Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

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Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby H8INSUBS » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:17 pm

3 year habit, 10 years alcohol sober (not a drop), post op oxy 5/325's and ohhh boy the love affair was on.

Having nearly died from booze, and having no other DOC's in my system, I was green and gullible as a teenager.

I was smart, I instictively knew that anything that felt THAT good was BAD.

So I started off very very slowly, I'm talking half of a 5 at a time....

120mg/day and three years later, that "I can quit anytime cause I never got hooked on pain pills before" feeling was long, long gone. I even consulted a drug dealer. I had no idea how these things worked. But I was already wd'ing and those backup darvocets were barely keeping me sane. That was the one and only time, I started looking into subs. I read hundreds (now thousands) of reports and found a doc, fought my insurance tooth and nail (they don't cover rehab, but in this case they payed for the oxy's so I got some compensation), and went into the doc, ashamed, humble and ready, but with knowledge too.

I knew that 8 mg induction he was going to give me was way too much, so I bit the pill in half, pocketed the other, then swished like a good little boy as he gave me updates on my 10 minute mark, it was absolutely fucking comical because I already knew he was full of shit, and had my long range suboxone opiate addiction planned out month for month. Including how he was going to spend the money.

That was last September, and after just a couple visits and two 30 refills (8mg), I ran out of time/patience/money or caring, as I was getting my normal prescription legit legal stuff and running through it in a week or less, then detoxing onto sub to hold the fort until the next script. Pain in the ass, you could pin my mood by what day of the month it was.

At first though, like most addicts, I did the "well shit if 1 is good..." routine, and the side effects were ruining me, I'd sleep sitting straight up, on the couch at night, my insides were ruined, I knew I was taking too damn much (24mg) and that more was a waste of money. So after going through all that for like 4-5 months (with no new scripts because I told the sub doc to fuck off), I know faced a dwindling limited supply and that luckily forced me to get into the teensy tiny slivers club.

But then I realized that if a normal person gets .3 mg for pain relief, and I take 3 of those a day, well I'm still opied up and have just prolonged my wd's. Tried it all.

This last month I was down to 2 mg, that's it. Script is out and I got 2 mg subs and fuck all if I go see another sub doc and start this all over again. So I jumped, after two days of 1mg/day.

But it really wasn't that bad, no way near what I went through last year when I'd get the runs just 12 hours after running out, used every trick in the book, had some fioricet as backup, nyquil, lorazepam, Immodium, aminos etc.

That was two weeks ago today, and I just want to give a big FUCK YOU to suboxone because I know the past couple weeks would have been a joyride on subs, but I traded that for some misery, and it's mostly the depression, mind numbing OMG please someone kill me I will pay you for it depression that kills me right now.

And all that while having two children at home to take care of full time. My oldest has been a real life saver in this. She can help take care of the youngest. I'm still there, but not ALL there.

The suckiest part is, nobody, my spouse my family my friends, NOBODY even knows I have a problem, I've faced all of this alone. I don't want to worry my spouse.

Anyways, subs, in my experience, are a quick in quick out deal, I know for big time junkies and lonnnng time users and 1000mg/day oxy habits its not so simple and subs may be a better alternative for now.

But for those with moderate habits, subs are one thing, a short term deal to get you over the oxy withdrawals and bridge you into sub withdrawals, at as minimal a dose as you can, as fast as you can because that shit is SO powerful, that you think dancing out of the sub doc's office that first time it is such a godsend, but read the 1,000's of stories online and you will find very very few that talk longterm effortless weaning.

The docs take what the pharmas say as gospel, that's it's not a problem, just do this and that and wow you are opiate free, so the docs get us hooked help us stay hooked then tell us they aren't rehab docs so other docs make money off of whatever pile of shit you are when the first doc is done.

Trust me I was crying this past two weeks for any relief and subs would have been just fine. Heck I even sported some poppy seeds off the shelf, blech. Now the fioricet is almost out, the lorazepam has been cut back drastically (1mg/day), and I broke my sobriety out of desperation but just a few shots per day, and by that I mean two exactly and not a drop more, and dont' even want it nor miss it, it's been too long and I'm just not a drinker any more.

Thanks for letting me bitch, I felt better today (markably) since doing some DXM (just 2x dose not crazy), and advils and benadryl and every single day I can say FUCK YOU SUBOXONE YOU BITCH YOU ARE NO FRIEND OF MINE.

Glad I found you guys, thanks for listening.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby cheeps » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:14 pm

That was nice writing and I do hope you continue to give the pro-sub drs the finger. Stay mad; it works.

Methadone and Sub are evil...and Drs who don't know the true outcome are evil too...regardless of intention.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby H8INSUBS » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:24 pm

Yes, I broke nearly ten years of sobriety to get over this hump, but unlike past "relapses", I actually dont feel too bad about it, I know its a hump getter-over, I havent done meetings in years, I know that my neurotransmitters are going to make me think the end of the world has come, but I'm just not getting much at all out of those two shots, and only occasionally feel guilty. This is important because the whole beating yourself up part just makes it worse.
Ive learned to cope with life, here and now, as is for a long time without booze, or joining a cult oops I mean AA, not that its bad, just not for me, and I know I can do it again with oxy and I know what the rollercoaster looks like, and there are brighter days ahead. I know that 30-60-90-9 months monster well, and it is real, main thing is to stay healthy, if you are dumping piles of sugar and caffeine and junk in you will get junk out, everytime I wanted to drink that first year I realized I was low sugar and hungry, when I ate, the cravings went away.

Give your bodies those good building blocks so it can heal itself. Youd be surprised how great it is to feel real emotions while completely sober.
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Sub Dr Hippocratic Oath

Postby cheeps » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:44 pm

Hippocratic Oath: Modern Version Sub Drs

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.....Big Pharma said I could.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, especially those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that my quest for riches, false sympathy, and stupidity may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug especially if the drug is buprenorphine.

I will be ashamed to say "I know not," and I will fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's detox and subsequent recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to fuck with a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with a see no evil, hear or speak no evil attitude and awareness of my personal bank account. Above all, I must not play at God....as I AM already God.

I will remember that I do not treat junkies or heavy drinkers, but totally sick fucks, whose addiction may affect their family and economic stability. My only responsibility is doling out drugs according to Big Pharma, if I am to get rich off of my patients.

I won't prevent induction whenever I can, for maintenance is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of Big Pharma's payroll, with no special obligation to all my fellow human beings, those of sound mind and body as well as the infirm....after all....that just means more money in the long haul.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and be remembered with affection thereafter.....well, maybe not. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of fucking over those who seek my help.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby nootlsjr » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:11 am

that was a good one mr cheeps.lol. i took the same oath, horrah for me and f you, but my oath was f myself and f you. its funny how i can get 30 8ml sub with no problem [cash], but would have 5 times the difficulty getting a sao. yes, its the money. how can you openly perscribe a strong lao and be scolded for needing/wanting a safer softer sao. i can be perscribed sub, but not herb.

the problem is, when you buy from pharma, the money and power stay in pharma and taxes, when you buy from the streets, some of that money end up in forign lands. the sub revolt is due to greed and power at the price of the people. they know this wont last, but with a 3/7 year honey moon,lol. thats allot of gained money and power, they probley have the next drug to despense when sub is disqualified and abandend. the super sub of the future. maybe some added steriods for physicle strenth. anyting to screw us up enough to ignore the parasites feeding off our soles.lol.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby nootlsjr » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:04 am

what i was trying to say was i beleive sub to be invented to gain cash from h heads/junkys. the honeymoon enables a junky to suxcessfully make and save money. money that gets put back into the system and not dealers hands and far away lands. the thought of controling a junky with a worse poison to gain economical strenth is understandable, but cocky. why cant they perscribe weed as freely as sub. notice the physicly addicting drugs are legal and the non physicle are not. even alchy has physicle dependancy. they make more money on fines from weed users then they would taxes. alcy still produces plenty of fines.lol.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby H8INSUBS » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:48 am

Sigh, I've got sooo much more to say, I've written a book in my head. While I'd like to just condemn every evil sub doctor in America, the truth is our medical system is predicated on one thing: Find disease, insert drug to cure disease, move on.

We are truly, truly all alone in this regard. Thank God, and I mean God with a capital G, that we have the internet. I can safely say I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours reading every horror story on the net, it's what gets me through the night sometimes, last night like the last couple weeks, I awoke at 4:30 a.m. and that's my allotment for the night. Here is the important part I want people to take away:

Get the fuck out of your sick bed, shower, and do something, I don't care if you don't want to, that's your evil angel side trying to suck you back into despondency, because it wants you to be miserable enough to break and say *%#! it, I want some relief, I'm done with this b.s.

But let me tell you, as someone who detoxed at home, with never a medical supply handy, no lorazepam no nothing, and not by choice, just no options and no insurance, over 15 times from a 1/5+ a day booze habit, there are better days coming. Yes, I kinda got blindsided by this, maybe a bit cocky, figured I had used painkillers before and quite with no problem (even getting mild detox sx after minimal usage), and this time would be different, and at the same time knowing I was kidding myself but all that was for tomorrow, tomorrow.

Oh the let me tell you something part of what I learned kicking booze and all the wonderful mindfuck that goes along with it as our brain chemicals try to lead us back to that temporary relief: It's not "one day at a time", it's sometimes one minute, one hour at a time. Forget all those 30-60-90 chips, I got tons of them and failed miserably to get to one year, but once I did, oh boy the dam burst and led to two years, and by then it was a faint echo. Three years and beyond, you are on cruise control, not cocky, just not caring about that little monster trying to trick you back into the lifestyle.

Whenever I was at that point of wanting to give in, despondent, desperate, not caring, rather die that take one more minute, I started shortening my how long to stay sober time. That was key. Your mind tells you, "fuck, if this is this miserable at this point, imagine what 9 months more of this shit looks like".

Politely tell that part, addict part whatever you want to call it, to fuck off and die, because right here and now, wherever you are at, whatever you are going through, and I've been every tragic life circumstance you can imagine, sober, you are watching the clock and just getting through this minute, this hour and that's ALL YOU CARE ABOUT, PERIOD, FUCK THE CHIP. There's no rewards, there's no atta boys, there's nothing but a chip in your hand and your thoughts. That's number one.

Number two, my best 'trick' if you will, was to say to my spouse, "please go get me the biggest bottle of booze you can find right now, because I need a drink so bad I can't stand it".

She would then ask me what variety I wanted. We would laugh together, and within an hour I would find myself saying, "well glad that is over, for now". Sometimes it helps to face that bitch headon, and talk to someone, don't have to get all psychobabble or go work ten steps or whatever, please, just verbalize it, there is something about doing that to someone else that takes all the power away. "what the hell was I thinking" was always my thought later on, as better times lay ahead in the next hour, next minute. Break this into smaller chunks, forget about the month year or whatever, live in the now to be cliche.

By the time two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and nine years came around, I barely remembered my "birthday". My spouse NEVER forgot. Not once. My kids have NEVER seen me drunk, ever.

And all that's great, until oxy came along. Now I kinda start over from scratch but with a totally different dynamic, because I realize that I did the same, or worse to my brain than I did with booze, with some important distinctions:

Booze permeates every single cell and organ in your body. I know opiates do too insofar as their suppression of systems, but nothing like swimming in alcohol. Opiates are different, not in suffering level, but in the "what is really going on inside the body" angle, for alcohol basically strips every single nutrient you need to survive out of your body, yes I know opies do that to a lesser extent, but with alcohol you could be so deficient as to go into seizures when it leaves the system, in effect you are covering over and masking off some serious serious nutriticional deficiences, which must be addressed immediately following cessation if not sooner.

Instead they tell you to go to a fucking meeting, have coffee and cake and sugar and do the same the next day, because addressing the physical side is beyond their purview and is not allowed and THAT is why I hate AA because they could help so much, so many, by going after these deficiences.

Instead they tell you you have character defects, need to go apologize to a bunch of people and make amends blah blah as if that somehow is going to fix you. That may be necessary, and usually comes naturally as time goes by, face it, we all feel guilty as hell for what we put our peoples through, but for right now, for this day, and this minute, we are desperately in need of assistance because we are literally fighting for our lives and I already lost one young friend to this so I know it's no joke.

Yet all we need is 90 days 90 meetings, so what? So what? What happens then? Well you start that longgg ass haul to six months, and after that, 9 months. And that's where a good portion of people finally kick in the towel, because if all that meeting and talking was required to do 9 months, what's the rest of my life going to look like?

And then paws kicks you right in the teeth, at your worst point, because you just got some fucking chip that means jack shit in the scheme of things. You feel guilty for feeling so bad, you're supposed to be getting better, life is supposed to be humming along now, and here you are, back at week one, fighting tooth and nail.

And that is when the battle weary finally give in because it's just too much.

But we haven't given ourselves the tools and room and nutrition to build up that stuff we've stripped out of our bodies for so many years, we just covered it over with coffee and cake. When our sugar crashes, we suddenly get drinking urges. My urges were my queue to eat, period. Sometimes it was desperation like, "honey please pull over I am crashing and need food RIGHT NOW". I'm not kidding.

After awhile you just instinctively know, if you starve yourself you are going to feel like shit, both body and mind and that is when you are at risk of "relapsing". SO EAT, get off the couch, stop your bitching and just move.

If moving means nothing more that walking to the kitchen and back, then do it. You may find two hours later after you've mopped the floor taken the garbage out whatever, that staying on the couch or bed was a bad idea.


For right now, wherever you are, however bad it is, just move, if you can't move a body move a finger and stay moving, just move. Laying down puts your body into sleep mode, not healing mode.

I speak to myself first so consider this a self lecture. Mirror is up and I am talking to ME. I'm doing better today than yesterday, no question about it. Ran out of nyquil last night and said fuck it, no more. Got my immodiums though don't need them, have 5 fioricets left though they are practically useless, and I'm probably going to stop drinking today too, not sure. I've had 8 drinks in the past 10 years, all in the past week. Got my tryosine, milk thistle and OH, before I forget, one of my tricks during heavy APAP ingestion was NAC 600, highly recommend. That's the stuff they give you at the ER for OD on APAP but the bottle form at GNC or wherever works pretty good too. Give your liver a break because that thing does a TON of stuff for you and you will not have energy without it working properly, that's one thing. Next thing is, your liver is stimulated to action and all kinds of good stuff by walking, the action of walking is good for moving that damn thing around, and trust me there is no losing part of walking. If you lay in bed, and I speak from my heavy detox days, on your right side or whatever, your liver just kinda sits there looking stupid. Get that bitch moving and walking is the key, trust me on that. don't marathon just around the block.

Tell yourself, "I'm going to take this internet poster to task and just walk around the block and that is IT". It is impossible for you to not feel a little better afterwards, I promise.

Break life into small, manageable and micro tiny slivers just like the suboxone. One minute one hour one day and fuck the rest of it because it doesn't even matter, it really doesn't.

Because right now this minute this second is all you HAVE, in your hands, so do it.

Love all you opies.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby Sub zero » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:38 am

Cheeps...sub doctors are like OPEC...a cartel. The only oath they take is that they agree to certain minimum prices they will charge for induction and subsequent visits. They do this to keep prices absurdly high and to make sure no one starts charging less than the others...which would threaten their monopoly.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby Justjules13 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:59 am

Off to walk to dinner...Indian tonight..yummy!
Thanks for the motivation..
As for the meetings...you know what they say "take what you need and throw away the rest"
J
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby H8INSUBS » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:02 pm

Justjules13 wrote:Off to walk to dinner...Indian tonight..yummy!
Thanks for the motivation..
As for the meetings...you know what they say "take what you need and throw away the rest"
J


Haha! Walk away! Walk alot! If you cant walk crawl but just MOVE!

It may appear I am anti or antagonistic towards AA, nothing could be further, and if someone feels they need that to get and stay sober I will drive them, and sit with them and participate, AA got me through some tough times before I understood the biochemical angle of things, I've just never been much of a group cliquer kinda person. The meetings and esp the big jamboree thing they had, I went and so desperately wanted to just hang out and talk to people, but they were all grouped up together, and I sat alone looking stupid.

Thats when I decided that AA was not for me, though their precepts are timeless and applicable to an extent.

At some point though, sobriety becomes (to me), something that only I can value and cherish, family, friends, yhey reach that point and its just your thing to deal with, alone. You have to, at least I do. Learn how to shut off the stupid crap in my head and just deal with life no matter how fucked up it gets, and that is a learned trait, it takes practice. Only my mother even remembers my bday anymore, I rarely do too, its great!

Because my sobriety or lack thereof is no longer the center of the universe.

And from that you get to help others. What a concept, we are so selfish and demanding when using or even when taking those baby steps towards sobriety. And we realize, wow, this isnt all about ME at all!

How refreshing, how liberating. Freedom.
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby cheeps » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:29 pm

You won't really find too many AA/NA lovers here....I really like your posts....MOVE IT!! Like the penguins say, "You got to move it, move it. MOVE IT!! 8-) 8-)
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby H8INSUBS » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:55 pm

Thank you all for the comments, much appreciated after a long night. Think I overdid it on the immodium lol, "any port in a storm" as they say.

I am out of nyquil and forgot to get some right now, am still doing my two shots/day, the fioricet is gone so this is my first day without that.

Generally I am taking a lot less of the cover up drugs, am two weeks solid now and opiate free, and sub free and would give anything for either of the two. Even ran out the bottle of dxm.

So basically Im down to advil, immodium, two shots, and benadryl along with various sundry vits and such, oh and lorazepam but just 1 mg a day, that stuff scares me more than anything.

Two weeks opiate free, still feel like crap, but with some reserves in the tank!

: )
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Your doing great...it's around the two week point that I always cave..so be vigilant. If your just feeling terrible..promise to take a hot bath or watch a funny movie before thinking of opiates. People here swear by lopermide too,if you have to take something,it's better than sub..but I think it can set your WD back too.
Be proud of what you've done!!! And you said you had to do it without your family knowing? Wow...that much have been tough.
It does get better...everyone says so....so hang in there!
J
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby H8INSUBS » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:32 pm

Thank you for the encouragement, been in the tank just trying to make it, but am doing more and doing better, maybe 1% day then minus two the next lol. Fuck opiates oh and I stopped the lope too, everythings fine on that but that stuff was really tearing things up, trying to take less of everything everyday.

:)
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby subster58 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:02 pm

Hello and Welcome. Fucking subs suck, fucking Mds suck and pharm co suck. fuck all of them to hell and back.
good luck with your detox, just keep pushing thru
Tia
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One Hour at a time
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Re: Why I hate subs, sub doctors and pharma

Postby cheeps » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:56 pm

Old thread but this guy had great attitude.
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