Low T, I merged the threads

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Low T, I merged the threads

Postby cheeps » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:09 pm

Most of our discussions on this subject are buried in threads, DD, mojo, rascal and others have talked about it.

Here is your thread to ask questions and post experiences.



I merged sub4sevens thread to this one
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby nomojo3479 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:23 am

Ok...ok.. ok.., so I don’t have any lab tests to prove it but I’m 99%sure I developed low test from being on sub for several years... .. so in my infinite wisdom I decided to order some black market testosterone from Latvia. I spent 7 more years taking sub daily and 350mgs of test cypionate every 7 days.
3 months ago I stopped taking test... it took a few months but my natural test production has returned despite still being on some sub .6 mg a day.. hoping once I get off sub altogether to get some blood work done to check where my test levels are currently at.
I was thinking the other day, I probably won’t ever go back to anabolic steroid use... I just feel over it.. I don’t care about being yoked up and hyper aggressive anymore.
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby SubJumpa » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:45 pm

Yah man same here no test results to confirm 100% but I’m convinced I had low testosterone on sub.. Most definitely had all the tell tailed signs- no sex drive, loss of muscle mass, losing hair and feeling lethargic- yup had them all... For me and this is just my experience but once I got under 1mg it began to improve little by little with each drop.. So now that I’ve been off sub for about 2 1/2 months... it’s like a switch got flipped or some shit!! For one been hitting the gym 4 days a week on average( same routine as on sub since 2mg mark) mostly weight training and noticing a much greater muscle mass improvement.. Also feel much less lethargic most days and don’t even get me started on sex drive... da wife says I’m like a damn 12 year old boy... Let’s just say I’ve had more sex in the last 2 1/2 months than I think I did my entire 5 years on da sub poison!! :thumbup:
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby cheeps » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:24 pm

Men are skeptical when I tell them to WATCH OUT for a constant hard on. Be sure to treat the wifeys gently....sometimes they to get used to it physically and she's probably wondering when she can sleep at night! :boobshake: :banana: :zzz:

Women also feel horny as hell during this time period....we get our T back too.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:32 am

Just found out I have no living sperm in my semen.. so that right there is a pretty good reason not to fuck with anabolic steroids.. I was hoping that sperm production had started back up by now.. I’m almost 4months off of test..
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:33 am

Maybe when After I jump off sub that mayb will start to come back.. idk
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby nomojo3479 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:34 am

More bummed than I thought I’d be.. I don’t wanna Tell the wife.. I feel like it can only be used against me as an insult...
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby cheeps » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:02 am

nomojo3479 wrote:More bummed than I thought I’d be.. I don’t wanna Tell the wife.. I feel like it can only be used against me as an insult...




Your wife is on my shit list.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
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Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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Re: Sub and low testosterone

Postby nomojo3479 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 am

Haha mine too, but what can ya do
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LOW T

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:16 am

ok so everyone tends to avoid this topic like the plague, kind of like the misery of PAWS. The grayness, depression, lack of interest or motivation (whatever you want to call it) of PAWS is undoubtedly related to low testosterone, I've done some research and suboxone is well known for causing low T over an extended time. I would guess this is why most people relapse at all, lack of vigor in life. It's not just about the sex drive, it's our overall energy system. It's our motivation, the spark that ignites us or gives us that look in our eye when we want something.

Doctors have found that with prolonged opiate use people just check out of their lives and are happy to just exist. Stimulating the pleasure parts of the brain with medication, the brain doesn't need to reinforce the pathways that create this stimulation on it's own (testosterone). Ever notice how addiction short-circuits the reward system? Like if you're doing a really difficult task that requires concentration and focus, you will automatically start craving whatever you are addicted to? This is because the brain is anticipating the reward and deciding it's easier to satisfy the addiction than to do the task. The hypothalamus controls the production of testosterone, the same part of the brain that controls temperature regulation, mood, sleep, thirst, hunger and sex drive (go figure). No testosterone = no motivation to move.

There are plenty of ways to naturally boost your testosterone, the simplest is to just go outside. Sunlight stimulates D3 which is directly related to how much testosterone produced. With just 10-20 minutes in the sun, the body can produce 10,000-20,000 units of D3. A normal D3 supplement only contains 2000 units, most of which are wasted bc we've been getting our D3 from sunlight for thousands of years, we've become pretty efficient at it. Extracting D3 from pills, not so much.

The second thing you can do, and everyone should do regardless of low T or not, is to eat more micronutrients from plants. This is the single most important thing you can do to change your life whether you're on suboxone or not. It sounds corny as I would much rather wake up eating bacon and eggs for breakfast, a steak and potato for dinner, and whatever is convenient between but this is just a disaster waiting to happen...Heart disease, Diabetes, Cancer, are mostly caused by our dietary choices. Not only is this the end result but what do you think happens to your body on the way there? We feel like death bc we're killing our body. The problem isn't even that we eat too much protein, fat or sugar...THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT WE DON'T EAT ENOUGH PLANTS TO SUPPLY THE NUTRIENTS NEEDED TO DEAL WITH ALL THE FAT, SUGAR AND STRESS. The body needs to detox, to do that correctly and support the growth and development of new cells IT NEEDS VITAMINS AND MINERALS, without them the body stops, slows down and we become more of a garbage dump than a processing center with a bunch of waste just backing up. No wonder we feel like shit and nothing works right.

The 3rd is exercise, but here's the thing. When you have no energy and feel like shit, going outside and exercising is like telling me to stop getting high. It's like "I hear you, but my body just doesn't agree for whatever reason". We all know what is like to KNOW you SHOULD be doing something, but just can't move right now, or don't want to or whatever... IF WE EAT MORE PLANTS, WE WILL HAVE MORE ENERGY TO DO THESE THINGS WITH NO EFFORT. Think of how nice it'll be psychologically when you don't have to force yourself to mechanically move every single body part.

SUBOXONE OR NOT, we can't just load our bodies with fat and sugar (disease causing nutrients) without the plant based foods (disease PREVENTING nutrients) and expect shit to go well. This applies to everyone.

Most of us know what we put in our body affects us which is why we get so much guilt from taking suboxone, because of how shitty we feel. The ironic part is we don't even think about the food which we shovel into our body all day everyday just to get "the energy" to get through it. If you ate nothing for 3 days, you'd have more energy than you do now, go figure that one out.

Now it's easy to say eat more fruits and vegetables, we've been told this since 1st grade. I'm not one of those people who are going to tell you to go full speed and cut out everything. And eating vegetables is a pain in the ass, so all you need to do is make and drink 1 glass of homemade fruit/veg juice a day to seriously improve health and energy levels so you can feel better allowing you to get outside more, have less pain so you can move around more and be in a better mood to WANT to participate in social engagements in addition to all the physiological benefits like better blood flow, increased strength and endurance, etc.

Get yourself a juicer (I know, I know...just try it for 1 week, it has to be easier than tapering lol, put in lettuce, kale, cucumber, apples, orange, limes, etc (whatever you want), drink 1 glass per day and wait 1 week. The reason you use a juicer is because you can condense a lot of vegetables into 1 glass of liquid, if you tried eating that amount of raw vegetables it will (a) be a huge plate of food and just wont be easy or enjoyable at all and (b) it's hard to digest that amount of solid food, liquids are always easier. You will use less energy to break it down and absorb it while getting much more energy from it. Win-win.

The further away I get from subs the more I realize there is nothing special about "drugs". The only reason there are no drugs in food is because we have distinguished them as different with different purposes, but they are plants no matter how you look at it, with compounds and molecules that are absorbed by and affect the body.
Just because we call something food, doesn't make it safe. Just because we call something a drug, doesn't make it unsafe. Everything we put in our body can either make us feel good or not RIGHT NOW and can make us feel good or not LATER. I'm learning to opt for the later. For most problems, the body has all it tools it needs to heal if you give it the same resources it's been getting for the last several thousand years.

We can either use our energy internally where the body needs to clean up the fucking mess we're causing on a daily basis or you can use your energy externally, where you get to move your body and feel good bc everything is running smooth. We can't have both. Find the balance of energy zapping and energy producing behaviors, that's the key to any health.

GIVE IT 1 WEEK, you have nothing to lose except everything you're trying to get rid of.
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Re: LOW T

Postby Rascal123 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:00 am

That is a fantastic post Seven!

yes I've researched this too and opiates. Bupe and Meth have something like 30 to 40% more chance of causing low T. I will find some good data as I know where it is.

This is my story only, 2 years on bupe I started to feel extremely rough. Had trouble getting up, NO sex drive. I felt awful.

I was posting in the other pro sub place and someone said get your testosterone checked. I did, you also need a prostate test in the UK. Cost about £30.

The results showed 5 Nmol. That of a 90 year old man. I had 2 tests just to make sure.

I produced evidence in the other place and it was thrown to one side. was not the Bupe. I tried to explain and bupe and oxy use "May" not have been what caused mine. I believe it was!. the subject got so heated. I ended up getting banned when I found an old post by the sub doctor who runs the forum stating he had concerns about low T. Boom thread detelted.

Before I carry on anyone who gets tested please be careful and understand the pros and cons of TRT. you cant have kids easy. Theres a lot of cons IF you dont do it professionally.

I was prescribed tostran 2% gel. 2 days in I did feel better. Not wonderful. Not high. Just more energy, clarity etc.

I then went private and was on 0.5cc of sustanon 250. A blend of esters. Self injecting every ten days. Intramuscluar.

This may not have been the best option in hindsight. I will update more later as there are many other options before taking this plunge like seven has said.

DO NOT RUSH into anything!

must work. post later. Have a good day my friends over the pond!
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Re: LOW T

Postby Rascal123 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:07 am

admin Ive rushed this post a tad and can add a lot more detailed information from good sources. If you want to delete pls feel free. I dont want every male on here rushing out and injecting themselves with T.


if you think is ok i will post up some good links and provide as much balanced info as possible.

Cheers
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Re: LOW T

Postby nomojo3479 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:34 am

I would advise against anyone taking exogenous test to treat low t from suboxone or methadone use.. I did test for 7 years and my endocrine system is pretty Fucked because of it.. I used to be a proponent of anabolic steroids (until I stopped taking them)... just my two cents.. there is another lowt thread going... mayb cheeps can combine them. Low t is def an issue for men and women on opiate replacement therapy.... but taking exogenous test to treat that problem makes no sense.. the hormonal issue is from an opiate habit.. reverse the opiate habit and you reverse the hormonal problem..
or you can go scorched earth style and blast that hormonal stop sign away carpet bomb style with some weekly testosterone injections.. (seems very American, no)... well, let me say this.. if ur going to do anabolic steroids make sure u do it smart (under a trusted drs supervision) and with the full knowledge that long term trt may cause permanent lasting damage to ur endocrine system.. or not.. but it might. It did me
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Re: LOW T

Postby Rascal123 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:16 pm

nomojo3479 wrote:I would advise against anyone taking exogenous test to treat low t from suboxone or methadone use.. I did test for 7 years and my endocrine system is pretty Fucked because of it.. I used to be a proponent of anabolic steroids (until I stopped taking them)... just my two cents.. there is another lowt thread going... mayb cheeps can combine them. Low t is def an issue for men and women on opiate replacement therapy.... but taking exogenous test to treat that problem makes no sense.. the hormonal issue is from an opiate habit.. reverse the opiate habit and you reverse the hormonal problem..
or you can go scorched earth style and blast that hormonal stop sign away carpet bomb style with some weekly testosterone injections.. (seems very American, no)... well, let me say this.. if ur going to do anabolic steroids make sure u do it smart (under a trusted drs supervision) and with the full knowledge that long term trt may cause permanent lasting damage to ur endocrine system.. or not.. but it might. It did me


Well that is scary! This is just Test cyp or ethanate and not abused for bodybuilding, cycling, adding in other steriods mojo? That I know will and can fuck you up.

I take test and my range is consistently about 25Nmol and within range all other hormone levels checked, fsh, cortisol etc I have a full test to ensure the replacement test is not having any adverse effects. If abused I know the dangers.

That's a tricky one, so the long term opiate abuse if stopped your balls will start to produce normal levels again? That I didn't know I thought it was a permanent issue?

Well what a dilemma if your on 16mg of sub, feeling shit, job and marriage under threat and get tested and find your T levels are virtually non existent. You had kids they grown up. Some hard choices to make their.

100% with this though

if ur going to do anabolic steroids make sure u do it smart (under a trusted drs supervision) and with the full knowledge that long term trt may cause permanent lasting damage to ur endocrine system.. or not.. but it might. It did me
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Re: LOW T

Postby Rascal123 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:46 pm

Just been researching like you say come off the opiates your testosterone will return!

If you live with the below, or is it the bupe?

Low testosterone symptoms
Severe low testosterone may lead to signs and symptoms, including: loss of body hair. loss of muscle bulk and strength. weaker bones (osteoporosis) mood swings (including increased irritability) depression. hot flashes.

All I know is it did improve my general wellbeing for me, but like I say certainly no miracle cure!

This really is a tough one! case by case basis

I know what I'm thinking " I had an on off addiction to oxys and kratom" for 2 years maybe 3 after a traumatic experience, I went for help and got told there's a drug with no withdrawels, safe and will solve my opiate addiction, stay on as long as you need too"

I wish I knew what I knew now and went down another route! Subs really have helped fuck up my life, that's a fact. My own doing. no one else. I'm annoyed at being so mis informed by so called experts.

I'm in it now, I was advised to take testosterone again by so called experts. I'm in it now, on TRT for life.

I must remain positive and fight to get off the sub, I'm hoping the TRT causes me little issues. I may even lower my dose after hearing the above.
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Re: LOW T

Postby Rascal123 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:13 pm

Been thinking hard about this. The test did not change much. At first yes, now I'm back where I was. feeling crap on my taper and prior!

I've Potentially added a whole new host of issues, maybe solved some. who really knows.

If your going to taper your not going to feel great anyway, fact. I doubt low T will make this any better or worse. I would suggest going for your taper and getting your T levels back naturally! Only my own views. I fucked up by being impulsive and thinking TRT would solve all my problems and it didn't. Once I'm off the bupe il update for those following behind.

I'm an good example of "How not to do it" ;)
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Re: Low T, I merged the threads

Postby nomojo3479 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:10 pm

I’m not saying taking test is bad or will ruin your health.. if you have already had all the kids u want and ur ok with being on trt long term and have dr check ur hormone levels regularly than I think it could be helpful/beneficial.. I just say the negatives first and loudest because if any of y’all are anything like me (I’ll read about a drug that does something I want and I go out searching for information that fits my agenda .. really I’m just an advocate of people making fully informed decisions about their pharmacological situation
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Re: Low T, I merged the threads

Postby Sub4Sevenyrs » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:09 am

Rascal, you are by no means "fucked". I mean we were all raped by subs but you don't have to get fucked everyday over and over. I've been on that site, I'd love to talk to some of those ppl in person, that would help stimulate some testosterone for sure which I'd love to release. Fucking ppl should be shot.

You're angry bc your eyes are open, nothing better. Any external source of anything doesn't work, we have genes that transcribe and translate everything we need, for a very simple example let's say A+B ---> T.

If you give the body T externally (by injection or supplementation), body will save its resources (A & B) and inhibit the synthesis of its own T bc it realizes its getting it from somewhere else, same as everything else. This also doesn't help the body stimulate it's own mechanism of production so you are essentially going backwards by taking it but you're not fucked by any means.

Go on netflix and watch "SICK, FAT AND ALMOST DEAD". These guys were 350-400 lbs and went on a juice fast for 60+ days not only losing 100 lbs+ but reversing serious medical problems. The biggest thing though, in the beginning these guys couldn't fucking move for exercise, at all. After a few days they started getting more and more energy to get moving with less and less effort. Increased blood flow to every part of the body will do that.

And if you smoke, like I do (I should have my own railroad) you're really fucking yourself. But hey, it is what it is. One thing at a time. No reason to beat yourself up, it's not a moral issue. You do all you can with the information at the time. It's an evolving process. Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Re: Low T, I merged the threads

Postby Rascal123 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:49 am

Thanks guys. Wise and honest words.

mojo im the exactly the same " (I’ll read about a drug that does something I want and I go out searching for information that fits my agenda"

BUT i look at positives and tend to skim over negatives. I hear what I want to hear which is piss poor. Im depesperate in a sense and have always been impulsive.

If any of you want any perosonal feedback on most drugs, notropics. peptides. you name it ive likely tried it and every time fallen on my arse.9 lives. try 90. next time i may not be as lucky.

I even thought about doing a 3 day Iboga trip as i read it can stop WDs. BS. silly "c" would likely kill me! I have finally given up and want to it properly. without ending up dead.

Thanks Seven yes a heavy smoker here too and your right Rome wasnt built in a day. I need to take the advice. Ive tried it my way. mindset has changed. Been thinking deeply since I joined here and Cheeps, you guys been great.

Thank you. I feel humbled and feel I can just say it how it is and how i feel.
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