Subtaper

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Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:56 am

So I'm new to this forum or any forum for that matter so please bear with me as I get started here.. My story is nothing extra ordinary, I began using opiates nine years ago and quickly progressed to 200 to 300 mgs of oxycodone a day which I stayed on for 4 years..Once everything in my life(marriage,job,finances etc...) turned to shit I decided it was time to get help and went to detox..Long story short I was detoxed successfully with minimal withdrawals using a rapid detox with suboxone.. I managed to stay clean for 3 1/2-4 months and started a new job and then sub made its way back into my life when i met a new coworker who was prescribed an insane 32mgs a day!! At first I would aquire them through this coworker and use them at spermatic doses in order to substitute an opiate high.Looking back now almost 5 years later, what a major fucking bad decision!! After a year and a half the well went dry from my coworker as he was kicked out of his program for failing his third drug test..So I tried to kick from as I said spermatic doses of up to 8mg and as low as 2mg. I lasted 12 days and was actually starting to feel better when I again made the idiotic decision to take just another piece of sub to feel better that was offered from a former "running buddy"..

After weeks of in and out of withdrawals, I made the decision to obtain a sub dr. And was inducted at 8mgs and have been on the sub ride ever sense.. Most of my time on sub has been a 5 year taper with constant spikes in order to try an achieve extra energy an motivation opiates once offered me. Anyways over the last 11/2 years I have managed to taper somewhat regularly with only minimal spikes every so often down to .5 mgs a day. As of now I am stable at .5mgs with no spikes for almost two weeks. Sorry for the long post, I have been a lurker on this site and others for quite a while, and listening to the experience and posts of people like cheeps, eyedotz and ratch have really helped me feel like it is possible for me to rid my self of this poison..I guess I felt like I just needed to open up and talk to people that have been through sub hell and made it to the other side..thanks for listening!!!
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:34 pm

Welll.....you have made the commitment....I'm thinking the problem is staying off? I'm really glad you've been here lurking and finally made a thread.

What do you want to do next? Liquid taper to nothing?

I guess I'm more interested in what you can do to stay away from the pull. I know you can jump. I see that you feel you need motivation...I get that shit completely. Has there been other things that kept you cruisen along?

How old are you and what do like to do IRL?

Wannajump is fine but maybe a nickname to go with it?
10 yrs on methadone
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:11 am

Heh Cheeps, thanks for replying to my thread!! I think it's awesome how many people you guys help here!! As for me I'm 39 years old, although over the last year or so I feel like I'm living in a much older mans body..I think I may have fucked up my liver from taking subs because I've had this lower right abdominal pain for quite sometime now. When it first started I had blood work done and everything checked out fine, but the pain has not gone away and I have had a lot of back pain to go with it. So I decided to get checked once again and am waiting on the results.
As far as what I want to do next with my taper, I'm not really sure where to go from here. I am on the 2mg strips and am thinking I will just keep cutting them as small as I can get them to get as low as I can go before jumping. Right now I am split dosing .25 in the a.m and the other .25 in the evening.I was thinking about ten percent reductions every 14 days or so from here on out.
As far as what I like to do, I'm really not sure anymore I guess, I have three daughters, one in college and the other two much younger in grade school who are all very active with sports/dance and academics. So that occupies a lot of my free time which is great!! Back before I ever started on opies, I used to love to do lots of things like going to concerts, football games, riding atvs, snowmobiling,camping etc....I still do some of these activities, like camping and football games but as described by others most of the time I feel like I'm watching everything from the outside looking in. I mean I hardly get joy out of doing fucking anything anymore.
Year after year I have told myself what kind of life is this that I'm living?? I think over and over about how nice it would be to just feel again,even if the feelings suck ass itleast they would be real!!! I always find a reason to justify not jumping, like work schedule, vacations, kids activities etc.. in the end I know there is never gonna be the perfect time and I'm just prolonging the enevitable!!
I guess my biggest worry is staying stopped, and I agree that this is gonna be my biggest hurdle..I just don't know how to stop that fucking voice in my head that justifies using drugs.
Thanks again for responding
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Dcleanist » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:55 am

I thought age was only a trick of the mind. Lol.

Stick to your plan and have no worries. Don't project failure as some say and no sense fearing the inevitable but I can remind you why you should smile despite the pain/hardship.
The voice of reason is reasonably late.
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:20 am

I can tell you that regret over the years wasted just gets worse. And once you get too 45....your body is really going to be pissed.

You need to think about and put into ACTION an exercise program. When you go to daughters stuff....walk. Get a Pedometer and start counting steps....do it. Start a small project like a model, a puzzle, fantasy football....something to turn to when you need to stay busy.....It's better for it to be creative. Healing is what you need to be concerned with.

Have you read any in "staying clean"?
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:43 am

Thanks for the words of wisdom decleanist!! Sometimes I need to remind myself that I am a very lucky man to have a family that has always been there through thick and thin and there is always a reason to keep smiling..


Heh Cheeps, I hear u about the exercise thing, once I was able to get down to 11/2 mgs I started going to the gym at work everyday. What a difference that alone has made as far as motivation and just all around feeling better!! I do agree that I need to occupy myself a little better with some hobbies though. I really enjoy wood working, but haven't made anything in quite sometime.. Maybe I'll start a new project for the wife next week, lord knows she deserves it for putting up with my up and down moods lately!!!
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:45 am

Also I have not read anything in staying clean, but I will check it out... thanks a bunch for the suggestions!!
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:36 am

Wanted to see if anyone out there has any input on splitdosin right up until jumping off? I guess deep down the whole time I've been on sub I've kind of felt like dosing more than once a day has kept my addictive behavior running strong, but as I have tapered down bit by bit I almost feel like it has helped quite a bit as far as keeping my fucking sanity whatever that is!! :crazy:
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:11 am

Wannabesubjumpa wrote:Wanted to see if anyone out there has any input on splitdosin right up until jumping off? I guess deep down the whole time I've been on sub I've kind of felt like dosing more than once a day has kept my addictive behavior running strong, but as I have tapered down bit by bit I almost feel like it has helped quite a bit as far as keeping my fucking sanity whatever that is!! :crazy:



There are pros and cons to it. If you go to once a day, sometimes evening is better because of sleep issues. Also, if you do switch, by some vitamins and probiotics and take them instead. Eat veggies! :banghead: :cheers:
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:57 am

Thanks for the input Cheeps!! I read around this site and there is so many posts that are so insightful and inspiring!Then I think about everything I'm feeling and want to say but can't seem to pull the fucking words from my thick skull!! I guess i'm struggling a bit with this fucking taper as well!! I try to tell myself that I'm doing good and stay positive as much as possible, but in reality am I really? I know in order to be successful I need to put in the work, so what am I waiting for?? Do work goddammit!! I want off this shit more than ever!!
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Dcleanist » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:29 am

I think you underestimate how individualy hard this is. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. We try to help eachother out and "judge with love".

Go at a pace that works for you. If you slack too much the sub will turn on you and quickn the process but usually takes many years at higher doses to start turning.
The voice of reason is reasonably late.
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:09 am

Wanna....

In order to do a somewhat successful slow taper, patience has to be used...one has to listen to the body and tell the mind to fuck off. While there is a formula that helps, each person has to pay attention to what is tolerable for them....until it isn't tolerable at all anymore.

When one gets below .75, we recommend a liquid taper...it's more precise in these small numbers and one can drop incrementally and get much of the shiftiness over with before the jump.

Let me know if I can help you find info on this....one basic thread is, liquid taper, here's how. Edotz, cheezeeandee, and sindysun are experts.
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:38 am

What's up ss,

Wanted to check in after a few days away.. i'm kind of obsessed with searching around this sight right now and have been sence I took the plunge and started my own thread. Everyday I think about posting something and then I second guess my self thinking that I have nothing to worthy to offer. I guess it boils down to my non existent self confidence!! So after reading an older thread from this forum that was really inspiring about how we need to change what is comfortable and do different things to get different results, I forced myself to post.. So after feeling really pretty stable on my dose of .50 I decided to make a drop to .37 and am on day 5 at that dose. I know this may be a little bit to aggressive at this low of a dose but I have decided to give it a go and see how I feel and go from there. So far withdrawal symptoms have been bearable and at times I almost feel even better the lower I have gone down throughout this taper..Last night was the first night that sleep was interrupted at times though which leaves me to wonder what Is in store for the days and nights to come..

Cheeps thanks for the feedback as always about a liquid taper. I apreciate u taking the the time to reach out and I am giving it some serious thought. Hope all is well with all the good peeps on here!!
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:36 am

Just remember this....sometimes it takes a few tries to find what works. Wds don't really hit for 5-10 days.

Just keep posting.....ranting and babble are ok. It helps to go back and see how you were three weeks from now.

Don't worry about looking stupid or over emotional....this is all part of the process. Crying while tapering is COMMON. Ranting here is encouraged. Raising hell at me is ok. "Cheeps, you crazy bitch....are you stupid, I can't do that".

I don't get my feeling hurt too easily....I know the feeling of incredulity and pissiness that comes with detox. "Are you fucking serious? You want me to DO what?"

The only bullshit not tolerated is shame, judgement, narcissism, and defeat.

Ask dcleanist if I've ever given up on him.

This community knows every thing you've felt and thought. All of you have lived the special hell and that's why I value every one of you. WELL, except for the sneaker salesman.....He's got to go. Fucking spammers.

The smilies I'd love to have are these.

Twisted up like a pretzel, and kicking one's own ass.

Keep posting, drink water, take hot showers, use restless energy to sweep and mop floors.
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:29 pm

What's up peeps,

So today is day 9 at my lowered dose of .375 and the last few days have been a little rough at times. Mainly a few bouts of rls and some sleep issues but nothing I really haven't been dealing with already since dosing at and or under 1mg for the last 8 months or so..So I kind of feel at like a crossroads lately, once I got to 1 mg I felt stuck for quite sometime. So I decided something needs to change and began cutting out a lot of the sugar that I am always craving,started eating healthier, drinking more water and started working out 4 - 5 times a week for the last 4 months mainly just weight training since I do a physical job that already requires a fair amount of cardio. It was only at this point that I was able to feel like I had the momentum/ motivation to decrease my dose..

With each little decline I have felt a sence of accomplishment, and coming on ss and reading all the experiences of people that have and or are feeling the same things has really helped to give me hope that I too may be free from this poison soon! That being said one of the things troubling me lately is trying to figure out how I can make my taper/ jump coincide with everything else that's going to be coming up soon in my life. I guess I'm a little conflicted because my wife god bless her has been planning this vacation for the family to Disney World for sometime now and it's only roughly a month and half away. My taper plan has been to decrease every 14 days or so by 10-15 percent depending on how I feel,but with the vacation coming I have decided it might be better to just hold steady where I am cause I just don't want to ruin my family's vacation by feeling like shit everyday..

I'm also very concerned about my liver and or possibly one of my kidneys. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I have been experiencing lower abdominal pain for a while now accompanied by excruciating back pain daily..So two and a half weeks ago I had my sub dr. Give me a slip for blood work and urinalysis.. Now I go to a sub place that is weekly and two fucking visits in a row these fuckers keep telling me they haven't received the results from the hospital yet!! Fucking nerve racking!! I'm trying to be patient and think positive about it but the not knowing if I've royally fucked my innards up or not is really fucking with my psyche lately!!!

So getting back to my taper/ jump off, waiting till after vacation and then starting to decrease again poses another concern for me. The only time I can get off of work is like 10 days which falls right before and after Christmas which in one way may be the best time to just suck it up and jump.. But when I play it out in my head I think about what a piece of shit father I am going to feel like if I ruin my family's holiday break!!Idk guess I felt like I just had to bitch a little bit today, I'm just worried that I will lose the momentum I kind of have going for me as far as the taper has been going. One things for sure, I was just reading a post by psilver and I thought he hit the nail on the head when he said it's like a Evil game of chess going on inside my head. The one thing I really haven't had a urge to do lately is spike, which has been an issue for me throughout this experience on sub.. I just want the old me back man, first and foremost for me but also for my wife and kids.. They deserve so much better than the man I have become on sao's/subs this I know!!!! Part of me keeps thinking just fucking jump already and get it over with.. There is always going to be some fucking reason it's not the right time!! I realize the whole point of a slow and low taper is to learn patience and along with that comes the ability to relax once down to these little doses but man sometimes I just question what is right for me at this point...
Heh Cheeps thanks for all your feedback, your a good person and this forum is lucky to have u!!! How is your taper going??Hope your doing well and good luck with the job!!

Thanks for listening,
T
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:49 am

T.....man...the scenarios just cycle in the brain...don't they? I'm thinking that you are going to wait until Xmas...suck it up and do it then. By then you'll be ready physically and I think you'll be surprised at how well it will go.

Think of it this way....jumping at this low dose you're going to be on....it will be no worse than having a case of the flu. Your family will coddle you and help you get thru it. You've got to be selfish in this way. It won't even be a big deal for them...they'll just think you are sick....the lower you get on this side...the better you'll feel then. After you get thru the physical stuff...there will be about two weeks of feeling like you've conquered the world. So the reality is...for the first 3weeks after the initial flu...you'll be good.

I'd jump before a little before Xmas and take the chance that you'll be ok.

Seriously...if you can stay patient and not think about letting anyone down...you'll be ok. We all have rough times and you might feel you need to be strong for everyone else...but in doing this....you are being TOTALLY strong. You are getting free of this shit.

All of your thoughts are normal. We kick ourselves in the ass when it comes to being there for the fams. But in order for you to fully engage and live the life you want...

You'll have to be selfish, get sick, let them love you thru it...and keep walking towards freedom.
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Re: Subtaper

Postby Wannabesubjumpa » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:00 am

What's up ss,
Checking back in after a few days away from posting, but have been reading everyday still. Feeling a bit relieved in a way after finally getting results of blood and urine test and all came back normal. I say a bit releieved because I'm still am having constant back pain and like a mild abdominal ache, so I have an apt. To see my pcp at the end of the month and we will see what he thinks. Could I just be in a constant state of withdrawal for like the last 8 months under 1mg, and have just gotten used to feeling like shit everyday??idk I am greatful at any rate that my liver and kidney seem to be functioning at a normal rate!!!! Whew!! One thing that pissed me off after going to visit my subdoc was that he told me that the DEA visited them recently and wasn't happy with the way they are running things( too many patients per dr). So as I result after going to this prick every week for almost five years I'll still be going every week but only actually seeing him every other..It just pisses me off that they do everything in there power to get people hooked on this shit but nothing to actually help them get off of it..I mean not once in 5 years has this dr suggested me lowering my dose, every decrease was me telling him I wanted to drop. I feel like they have no clue how strong this shit is, when I got to 1mg I asked the doc what the "protocol"would be from here on out and he said " you could just stop at this dose if you want"..fucking clueless!!

So I'm still holding at my dose of .375 and the rsl has been kicking my ass, so much so that I have used a little bit of my stash of gabapentin here and there, but am trying to refrain from it cause I don't want to be screwed when the time comes that I am really going to need them. Also I have been smoking pot daily for the most part sence I got under 1mg. I'm kind of in this funk lately where one day I have all the motivation in the word to keep tapering and then the next I feel like I'm barely holding on. I'm trying to look at the big picture as much as possible and just be greatful for what I have and for what I have a accomplished over the last year, but sometimes the smallest things can be overwhelming..
Heh Cheeps thanks for the awesome response as always. You are so right about having to be selfish a bit and let the family love me through this. I am very lucky to still have them in my life, that is for sure!! One of my biggest obstacles througout this whole process has been isolating myself,so I'm trying to make a real effort to reach out lately..I have a few questions about liquid tapering, and I'm sure they are both mentioned on here somewhere but sometimes I'm a dumbass and my memory is definitely still shot although getting a little better recently.First if I use alcohol or mouthwash with alcohol In it does it have to be refrigerated? And lastly do I have to take into account bioavailability with a bupe/ alcohol solution as aposed to regular sublingual :deadhorse: roa? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!!
Good people of subsux
Thanks for listening to me ramble, cause sometimes I feel that's all I'm capable of at this point :gaah: T
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:01 pm

If you use mouthwash, vodka, or anything with alcohol....you shouldn't have to refrigerate it BUT...I must go back into the liquid taper archives and check for water only..

I am very impressed with your determination....yes....you have it! You have it in spades and for that....I am very happy.

That fucking dr and practice...all I can say is...it's a damn good thing you are getting away from there....he's close to fucking every one of his patients...all for the money. The asswipe prick :MrT: :MrT: :MrT: :MrT: :thumbdown: Don't tell him shit anymore because in all likelihood....this is what is going to happen next....

You my dear sir are fixing to be axed from his program. You are no longer guaranteed income for them and you will find out in the cruelest way...you might get a letter but more likely....unless you called tomorrow and said, "gee doc, I fucked up...I need my sub and promise NEVER to drop again.", the next time you go...you are history. :suicide:

So now I ask you...do you have enough to make your solution?
10 yrs on methadone
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:02 pm

10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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Re: Subtaper

Postby cheeps » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:12 pm

10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back & Neck surgeries
Oxy free 12/06/14
More surgeries 2016-17
2017 Oxy taper in progress
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