Suboxone withdrawal timeline and PAWS timeframe

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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Unhookedfromsub » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:35 pm

Very informative post Cheeps! Real good reading for anyone dealing with this shit.
Stopped taking the evil man-made drug called Subutex 9/17/2012

02/08/15 - 02/14/15 hopefully!
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:32 am

Unhookedfromsub wrote:Very informative post Cheeps! Real good reading for anyone dealing with this shit.


I like to read it myself....a reminder that I don't want to do methadone......fucking EVER AGAIN. I had bad PAWS for 14 months. :evil: :evil: :shred: :shred: :suicide:
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Justjules13 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:14 am

Ugggggggghh, I'm not looking forward to THAT!
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:09 am

Most of the PAWS was physical Jules...the main mental challenge was relearning how to "do" things. My memory was really bad. Like REALLY bad....but I didn't get the chance to taper like you have....you've had smaller amounts of opies for a while now.


Just go slow as shit...that's what Syd did....took her years to come off and she basically walked off.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby ThirdEye » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:18 am

Ooh, did Syd keep a thread, Cheeps? I think that's one I'd like to read!
Mawlana Jalal-al-Din Rumi - "There is a candle in your heart, ready to be kindled.There is a void in your soul, ready to be filled.You feel it, don't you?"
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Justjules13 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:53 pm

Me 2!!!! Do you know where it's located?
J
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby PsychDocMD » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:54 am

cheeps wrote:
Unhookedfromsub wrote:Very informative post Cheeps! Real good reading for anyone dealing with this shit.


I like to read it myself....a reminder that I don't want to do methadone......fucking EVER AGAIN. I had bad PAWS for 14 months. :evil: :evil: :shred: :shred: :suicide:



Did your mental clarity ever completely go back to normal?

I stopped 160mg of methadone CT, and I still have that "foggy brain" feeling over 18 months later. :banghead:

I know you guys dislike me, but I really hope to find some answers.

I'm very strongly considering going back on MMT as soon as I get that Obamacare medicaid in January of next year.

When I take opiates I am so well-spoken and articulate, but without them I feel like a fucking PAWS induced zombie. :banghead: :suicide:
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby PsychDocMD » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 am

My methadone withdrawals were so horrible. I wish the fucking counselor at the clinic would have explained how severe the withdrawals would be before he kept increasing my dosage. If I was ever nervous or sweating he would tell me it looked like I was in mild withdrawals and I needed an increase. :lol:

I didn't sleep for 3 weeks straight, and I had to be hospitalized because I shot my bed with a .357 magnum because I thought someone was hiding in my mattress every night and poking me.

I know it sounds crazy, but I could actually *feel* people poking and prodding me almost everywhere I went. I thought there was a team of spies following me around and poking me so that I would think I was mentally ill. I thought all my family and friends were conspiring against me in this giant conspiracy. Whenever someone would use a cell phone around me in public I thought they were photographing me. My father bought me an alarm clock, and I smashed it on the floor because I thought it contained some kind of bug. :crazy:

From what I read on wikipedia, this sort of thing is fairly common in CT methadone withdrawal.

Thankfully I completely came back to reality, but I still feel very sponge-brained and I'm completely lacking in zest for life or motivation.
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:14 am

Hey liar...look up "physopath" on Wikipedia...bet your fat face is the first picture!
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby PsychDocMD » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:09 am

Justjules13 wrote:Hey liar...look up "physopath" on Wikipedia...bet your fat face is the first picture!
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Catfish » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:45 pm

PsychDocMD wrote:My methadone withdrawals were so horrible. I wish the fucking counselor at the clinic would have explained how severe the withdrawals would be before he kept increasing my dosage. If I was ever nervous or sweating he would tell me it looked like I was in mild withdrawals and I needed an increase. :lol:

I didn't sleep for 3 weeks straight, and I had to be hospitalized because I shot my bed with a .357 magnum because I thought someone was hiding in my mattress every night and poking me.

I know it sounds crazy, but I could actually *feel* people poking and prodding me almost everywhere I went. I thought there was a team of spies following me around and poking me so that I would think I was mentally ill. I thought all my family and friends were conspiring against me in this giant conspiracy. Whenever someone would use a cell phone around me in public I thought they were photographing me. My father bought me an alarm clock, and I smashed it on the floor because I thought it contained some kind of bug. :crazy:

From what I read on wikipedia, this sort of thing is fairly common in CT methadone withdrawal.

Thankfully I completely came back to reality, but I still feel very sponge-brained and I'm completely lacking in zest for life or motivation.


I feel the same way, Doctor.

I hope we figure out how to sharpen our minds!
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby snwboardr9876 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:56 pm

Lol dude really?

At least you provide some comical relief!

It's people like you that are the cause of us losing our guns.

Go hop on that obamacare so I can pay for you to get some help!
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:12 pm

LOL...I bumped this thread and I don't know why Catfish/PsyDoc shows up today.....as he has been banned. It's tempting to edit his bullshit but if you've never met a narcissist..now you have!
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Nopiods » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:24 pm

Its pretty funny that he is talking to himself. Gave me a little chuckle tonight.
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:23 am

What? How the hell did he get back in? Maybe we could throw him in WZ lock down for comic relief...and occasional target practice... :twisted:
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby LDP » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:45 pm

cheeps wrote:Acute and Post-Acute Withdrawal

When a person takes mood-altering chemicals over a period of time,
neurotransmitters can become disregulated or depleted. Users can experience this
disregulation or depletion as a sour or dysphoric mood.

After the use of mood-altering chemicals is stopped, and the conditions for
healing are in place, the brain begins a period of physiological and biological
readjustment. This readjustment process is essentially a healing of neurochemical
disregulation produced by the drug and/or alcohol use. While this process is underway –
and until it is complete – the recovering person will likely experience their neurochemical
deficits as unpleasant moods and/or difficulties in thinking or focusing.

The withdrawal syndrome (a syndrome is a group of symptoms that usually occur
together) from any substance of abuse has two stages – Acute Withdrawal and Post-Acute
Withdrawal. Though the acute phase of withdrawal is usually over relatively quickly -
the post-acute phase, depending on the drug or drugs abused, and the severity and length
of the abuse, can last up to eighteen months.


Acute Withdrawal

During the first few days after substance use has stopped, the user can feel
distressing and uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms. With some substances (like
barbiturates and benzodiazepines – and, in extreme cases, alcohol) withdrawal actually
can be life threatening. Withdrawal symptoms can vary according to the amount,
frequency, length of use and type of substance that was used.

The pattern of using increasingly larger doses of opiates often continues until the
user either chooses or is forced to stop using opiate drugs. It is only then that they
experience the deficit in endorphin and enkephalin levels and the dearth of opioid
receptor sites as the classic opiate withdrawal syndrome. Symptoms include insomnia,
restlessness, depression, muscle cramps and diarrhea. The abrupt cessation of opiates in
dependent subjects results in overstimulation of a part of the brain called the locus
ceruleus (LC) which functions to evaluate and respond to pain, reward, panic and
anxiety. Overstimulation of the LC is believed to be responsible for the typical signs and
symptoms of opioid withdrawal, such as anxiety, hyperactivity and tachycardia. Other
opiate withdrawal symptoms are teary eyes, runny nose, yawning and gooseflesh.
Symptoms usually last 7-8 days for most opiates. Methadone and buprinophine,
synthetic opioids are the exception; possibly due to their long half-life in the body,
withdrawal symptomology for these drugs can last a month or longer.


Post-Acute Withdrawal

After the acute phase of withdrawal is over, the more-lengthy post-acute phase of
withdrawal begins. At the conclusion of the acute phase, levels of neurotransmitters
affected by substance use have rebounded to about 80% of their pre-use levels. And,
though the newly recovering person is feeling more comfortable and thinking more
clearly, a lingering sub-clinical dysphoria reminds them that the healing process is not yet
complete.

For opiate users, the post-acute period is characterized by gradual normalization
of sleep patterns and a lessening of anxiety. A slow, steady improvement in symptoms
can be expected for about a year or so. In cases of heavy and chronic opiate addictions,
however, it may take several months for normal sleep patterns to be re-established. Also,
in the post-acute withdrawal phase, the newly recovering opiate user will probably
experience a slightly elevated pain response and some heightened restlessness.


And best of all:

Quote:
Speeding-Up the Process

Anyone experiencing post-acute withdrawal from any substance of abuse would
be well advised to cultivate and practice patience, acceptance and perseverance. As long
as the recovering person maintains the conditions of healing (total abstinence from all
mood-altering chemicals – except those prescribed by an informed physician) the
process is inexorable – it will go forward on its own.

However, if person wants to speed the process a bit, this is possible. The keys to
doing this are diet and exercise. To ensure that our bodies have the building-blocks
necessary to rebuild depleted neurotransmitters, it is important to eat foods that are rich in
the amino acids that are the chemical precursors of neurotransmitters such as dopamine,
norepinephrine, serotonin and endorphins.

The amino acids most helpful in the process of rebuilding depleted
neurotransmitters are tryptophan and tyrosine. Foods like turkey, other lean meats, green
leafy vegetables and dairy products are rich in these amino acids. The more often one
make the choice to eat healthy, fresh foods, the more quickly brain chemistry will attain
8pre-use levels – and the recovering person will feel better and think more clearly.

Moderate, regular exercise speeds the process even more. Now the major job is
guarding and maintaining the recovery process by continuing to access sober support and
not entertaining the attitudes and behavior that can eventually lead to relapse.

Maintaining good physical and emotional health allows a person to develop a lifestyle
conducive to supporting continued recovery. Although the most difficult “start-up”
period is now over, continued hard work is needed to maintain and further improve the
quality of life.

AK...Cheeps sent me this link along time ago...i was in a fog the ...this is real data....and its shows us where an wat going on .....lexy
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby LDP » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:05 pm

cheeps wrote:Acute and Post-Acute Withdrawal

When a person takes mood-altering chemicals over a period of time,
neurotransmitters can become disregulated or depleted. Users can experience this
disregulation or depletion as a sour or dysphoric mood.

After the use of mood-altering chemicals is stopped, and the conditions for
healing are in place, the brain begins a period of physiological and biological
readjustment. This readjustment process is essentially a healing of neurochemical
disregulation produced by the drug and/or alcohol use. While this process is underway –
and until it is complete – the recovering person will likely experience their neurochemical
deficits as unpleasant moods and/or difficulties in thinking or focusing.

The withdrawal syndrome (a syndrome is a group of symptoms that usually occur
together) from any substance of abuse has two stages – Acute Withdrawal and Post-Acute
Withdrawal. Though the acute phase of withdrawal is usually over relatively quickly -
the post-acute phase, depending on the drug or drugs abused, and the severity and length
of the abuse, can last up to eighteen months.


Acute Withdrawal

During the first few days after substance use has stopped, the user can feel
distressing and uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms. With some substances (like
barbiturates and benzodiazepines – and, in extreme cases, alcohol) withdrawal actually
can be life threatening. Withdrawal symptoms can vary according to the amount,
frequency, length of use and type of substance that was used.

The pattern of using increasingly larger doses of opiates often continues until the
user either chooses or is forced to stop using opiate drugs. It is only then that they
experience the deficit in endorphin and enkephalin levels and the dearth of opioid
receptor sites as the classic opiate withdrawal syndrome. Symptoms include insomnia,
restlessness, depression, muscle cramps and diarrhea. The abrupt cessation of opiates in
dependent subjects results in overstimulation of a part of the brain called the locus
ceruleus (LC) which functions to evaluate and respond to pain, reward, panic and
anxiety. Overstimulation of the LC is believed to be responsible for the typical signs and
symptoms of opioid withdrawal, such as anxiety, hyperactivity and tachycardia. Other
opiate withdrawal symptoms are teary eyes, runny nose, yawning and gooseflesh.
Symptoms usually last 7-8 days for most opiates. Methadone and buprinophine,
synthetic opioids are the exception; possibly due to their long half-life in the body,
withdrawal symptomology for these drugs can last a month or longer.


Post-Acute Withdrawal

After the acute phase of withdrawal is over, the more-lengthy post-acute phase of
withdrawal begins. At the conclusion of the acute phase, levels of neurotransmitters
affected by substance use have rebounded to about 80% of their pre-use levels. And,
though the newly recovering person is feeling more comfortable and thinking more
clearly, a lingering sub-clinical dysphoria reminds them that the healing process is not yet
complete.

For opiate users, the post-acute period is characterized by gradual normalization
of sleep patterns and a lessening of anxiety. A slow, steady improvement in symptoms
can be expected for about a year or so. In cases of heavy and chronic opiate addictions,
however, it may take several months for normal sleep patterns to be re-established. Also,
in the post-acute withdrawal phase, the newly recovering opiate user will probably
experience a slightly elevated pain response and some heightened restlessness.


And best of all:

Quote:
Speeding-Up the Process

Anyone experiencing post-acute withdrawal from any substance of abuse would
be well advised to cultivate and practice patience, acceptance and perseverance. As long
as the recovering person maintains the conditions of healing (total abstinence from all
mood-altering chemicals – except those prescribed by an informed physician) the
process is inexorable – it will go forward on its own.

However, if person wants to speed the process a bit, this is possible. The keys to
doing this are diet and exercise. To ensure that our bodies have the building-blocks
necessary to rebuild depleted neurotransmitters, it is important to eat foods that are rich in
the amino acids that are the chemical precursors of neurotransmitters such as dopamine,
norepinephrine, serotonin and endorphins.

The amino acids most helpful in the process of rebuilding depleted
neurotransmitters are tryptophan and tyrosine. Foods like turkey, other lean meats, green
leafy vegetables and dairy products are rich in these amino acids. The more often one
make the choice to eat healthy, fresh foods, the more quickly brain chemistry will attain
8pre-use levels – and the recovering person will feel better and think more clearly.

Moderate, regular exercise speeds the process even more. Now the major job is
guarding and maintaining the recovery process by continuing to access sober support and
not entertaining the attitudes and behavior that can eventually lead to relapse.

Maintaining good physical and emotional health allows a person to develop a lifestyle
conducive to supporting continued recovery. Although the most difficult “start-up”
period is now over, continued hard work is needed to maintain and further improve the
quality of life.

AK take a look at this Lex
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby LDP » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:26 pm

Hey....i sent this to you by this accident scroll its a post from cheeps from real data.....week 6 tommorow hang in ther and post to me at subplaged at any time or maybe is wasnt by accident LDP
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Whoa boy!
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
Victor Kiam
Pills and IV Morphine- 1985-1999
Methadone maintenance- 1999-May 23,2011 (140mg, tapering to 10 mg)
Suboxone-slow taper to zero, very minimal WD (jump date 12/9/14)
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Re: Acute and More PAWS timeframe

Postby Nopiods » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:15 pm

Lol. Just reread this today, as this was the worst day I've had in weeks. Just so fucking tired. No motivation to do anything, haven't felt this in lazy probably since the first week. Could be a few things, long hours at work, lack of sleep again, both, or worse PAWS. I'm hoping it's not the latter, either way I'll beat this down again.
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