go through withdrawals and I had some minor problems I didn't want to deal with. Not even anything big. To hear poeople being on suboxone for more than a month or so is flippin scary. I tried the taper and it was a mess below 4mg's. I have a bunch of kids, wife, business, other things. Being on suboxone is just delaying the inevitable. I'm not here to rip anyone, but it's fake. Come with me and experience life and feel life. :deadhorse:
HugitoutB
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:31 am

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby HugitoutB » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:51 am

Today marks day 14 clean and sober. I actually feel really well.

I'll try to write some more details of my experience, but the best decision I made during this was to go back on Vicodin for a month from subsuxone. The vicodin didn't work great, but it got me by, so i could detox. I did the rapid detox and it took three days. I was sedated, but I was okay to go out to dinner with my wife and only the first night I stayed in (granted we only went to Dickie's BBQ, but still I went out). I did Wed/Thur/Fri, then got home. I was wiped out. On Saturday I slept a ton, but I didn't feel bad. No desire for any pill except the stuff they give you to handle some symptons.

After 2 weeks, I now only take 1 Valium a day, which I'm cutting to a half today and 1 clonodine. I must say that exercising and sweating sped up my recovery. It had to have. I walked the dog for 2 miles, went in and wrestled, went to class (brazilian jiu jitsu brown belt), and I took some ibuprofin after it and a cool shower. I was fine.

The first 4-5 days after the 3 day detox, I was really weak. I swear, every time I would stand up, I would look forward to sitting back down. I was still taking the Olanzapine 10mg to help with sleep. Problem was the sedating factor carried to the next day. ALL DAY. I flushed them and threw the bottle away. That stuff is just really long lasting. I'm sure after a few more days, it wouldn't have had as much of an effect, but i wanted to smell the air. Not sit in a chair. I was back at work on Monday, no problem btw. I gotta say, the Coleman joint has it to a science. You do need to communicate your symptons to them clearly and they will take care of it.

Also, for dudes, beware. Our emotions have been held hostage by sub and opiates. I've cried about 6 times in the last 2 weeks. Sometimes out of the blue, but it's because I'm happy I beat this down and will continue to fight to never let it happen again. I was my kids play and I just cried. That one was guilt, because I wasn't sober when my two year old was born and this is the first two weeks I've been with him and I'm clear-minded. I'm incredibly lucky my wife stuck by my side, close friends, and family. It's okay to lean on someone now and then. Don't make you a weak person. We're humans. I cried when I heard "Lean on Me" being sung by my wife (a singer, mom, writer, etc etc etc). Here's my mantra for today my friends. Lean on me. If you are struggling with this, find someone, anybody, you can lean on. Through the power of two or more, we can do more. You have to want to do it though.

http://youtu.be/QPoTGyWT0Cg
HugitoutB
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:31 am

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby duckman0605 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:55 pm

Rst0818 I'm happy for you and glad things are going good. I've been on suboxone for 4 and a half years. I'd stay on it longer too, if it were helping. It worked great for the 1st 3 years but then it turned on me. To make a long story short, I'm in withdrawal regardless of my dose. I want off this stuff so badly.
I'll be at work stocking shelves and break out in a cold sweat with goosebumps and feeling horrible. This started about 9 months ago. I've upped my dose and it doesn't help. The only solution is to get off of it. Tomorrow I'll start weaning off and do it quickly. I want my personality back ! I've been in a fog for almost 5 years.
duckman0605
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:40 am

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Zepol.doc » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:45 pm

So I posted. And now learning. This is such lovely information. Thank you people. Sincerely I say. If my post could be read I could use the advice. I just started this site, and would have replied here but didn't realize how till just now. I'll be on this site for awhile. The post explains details. Once more you all are highly educated in a matter hidden by the people "out there" in the cold. Thank you for the warm up, if truth be the flame.
To believe your own thought, to believe that what is true for you In your private heart is true for all men,---that is genius.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Zepol.doc
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Harrahs2014 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:08 pm

Iv'e been off of that crazy bullshit joke of a a drug and the withdrawals were absolutely brutal. Took me over a month just to eliminate the physical aspect but than mentally was fucking insane and I hate that doctors actually prescribe this to patients, because he makes you content with everything, shielding you from living normally - yet is masked as a drug that can be taken for the rest of your life :o HORSE SHIT>

I know so many people who actually think they are clean being on this LOL and than judge other people, on the extent of their using.
I literally mantion to them that "DUDEEEEEEEE you take 16 mg of this drug a day to the point at which if you dont your miserable - so where the hell is the truth or resolve to your problems with this - its just masking one drug and putting you on another one fattening the pocket books of doctors too lazy to actually help:


Have anyone one of you guys experienced shit like this or can tell me some of the lomg term effects so I can ether my friend and drive him into the middle of the forest and just beat his ass till he gets that I am doing this for his own good - GIVE ME A SCARY FACT THAT WILL OPEN HIS EYES
Harrahs2014
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:59 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby cheeps » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:55 pm

His pecker will dwindle and his hair will fall out. He will become an emotional zombie. OK, that's three that should scare him but no one gives a shit until it happens.

The "honeymoon" phase kills them all. Drs want them on 12-32mgs. The ceiling for sub is 8 mgs....most peeps love being on 2mgs. It brings them out of the fog.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
User avatar
cheeps
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 9259
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby starting_over » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:39 pm

Hi there! I am new here, after just being fucking ATTACKED at another site for referring to my current suboxone situation as being "hooked" on it! A so-called "Moderator" jumped on it and started to refute that specific word from the get go. All I said was I wanted to be off sub and went back to the site for support, and they honed in on the word "hooked" and said it would send the message to someone wanting to get on sub that sub is the same as using opiates, and that person would eventually stay using, OD, and die!!! Serious shit! My thread turned into a freakin shit show, and I am so glad I have found a site that is honest, and not whoring for the pharmaceutical companies. I know this is hard to believe, but the moderator that had a problem with my post has been, and is still, actively using sub w/ out any intention of getting off soon. Hmmmmmm . . . I wonder why she's so hostile?

Anyway, so glad I found a site that is REAL, and that I can be honest here. I have been back on sub now for about a year, after I jumped, had surgery, then got hooked on painkillers and subsequently back on sub. I am at about 1mg per day, and want to start a taper, then jump. Any feedback, support, sharing experiences, etc, is very much invited! Thanks, and have a good one!
User avatar
starting_over
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:52 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby subster58 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:19 pm

over.I too was kicked off the site. Fuck em/ Sub is evil shit. I was on 32mg from a money ass doc. Only by venting on this site and getting such support was I able to get off subs. I had a wicked fucked up detox. No one should ever be put on 32mg of subs.
Listen to cheeps, she'll give you a good regim to get you off the subsucker from hell if you really want off.
Peace
Tia
subsucker free 4-30-12
One Hour at a time
subster58
 
Posts: 2169
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:26 pm

Re: Sub is evil shit! and 3 questions answered

Postby Lost Lady » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:35 pm

I have only been on Subs 12 days. I asked my shrink to help me through withdrawals from Percocet and he did this. I don't feel like me anymore. I've been on 12mg for 12 days. Some days I only took 6mg Some days I only took 8mg. I only took 4 today. Please tell me that at twelve days in I can successfully jump off. I have mental illness to start with and this shit is NOT for me. Should I just jump and not look back or quickly lower the dose. I'm terrified. I knew this seemed wrong, I knew I just needed to go through opiate withdrawals. Someone please help. I'm a 40 year old mom of a 5 year old. Battled depression, anxiety, PTSD, OCD my whole life and I was a maintaining great. Hurt my back been on per share 2 years needed help getting off and bam they guinea pigged me. Please help. Thanks.
Sub free since August 23, 2015...."Remember, if you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change. The devil changes you" Johnny California 8MM
User avatar
Lost Lady
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:29 pm
Location: Virginia USA

PreviousNext

Return to Sub Sux

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest

cron