Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

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Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Tired4123 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:58 pm

So i'm new to this guys but i've been wanting to reach out to others for a while.

If I can be a warning to others that haven't been on this shit long term, that will be my "give back" so to speak.

I've been on Sub since around 2008 (I know, I know.)

Anyhow, in about December 2015 I got really sick with a sore throat and couldn't swallow. Then I came off xanax rapidly and started to get dizzy and was tired all the time.

My now ex-wife wanted me off Sub immediately and I couldn't do it all at once. I couldn't wake up at regular hours and found out that I now have sleep apnea. Central (where you don't breath in your sleep from your brain) and obstructive where you have a block.

I wear a CPAP now at 31 years old. I am in good shape visually. I weigh 195 and am 6''2'. I shouldn't have to use a CPAP, but part of me thinks this sub has caused some sort of weird physical and mental breathing issue and now I need assistance to get deep breaths when sleeping.

Anyhow, I have attempted to taper over this past year and went from 2 mgs down to .5 mgs. Now I am stuck. IF I don't take .5 mg a day, I have zero energy. Zero motivation and I am DEPRESSED. I have read up on this crap and realize it works on our dopamine receptors. I know I need to eventually jump, but I don't want to get so down, that I end up thinking of suicidal thoughts. Because I was very seriously killing myself last year. Lack of sleep and motivation will do that to you.

Anyhow, I guess I'm asking if there are any remedies to help get past these final tapers. I plan on .5mg to .25mg then jump.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Tired4123 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:41 am

Zero responses? Really guys?
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:51 am

Tired..
Heh man just wanted to reach out to you and say I know how you feel bro.. I know what it's like to feel stuck on this fucking drug!! I'm pretty new here as well and you and I are pretty much on the same dose, so I don't have any infinite words of wisdom but all I can say is there are a lot of great threads in here of people's experiences and knowledge through tapering and getting off this poison..It has been suggested to me to think about a liquid taper at this point..Have you put any thought into that at all yet?Also I have found that exercising is helping me a lot with motivation, that being said once I reached .5 I have noticed I have to force my ass into the gym!! Hope your doing alright and hang in there man!!!
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby syd » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:31 am

Welcome!

We do not recommend jumping from .25 mg nor cutting your dose from .5 to .25. That's WAY to much of a cut, once you get at lower doses.
The ppl that have the most success slow it down at this point.
10% cuts every 2 weeks or hold till you stabilize.

Eyedotz did the perfect taper. Check out her threads.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:29 am

Tired4123 wrote:Zero responses? Really guys?



Hey there...this forum is really small and most people are working on their tapers or are on the other side....I've been out of the office so to speak and missed your posts.

Any time you find a thread in active topics and want a response....use PM. Most of us current members get an email and that brings us running.


How long have you been stuck on .5?

Syd is so right....do not make a 50% cut or you'll really feel like shit, jump, and have worse issues.

How long on .5 and are you on liquid, strips, pills, or patches?
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:35 am

You and wannabe are in the same boat and that's kinda cool. We encourage having a jumpbuddy even if you don't actually do it at the same time.

I have to use cpap myself. It gave me my life back. I have 50-60 events per hour. I had it when I was a child too but of course they didn't know shit about it then. I'm just glad you've addressed it. It caused my heart rhythm to change. Any age can have it. Skinny people have it. Just very glad you've figured it out.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:14 am

I also wanted to mention reading freeagain thread, don pisto, yup, turbo, eyedotz, cheezeeandee, sindysun....any thread that has many pages has a wealth of info on how YOU are feeling and where to turn.

Stay on .5 until you read....I know it's a pain and your are suffering and impatient but the more you meet these peeps, the better you will think. Patience....you've had it, draw on it again. :cheers2:
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Tired4123 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:37 pm

cheeps wrote:
Tired4123 wrote:Zero responses? Really guys?






How long have you been stuck on .5?

Syd is so right....do not make a 50% cut or you'll really feel like shit, jump, and have worse issues.

How long on .5 and are you on liquid, strips, pills, or patches?


Thank you for the responses. I guess I just need some motivation from you guys at this point. I've been on .5 since probably about February to be honest. I feel like I can't breath very well and it seems like i can breath slightly better when I dose, but i'm not sure. I've seen threads out there that have stated that Sub has caused shallow breathing, even when people taper. I know that seems weird, as breathing issues are usually linked to too much sub, not too little.

Anyhow, I have been using a pill cutter and cutting 2mg pills into 4ths, and trying to make those last 4 days. Some times they only last 3, so I suppose i'm taking anywhere from .5mg to .525 mg. I don't know.

anyhow, yes I will look into a liquid taper. I have it a little better in that I can take the rest of the year off if needed. I am in sales and really pushed myself this year with it in mind that I would fight through the withdrawals this month. Well the month is already almost over and I still find myself taking around .5mg everyday.

I've considered looking into Ibogaine after jumping to help with the potential PAWS. I've heard that it can really help speed up recovery. Anyone do that?

Thanks again.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Tired4123 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:30 pm

Also: does anyone have a video example of the liquid taper? Thanks.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:00 am

Tired. There are lots of threads that describe the liquid method but no video here. Annalo is using it now.she's at.5, 2 times a day. Later when I'm not on my phone I'll try to find some links.

Sindysun has a stickie in the subsux part called "liquid taper, here's how."
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Tired4123 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:56 pm

Thank you very much for your help. Have you read up on anyone using Ibogaine?
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:26 am

We don't promote iboga here as it's risky...but yes, I know peeps that have used it by going to Mexico.

It's was only a couple, one said it helped and the other had a bad trip with it.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby syd » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:01 pm

Tired? Anyone that tells you that Ibogaine will help with PAWS is lying to you and out to get your money. It can help with short acting drug detox, but not Methadone or Bupe. It may help with cravings but not PAWS, unless you plan on having multiple treatments.

No reputable place will take you without a medical workup. Iboga lowers oxygen saturation and can cause Hypoxia. I'd be leery of any place that would be willing to take that risk, knowing you have Sleep Apnea.

PAWS is nothing to fear. It's simply the brain struggling to start making it's own chemicals again. The less you fuck with that, the better off you will be. In the beginning, you will have a few days in a row of feeling like you arent progressing. But that is the opposite of whats really going on. It's progress. Embrace it! For years we have saturated our brains with feel good chemicals. There is no quick fix other than letting the brain heal itself. And it will.

There are plenty of other things you can do to boost dopamine that doesnt involve a drug. You've got a ways to go before you need to worry about PAWS. For right now, just concentrate on getting off sub.

To reduce your .5 dose by 10%, crush the .5 into 5 equalish piles. One pile per day and stay there for 10 days or till you feel ok, then drop again. It is impossible to taper if you vary your dose.

As for the breathing...have you tried controlled breathing exercises?
Try inhaling to the count of 10. Then exhale to the count of 20. Keep stretching out the time. Controlled breathing will get rid of carbon monoxide, a byproduct of Sleep Apnea. You can do this anywhere/anytime. The more you practice, the easier it becomes. It has a calming effect and it promotes your ability to stay focused. Having control over your thoughts is one of the best tools you can have.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Tired4123 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:04 pm

@syd

thank you for the response. I know I have ways to go, but that is what i'm worried about. I already feel awful everyday and have hardly any drive or motivation to do anything. only after I take my .5mg sliver of pill do i have a little bit of drive. I don't know how i'll accomplish anything when it gets worse than this. That is what i'm afraid of I suppose. I wish I knew what was causing this breathing stuff and the sleep apnea. I can't even fall asleep now without the CPAP which is weird. Even the worst of sleep apnea sufferers can sleep without their machine. I feel it is some sort of strange physical and psychological symptom of coming off Xanax and the taper from Sub.

Who knows. I had a feeling I would deal with this, even years ago when I go prescribed this crap. I had heard the horror stories of not being able to come off this stuff, and the doctor convinced me that what I had read online was just a "small minority" of complainers. What a dick.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby syd » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:13 pm

You've gone thru a lot in the past year. Probably too much too fast.

But you're still standing and searching for ways to get better. Patience isnt in our vocabularies. Opiate detox will fix that or else you will always be looking for the next softest landing, never accomplishing your goal. We here have seen/tried them all. The Chinese Formula, Withdrawal-Eze, Kratom & Iboga. The only thing that will stop opiate withdrawals is another opiate. Even Imodium is addicting if you take it long enough.

Protracted benzo w/d is quite common with a rapid detox. Even a properly done taper of benzo's is 100 time worse and more dangerous than Sub will ever be. You deserve a medal for that detox alone. Thank your lucky stars that you didnt have seizures.

Do you ever get a feeling of brain zaps or electrical impulses in your nerves/muscles? Bouts of intense irritability? If so, you probably have protracted xanax w/d, which is contributing to your apnea/mailaise/depression. Antidepressants will work for the depression, IF that's the case. If you dont have any of those symptoms, then you Have to look at the Sub as the root of your apnea.

When we say less is more with Sub, there is a reason. At low doses, it seems the agonist barely works.
At 2mg and below, it acts more like a straight up opiate, causing respiratory depression, which makes sleep apnea so much worse, which makes the depression worse. Sub and other synthetic narcotics give you a boost of energy. You dont get that with Morphine or heroin. Long term sub users are so accustomed to feeling up after they dose, they feel like the bottom dropped out when they get to low dosing.

The reason we advocate a slow, deliberate taper is to allow the body to achieve homeostasis. Being in a state of constant flux makes that impossible. Maybe in light of the benzo ish, you need to just hold at .5 for a while. But keep it a constant .5. No spiking. Can you do that?
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:41 pm

Syd knows what the deal is and explains it much better than I do.

Look....one of the main reason you should suffer slowly NOW is to give your brain some receptor shrinkage time. Any ass lowering, knuckle dragging, lead suit feeling, no motivation...what the Fuck is that anyway? crap that you deal with before the jump,...really does help with after acute detox bullshit.

So...suffer some now and creep along....or suffer like hell later. When you go back and check in with peeps that got impatient and jumped...the first words out of their mouths is......I fucked up....I shoulda tapered more.

Are you exercising at all?
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Tired4123 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:30 am

@syd that makes a lot of sense. I did have a lot of those symptoms from the Xanax WD's. Mostly brain fog and a feeling of depersonalization if that makes sense. Almost like I was alive, but wasn't living at the same time. Like I was watching my life underwater. It was an awful feeling.

Slowly overtime that has gone away. I couldn't even drive without feeling a sense of dread. I ended up looking into Benzo WD stories and they were nightmarish. Some people literally had their lives ruined by detoxing off of Benzos. Jobs lost, school quit on, it sounded awful. Luckily I was only taking the benzo as kind of a sleep aid, and only .25mg to .5mg at most. But it was for years and my body had become accustomed to it. My downfall was not really having any major WD symptoms until like a week after stopping. it was really strange.

Anyhow, now mostly I just want to lay in bed all day. I wake up with headaches and low, low motivation. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the sleep quality and the sleep apnea, even though i'm using a CPAP. I'm going to the sleep doc next week to look into my machines results. Hopefully they can figure that out and make this less of a headache.

@cheeps

I lift weights around 4-5 times a week and have started playing basketball 2-3 a week too, so I am getting some exercise. It helps for sure. The problem is I never have the motivation to go do anything until after I take my sub. This is why I am having a hard time fathoming how i'm going to get anything done when I jump below this dose. I still cant believe how hard it is to come off this med. People really don't understand unless they have gone through it.
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:59 am

Very good....glad you are exercising.

As men we tend to think we have to always be there for the fam, work, whatever. If you can taper lower, your physical won't be all that bad....think case of the flu....with RLS. It's good to know you didn't suffer thru the benzo wds like the rest did. You should not have full blown ass kicking sub wds either.

Speaking of RLS, do you have any comfort meds for that?
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby cheeps » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:02 am

No....no one understands sub unless they have been in your shoes. It does eat the soul at times. One Thing to ponder....after you get thru the acute wds....you have a two week period of mental clarity. This event gives you the motivation to keep going. Did you know that?
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Re: Down to .5mg and STUCK.. HELP PLEASE

Postby Annalo57 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:42 pm

Hello Tired. I'm Anna aka Annalo. I'm on a liquid taper down to .45mg. Its slow and arduous, and painful, and oh so depressing. I have been on Subtext for years. i spent a long time on 2mg a day which I realize now is actually a very high dose of this poison. It has stolen my soul. I don't remember myself, who i was, before this medication. Even on Heroin I knew who I was. Not endorsing Heroin in any way. Even on Methadone I knew who i was. Not endorsing Methadone in any way either. But this shit, this shit makes those drugs seem like child's play, and oh God they were not.

Anyway, I was reading your posts and I wanted to reach out because we seem to be at a similar place in this process. Some days it feels possible, other days it feels impossible. I am here, I am with you. We are trying to slay the beast, with no ammo. But perhaps, with each other's help, and the help of all the people on this site, we just might do it. Feel free to hit me back. Whatever works for you.

Anna
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