It’s been 2.5 years and I have returned

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It’s been 2.5 years and I have returned

Postby StageMonkey » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:32 pm

Hi all! Good to see Cheeps is still posting. I was in here about 2.5 years ago when I was trying to kick my sub therapy. My goal was to quit before my son was born. I have hospital MRSA and had to have surgery and fell off before my son was born. I’ve bounced around between 2-4mg a day since then. My son turns 2 on Valentine’s Day and I’ve been down and I’m feeling weak and kind of like a failure. I also have depression. I lost my original job and my insurance one year ago when the business shut down and luckily (or unluckily) stockpiled quite a bit since I was taking 1/4 of the doses prescribed for several months. I haven’t had my depression meds in about a year and I’m running low on subs now so it’s time to pay the piper. Besides being depressed my anxiety is through the roof. I don’t want my son to see my go through this. I don’t know what I’m going to do.......

Awesome welcome back huh?! Sorry I wish I had a success story for you guys but I don’t. I’ve been thinking about trying to use short acting opiates to try to ease the wd’s but most pages I’ve read says that doesn’t work. Can someone hook me up with a link that will help me break down my pills? It’s hard for me to get my pills to break into smaller than 2mg doses. I’m actually scared. Sigh.

Well I’m happy the forum is still here, my old handle was “clevelandmollusk”. Hope others are feeling better than me. Good luck everyone.

-J
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Re: It’s been 2.5 years and I have returned

Postby Dcleanist » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:47 pm

Welcome back to sanity my friend

I think you're son is more worried about how to talk at age 2 rather than if the world is going to shit one daddy at a time. Lol. I'm guessing you will do all you can to see him turn 4. But I doubt he will know your a better father because you're opy free.

If you have the time and patience ween to your personal culmfurt. But always remember when your on opys it's like being on the clock. When opys/sub turns on you. Your damned if you do and damned if you don't. Be proud you still have the choice of culmfurtable weening. Ween whine do whatever it takes. Peace
The voice of reason is reasonably late.
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Re: It’s been 2.5 years and I have returned

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:21 am

Welcome back. I’ve been tapering (more like bouncing around) on 1 mg for 15 months! I’m 5 days away from the day I plan to jump...emphasis on the words: plan to.

A couple of things. Firstly, start a new thread under the SubSux category as you’ll get a lot more support and interaction there. Many people only open that page and just go there directly.

From what you wrote, it appears you have 8mg tablets. That’s the most difficult to work with. I don’t know how many you have but if you have enough to taper with I’d strongly consider going to the liquid method if I were you. This would solve your dosing issues.

You don’t say what dose you’re stable on right now, just a range of 2-4mg/day. That a huge range. If you can get on and stay on 2mg and then use the liquid method you’d have a good game plan. But if you’re on 4mg/day and only have a dozen tablets left this won’t work, not as a long slow taper. But you only have 2 choices using sub, plan the best taper you can with what you’ve got or get more. Why is getting more not an option for you? Sub doctors are a dime a dozen and generic sub is very inexpensive as a cash patient. You should be under a doctors care and then do the total opposite of whatever they tell you to do hahah. But seriously, why not get more?

How did you go through that level of staph infection which required surgery while on suboxone?!!? Didn’t you have to switch to full agonist opiates for extended periods of time during all that?!?! I can’t imagine how much more complicated your case was made by being on buprenorphine!!! I would have needed PCA pumps! Morphine drips with a fentanyl chaser. You must have been miserable. If you can make it through resistant staph while on buprenorphine you can make it though anything. That took one tough MF.

As far as switching to full agonist SAO it raises another question: how can you get months worth of SAOs? How can you get enough SAO to taper off an opiate dependency but not get more bupe (which is much easier to get)? As far as switching goes, all I can tell you is during my taper I had 2 surgeries. Both times I switched over to SAOs no problem. But I only did this for a few days so it’s not really a good metric. But I did stop taking suboxone during those times. Clinically, if you’re on 2mg of sub and you calculate the morphine equivalent of any given SAOs (just google ‘morphine equivalent calculator’ and put in the dose of bupe your taking verses any other opiate and it will tell you how much you’d need, not to taper but to feel stable) it should work fine. But you’d have to deal with other issues, such as more reward drive compared to what buprenorphine provides and that adds complexity.

I’m assuming you’re the dad becasue you wrote ‘before my son was born’ and not ‘before I had my son’...correct?

Anyway...you have to look at your situation from the standpoint of status. What dose you’re currently on, how much you have left, what you could get, and how much discomfort can you contend with and still function within your responsibilities. How old are you? Age is a huge factor IMHO. The 20-30 year olds make it look easy compared to the 50+ crowd (which includes me). I’m guessing later 30s?

I hope this helps somewhat. The only real advice that I know will help is don’t disappear, stay connected to this site. There’s a lot of very smart and compassionate people here that know a ton whom will all support you through anything.

Best to You -

SDD
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: It’s been 2.5 years and I have returned

Postby StageMonkey » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:03 pm

You’re assumptions nailed most of it. I’m 35 in March. I’m a former heroin addict, I’ve been off the junk for 3 years in may. I have 16 tablets left, I take 2mg a day but every now and then weakness usually do to pain or whatever causes me to take a half rather than a quarter of a pill. The weirdest thing to me is how easy it was to taper from 16mg to 2mg but that going lower seems to tear me apart. My staph (MRSA) is really the bane of my existence. It’s really what helped me relapse onto dope after being clean for a few years. I had a minor ventral hernia surgery where one of the sutures became infected with MRSA. One minor surgery turned into 5 surgeries. Now it’s just something I deal with. I currently have 3 infections, and I have to go and have an abscess lanced every few months it seems. Usually I just use ibuprofen to deal with the pain. But from my many surgeries I have all sorts of pain pills that I always got off quickly. Over the summer my toe was crushed at work and I had half my big toe amputated which resulted in some heavy meds but after a week I was off them and back on my sub. I can deal with pain, when I crushed my toe I initially tried to walk it off, realizing I was bleeding I walked over a quarter of a mile to my car to drive myself to the ER. I didn’t realize my toe was only half attached to my foot. Sorry I’m losing my train of thought here, but I have a lot of different meds saved up, pills never really did much for me the way heroin did so they’re just collecting dust.

I know a lot of my taper issues are psychological. Every morning when I wake up I feel like the living dead until I have my sub. I have stomach pains and muscle aches until I take it. All of the sub doctors in my area seem to be the same. They cost between 200-400 for the initial intake and require you to go to group meetings three times a week. I don’t know how to find any that are different, all the places I’ve called are the same. The last place I went I could only make 2 meeting so they required me to see a counselor once a week that cost me $70. My work schedule now is so random that it would be easy or hard to make meeting on a week by week basis. I’ll respond with more later when I have some more time. Thank you for your thoughts and advice, I’m gonna stick around this time. My first baby kind of took up all my energy and I fell off the forum. I really want an end in sight, and I need help, hopefully from a doctor but also from people who understand.

Thank again
-J
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Re: It’s been 2.5 years and I have returned

Postby Subverted DietDoc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:18 pm

So just a couple of thoughts. Do you not have any medical insurance at all? How to pay for the unbelievable high cost of boutique antibiotics and all the on-going medical care you need...like not to die?

I found a sub doctor that charged 60 dollars a month and there was zero stupid meetings or counciling attached to her care. And I found her randomly, it wasn’t professional courtesy. I’m just saying maybe keep looking.

I had one other thought. Since you have ligitate pain is there a way, since you’re already on buprenorphine, you can get a doctor to prescribe Belbuca? This would be the answer to your prayers. But cost may be an issue, I don’t know. But you could use your 16 8s to taper to 2 mg a day and that where Belbuca starts (at 1.8 mg a day).

I did some math and you have exactly 9 weeks or 64 days at 2mg/day left. If you reduced by 15% every 8 days you could make it, or be very close.

If you can find a way to cover the cost of Belbuca all problems are solved. If you can’t I’d get that taper going ASAP. You don’t want to jump off of 1.5 mg/d if you can at least mitigate that fall. Your age is a big pro but your health issues are a con. I feel really bad for you. You have what is called an iatrogenic disease or nosocomial...I’d call a lawyer on that for sure. I know that doesn’t help your current situation but that just really bothers me. They MADE you sick.

Anyway, I posted on Belbuca if you want to look at that. I’m concerned about your insurance. If the hospital is treating you at no cost I’ll be your lawyer! That means they’ve accepted liability. Sorry, nosocomial diseases make me nuts!

The NAABT suboxone taper calculator says you’d need 28 mg to taper off of 2 mg in 38 days. I find their calculations to be too fast and aggressive but you’re only 35 and don’t have much to work with. But you do have a lot more than 28 mg (you have 128mg!!!) So you could modify their chart by a lot and slow it way down. You’re in better shape than I thought...except for the whole life-threading treatment resistance super infection thing. I am so sorry you have that.

Anyway I hope this helps a little. You can do this. I assume you don’t have acess to a microgram scale? You can powder your sub and make highly reliable fractional doses with that. If not, read the liquid taper threads.
I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is a vengeful, angry one. The other wolf is a loving, compassionate one. Which wolf will win the fight in my heart? The one I feed.

Buprenorphine: 10 years @ 16 mg/d ave. - Jumped Off February 5, 2018 @ 0.09mg
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Re: It’s been 2.5 years and I have returned

Postby cheeps » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:39 pm

Yep...it's time to get strict big J. You have to quit dumping 4mgs when you feel like shit. And if you need the antidepressant meds....you can call the local mental health peeps in your county/region and they will hook you up on that...they looove to treat peeps with depression. But...do you feel like the sub is the depression monger?

How long in the morning after you dose do the muscle aches and stomach pains go away?
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper halted
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