Jumping on 7/6/17

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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Psilver063 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:37 am

I'm still taking .05 clonidine and 300mg gaba at night for sleep. I really think the clonidine is the root of my daytime issues but who knows. Can't take that crap during the day or I'll be asleep. The klonopin I still have and there are occasions where i take it at night but that's really it. Sleep, with the 2 meds I got 7hrs last night, not to bad. I'm coaching T Ball so that's my cardio for the week and trust me I sweat more doing that then running 2 miles. I'm lifting 3x per week and those seem to be my best days. Well the T Ball days are good which is 2 x a week but that is in the evening. I want to feel good day and that's the new goal. 60 days and feel good during the day. Going to have to stop all meds here soon just to be done with them. Not for any particular reason. Just to experiment to see if they are causing my daily symptoms.
OFF SUBOXONE SINCE 7/6/17. Tapered over 3.5 years from 8mg to .6mg and jumped.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Lucy » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:32 am

Glad you're still posting. It's a very long time since I took clonidine but I remember it wiping me out and falling asleep on it during the day while in detox. So it's powerful stuff and according to google the half life is 12 - 16 hours. Gabapentin has a much shorter half life of 5 - 7 hours. So your suspicions about the clonidine are well founded. Hope you don't get any increase in restlessness when you try cutting it out.
Reducing from 32mg. Dropped from 26mg to 16mg 8th July 2017. August 1st 12mg.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:58 pm

I took clonidine the other night bc I just couldn't sleep without it and I noticed the next day that my usual energy was completely gone, all my muscular strength was gone, but the day would have been worse on no sleep so 6 of this or half of dozen of that. Good to hear from you man, the next 30 days will be much easier and by day 60 you will feel pretty much back to normal barring a few small things that take longer to return, like some anxiety but I'm in a great place and I'm pretty sure you will be too. I remember feeling great around day 20, then I hit a big lull from days 30-45, then it got a lot better. You're doing everything perfectly brotha, stay on it and just keep piling that time and distance up.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby cheeps » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:20 pm

Psilver063 wrote:Day 30 no subs. Still dealing with restlessness during the day and night. Freaking Poison shit medicine




Here's your thirty day naner from me! Congrats and follow sub7 to the FUCK YOU SUB hall of fame! :banana:
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby nomojo3479 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:39 am

Congrats on 30 days.. bad ass for sure
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Psilver063 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:47 am

This isn't to scare anyone but how can I be over 30 days clean and feel worse the past 6 days then I did the 20 before that. I'm sleeping with the help of clonidine and like .25 kpin. But during the day the past week I just want to draw all the blood from my body, replace it and peel my skin off. Legs going fucking bonkers during the day, motivation went from good to bad, depression went from gone to present, hell yesterday I didn't even shower just sat around. Couldn't convince myself to do anything else. I feel unchallenged and bored at work which has always been a lingering thing and maybe isn't new but it makes shit much harder and making any changes right now isn't an option to me 1) because I believe part of the feeling is due to the detox and sub use to begin with and 2) because I really enjoy the industry I work in. So idk if the physical is fucking with my mental state or the mental is driving the physcial or both. Maybe it's the meds I'm taking at night fucking with it all. This blows. Where does one go to remove acid blood and skin? Feel like I'm in chemotherapy (no offense to anyone who has been through it). I really am just using as an analogy and not meaning any disrespect.
OFF SUBOXONE SINCE 7/6/17. Tapered over 3.5 years from 8mg to .6mg and jumped.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby freeagain » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:32 am

PSilver063

I know this time can be extremely frustrating given the roller coaster ride. One minute you feel good, the next your depressed, then your legs hurt, a moment of hope, depression, anxiety and so on... The early stages of coming off this poison is filled with up's & downs and uncertainties...

One thing is for sure. You are in an "elite club" of some of the lucky ones who decide their ready for something better.

(many don't make it & just die off a long slow death)

You are ready to clean the slate & open yourself up to some new possibilities of living a happy & fulfilling life.

The only prerequisite is you have to somehow learn to normalize whats going on as a necessary stage (w/no time limits) to enable you to the next step. Its setting your new foundation. If you can hang with this, you can do anything.

If getting of this poison were easy to do, your mind would keep this way of life as an option when life gets tough again. (& it will)

I wish you all the best & remember you are a fucking WARRIOR choosing this new path..

You can do it!


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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:50 pm

PSilver, don't make any changes. Your acid blood, restless legs, and no motivation are all part of it. You go from coasting to stand-still for days/weeks at a time. What basically no1 wants to tell u, or me for that matter is that it's a shit-show for a little while here. The highs are high and the lows are low but it gets better week by week. Hang in there. You'll be coasting again in no time.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Psilver063 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:13 pm

So LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone). It's my newest experiment. My dr was concerned how hard I slipped the past 7 days from being highly motivated and energized to less than zero. Started it today. So far, so good. That's all I'm going to say. Hopefully it will allow natural production to increase and get things reworked and restructured. This is just a 4-8 week test. So we will see. I'll keep you updated. If you haven't heard of it let me know.
OFF SUBOXONE SINCE 7/6/17. Tapered over 3.5 years from 8mg to .6mg and jumped.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:49 pm

Hey bro, glad you're feeling a better. Can you explain the naltrexone a little bit more? Shouldn't your receptors be wiped clean by 30 days where you don't have any opiate to block anyway? I'm not very familiar with LDN...
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby cheeps » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:07 pm

Psilver.....this is all very normal as it takes the brain a damn good while to heal. You will continue the rollercoaster ride for a couple more months, the mental being the biggest challenge. Your amygdala is in a state of flux, your receptors are haggard from looking for dope, your guts are fluffy, and you have no desire to do anything but pick your nose. :thumbdown: :mrgreen: This damn shit sucks. :banghead: the worst part about it is.....this is sorta a plateau time in between the hills. It's like one of those bad boring westerns where the sceneries are in black and white....and it's dusty as fuck. You cannot find the remote. But worse.....you don't care and you watch tumbleweeds blow against cardboard houses.

You will get thru this, accept that time is the healer. Exercise produces some result but not as much as it did. You just need one of those self ass kicking contraptions and a calendar to X off the days. Take each day as it is and know that better days are ahead. :cheers:
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Psilver063 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:56 am

What I've gathered on LDN is that it blocks your receptor sites from uptaking your bodies natural endorphins and dopamine. My theory is that your receptors are so use to taking the outside chemical that once you stop giving it that it soaks up any natural endorphins or dopamine you have. But there are other areas of the body that require these chemicals as well and with the receptors blocked they get to use some (not all). That's my theory. I don't know enough about cellular biology to really hammer that nail home though. It is low dose so it only does this for a short period that's why you dose daily. The end result is that your body produces your natural endorphins and dopamine and actually begins to produce a little more. So this is like a short term thing to get your natural levels back up. Then you stop taking it. Side effects are none so far that I can tell and everything I have read states you wouldn't be able to really tell once you stop since your system is back up and running. It's really an interesting concept. Boosts immune system as well so that's a bonus. Like I said I don't have the answers but going on an ssri is not something I want to do, being on clonidine is not something I want to be on any longer and I nixed the benzo completely few days ago (flushed them bitches). Sleep is a bitch took me 15hrs to get 5hrs. And that was with clonidine and Benadryl. I'll tell you that the LDN seems to help the restless feeling, kinda weird just makes it go away. And there are no cravings although there never really were cravings. So idk can't hurt to try something. At least my Dr is trying to help me and not just letting me suffer. That's the important thing here to me at least.
OFF SUBOXONE SINCE 7/6/17. Tapered over 3.5 years from 8mg to .6mg and jumped.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:15 pm

hey man, if it helps it helps, simple as that. good to hear ur doing better. I don't blame you for not wanting to be on ssris, clonidine or benzos. Doctors know more than we do, it's just how they use (or not use) that knowledge that usually gets us, sounds like you know what you're doing. Keep us updated on how its going.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby DietDoc » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:42 am

Here's an excellent overview of the mechanism of LDN. There is also a pretty famous book called 'The LDN Book' if you want to become an expert.

https://www.ldnresearchtrust.org/conten ... -chopra-md

LDN is all about down regulation of neurotransmitters and pro-inflammatory and neurotoxic substances, mostly at the glia cells in the spinal chord (microgial and astrocyte cells). It's use has nothing to do with opiate receptors or up regulating endorphins.

Whom ever your doctor is, he or she is very current. This is definitely not first-line, mainstream medicine. A bit more on the experimental side, but there are some relevant studies.

I hope it helps you. I was checking in hoping to see you're doing well and was sad to read you're struggling.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Psilver063 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:39 am

So being 5 days removed from gabapemtin after 1mo use at just 300mg in evening and 4 days removed from klonopin at 1mo use at .5mg at night. Life sucks at the moment. 1mo use and it grabbed ahold of my CNS like it owned it. Sleep sucks totally! Not 1 ounce of deep sleep just a bunch of small cat naps. Spacey as hell feeling during the day. Like weird weird weird. But had to stop becusse being on any of that for over a month could have been pretty disastrous. Anyway I was wondering if I should have allowed for a bigger span between stopping gaba and stopping klonopin. Maybe stopped the klonopin first then waited 1 week to stop the gaba. Who knows. I know this is tough! I'm glad I am strong becusse it takes a damn gladiator to do this.
OFF SUBOXONE SINCE 7/6/17. Tapered over 3.5 years from 8mg to .6mg and jumped.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby cheeps » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:05 pm

Psilver063 wrote:So being 5 days removed from gabapemtin after 1mo use at just 300mg in evening and 4 days removed from klonopin at 1mo use at .5mg at night. Life sucks at the moment. 1mo use and it grabbed ahold of my CNS like it owned it. Sleep sucks totally! Not 1 ounce of deep sleep just a bunch of small cat naps. Spacey as hell feeling during the day. Like weird weird weird. But had to stop becusse being on any of that for over a month could have been pretty disastrous. Anyway I was wondering if I should have allowed for a bigger span between stopping gaba and stopping klonopin. Maybe stopped the klonopin first then waited 1 week to stop the gaba. Who knows. I know this is tough! I'm glad I am strong becusse it takes a damn gladiator to do this.


However you did it, would have done it, wanted to do it.....doesn't matter anymore....you brain and body said get off....you listened and you fucking DID it!! That is quite the accomplishment!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

No one gets off Scot free....all you can do is mitigate and you did it. Now....for the next few months when anything goes wrong or gets fucked up....you can blame it on normal sub detox! :gaah: :mrgreen:

Psilver....do not make any big purchases, any other monetary desicions, or large changes to your professional or personal life. Coast on anything that comes up. When I did my last detox....I got crazy on music, saw a banner for a Bruno mars concert and bought two expensive tickets.... :gaah: :gaah: :gaah: What the FUCK :wtf: :wtf: was I thinking??? :ogeez: :rofl:

Watch what you click and what you say. :nono: :spank: :mrgreen:
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby DietDoc » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:27 pm

If you took klonopin for 30 consecutive days and stopped suddenly you would feel like you didn't belong on earth, totally depersonalized. Add other neurological active agents to that and you will be in a world of shit Joker. I'm surprised you can think at all. Brutal way to go dude...but if you can do it more power to you.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 9+ years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Tapering @ < .5 mg/d
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Psilver063 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:32 am

Yes it was 30 consecutive days but only at .5mg and only at night. Was suppose to take more but that shit put me on my ass. Anyway symptoms seem to be calming down a little bit. Not so shaky and foggy. Sleep is still tough but better. I really feel the gabapemtin was more of a factor on me than the kpin but who knows.
OFF SUBOXONE SINCE 7/6/17. Tapered over 3.5 years from 8mg to .6mg and jumped.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Lucy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:59 am

Hey, Psilver. So sorry to read that you hit such a bad patch after everything going so well. Sounds like the LDN was a great idea and you've got yourself a good doctor there. I've been on 0.5 klonopin for quite a while and I'm pretty sure (as DietDoc said) that even after only 30 days on it you would definitely feel unwell if you just stopped cold. I really hope you get back to that great place you were in very soon. Keep us posted.
Reducing from 32mg. Dropped from 26mg to 16mg 8th July 2017. August 1st 12mg.
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Re: Jumping on 7/6/17

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:41 am

Hows it going PSilver?
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