Desperatly need help with PAWS

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Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Joe65 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:07 pm

Hi, I'm wondering if you can give me some hope here. I was on suboxone for about a year. I never got higher then 3 mg. I basically took my life away. I lost all my friends, my marriage is falling apart and I couldn't think straight or remember anything. 25 days ago I quit at 1.5mg. I know that was a high dose, but I couldn't stand what it was doing to my life. So after the first week of hell. I started to feel a little better, but now I am suffering from PAWS badly. I have no energy, like zero. I have been forcing myself to get some kind of exercise daily, eat healthy, taking l-tyrosine b6, b12, 5-htp, and tons of other vitamins and supplements. I am 63 years old and work a full time job. I really don't want to go back on suboxone, but I can't tolerate the feelings I have. I feel like I have opiate wd, but the worst is the lack of energy. Do You have any suggestions? How long is this going to last is my main concern. I can't take off any more days of work. I appreciate any help. Thank you
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Eyedotz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:25 pm

Hey Joe,
Welcome to the forum man...All I can tell you is that you are well on your way. You will start to feel better man. It is a VERY slow go and it seems like what you're experiencing is typical. From my experience and being in the 'realm' of tapering/jumping people so long, it seems like 90 days is usually the hump you need to get over and everything will start getting better. Being around 30 days seems to be the toughest... your body is going through a lot right now and please be patient. It does not last forever but you have to take it one day at a time. I was on subs for 13 years and I've been off for almost 10 months. I feel perfectly fine. You can do this!

I know you said you take b12 but have you tried 5 hour energys? They are super high in B6/B12 and were a must have for me while tapering/post jump. If you take one in the morning.... it will easily get you through a work day. Another thing I suggest is keeping headphones on ALL the time. Listen to your favorite music constantly...listen to genres you've never listened to. Shit really gets your endorphins going again.

Dude, it is a difficult thing but 25 days off subs is not nothing. You should be very proud of yourself. So many people just so get tired of being exhausted all the time, they cave and go back on it. It will only restart the cycle again. Please hang in here. The people here are an excellent support and it kind of like a little dysfunctional family....we are always happy to help. It helps to read all these wonderful threads. Please remember that you are not alone in this. We get it. We are always here for a bit of encouragement! Talk about how you're feeling here... it always make you feel better.
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JUMP DATE MARCH 18th, 2016

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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby cheeps » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:33 pm

There you are!!!!


Everyone say hello to Joe's wife! She has been talking to me via PM because on another forum she got some crap...imagine that! We may be uncouth, vulgar, and cynical....but I think we know when someone needs help and not a come-on.

Her issue is how to re-energize. Good news is she's in shape for being an old bat. Crap news is that she's a nurse, has taken time off from work....but lack of energy and motivation is getting her down.

I told her to start a thread so we could get in some whistles and cat calls and help her on the journey out of hell.

We've had many nurses here JW...diet doc is our latest medical person.

Welcome to SS...sorry you had to find us but glad you are here.
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby CheeZeeAnnDee » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:04 am

Hello Joe's wife!

Congrats on getting off subs. I haven't jumped yet, but I have read a lot of threads, and from what I've seen, you are so close to seeing some serious improvements.

How are you sleeping?
All you have is your fire
And the place you need to reach
Don't you ever tame your demons
But always keep them on a leash

Hozier-Arsonist's Lullabye

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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby The Blind Ass » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:50 pm

Hey Joe65, just letting you know I jumped roughly a month ago from about 2mg and posted about it in the general forum. Luckily I did not have to work - but currently I am remodeling a home which takes some energy and my muscles are feeling it... being active mentally and physically, sleep, eating, and using the restroom and hydration ... and staying warm are my priorities.
There is great advise on this site and alot of experience so read up and educate and please stay and write write write. If you keep staying strong it will eventually let up - 100 % , but it takes time obviously. Ill be rooting for you and keeping an eye on your thread. Let us know how your doing in terms of eating and sleeping - 2 of the biggest factors in having energy during withdrawals I have found are those.
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Joe65 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:01 am

Hi everyone and thank you for all your kind words and support ! ( with the exception of cheeps calling me an old bat) lol. I'm not to computer savvy and have been trying to find this thread It took me alot of trying but thankfully I found it. Just to give you an update of how I am doing. The good news is I have been sub free for 29 days. The bad news is I can barely function. But I have to. I am a nurse and I work full time. I can't take any more days off because I am down 2 nurses and have no one to cover for me. I have a very unique job. I have been with the same patient for 22 years. his mother remarried and 12 years ago relocated to another state. The choice at the time was to put him in a nursing home or figure something else out. I spent so much time with him he was like my own kid. It was a no brainier for me, I was not going to let his mother put him in a nursing home. He had just turned 30, and of course being the awesome guy he was well, I spoiled him rotten lol. Being in a nursing home, he would just curl up and give up on life. That's what i thought anyway. So my husband and I built an apartment in our house and sort of adopted him.
With that being said, I have to manage a 24 hour nursing case with no help from the 2 agencies that pay for the nursing. The pay rate sucks, so it's hard to get nurses. a few months ago I had to let go a nurse that was working with him for over 15 years because she was treating him terribly. Then another nurse at the same time got a higher degree so I lost another one. I hope I haven't bored you with all this, I just wanted you to know my circumstances. I just don't know how I am going to be able to do it, but I have no choice.
I have been eating healthy, forcing myself to get to the gym at least every other day, although I can't do very much. Before i stopped subs I was doing boot camp and weight lifting classes 5-7 days a week. now I can barely walk on the treadmill at a slow pace. I am taking tons of amino acids. I am reading a book called end your addiction now By Dr Gant. It tells you what to take to get your brain to start producing all the chemicals that doing subs stopped making on it's own. Like endorphins, dopamine norepinephrine and help to get the neurotransmitters working again. but it is going to take who know how long to start working. I woke up at 3:30 this morning because I still can't sleep good, and started crying, because i just don't know how I am going to do this ! I got so desperate I almost caved and took a piece of sub ! But after crying out to God, to help me I was able to put them away and say no I'm not doing that to myself. I have come too far. Oh and btw the reason I haven't flushed them, is because my husband is still taking them. I use to give him his doses because he has no control and takes too much and becomes very aggressive. When I stopped I gave them to him but I couldn't deal with his behavior, so I had to take them back and give him his doses daily. My counselor told me not to do that, but she doesn't have to live with him. Anyway he is retired and I need him to help me. He can do chores and help a little with my job. Anyway I pray I can make it through today.
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby The Blind Ass » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:05 am

To endure oneself is the mightiest task in the universe. But your already 29 days in and I see have a sense of Duty. That is all excellent - give yourself some praise for not running and restarting the whole thing all over.
I promise all the bad stuff will lessen just like the way winter melts away into spring and then summer. I am on day 31 myself - or right around there. I'll do anything not to be stuck on fiending/craving - because the mind is too great a gift to waste.

How are you eating? Please do tell. Also what if any meds are you currently using if any? Also what sanctuary do you have ? A metaphysical post to tie yourself to and cover your ears when the Siren Song plays - like Odysseus did in the Odyssey. I understand your desperation I too had a moment a couple days ago where the thought came into my mind after a rough night like - ahhh wouldn't a little sub release me from these physical restraints we call withdrawal symptoms? We all know better though - that is a half truth, the whole truth elucidates the other halfs shortcoming and disastrous repercussions for those in our position. We must endure because it our duty, our responsibility. I just remind myself every now and again that so long as no narcotic enters my body it can never harm me again, also that abstinence is a non-action and simply requires relaxing into whatever situation we may find ourself in.

I want to know how you are eating! What are you eating! How much? What meds or supplaments etc. Do you have any one to talk to about this besides this forum that you earnestly trust with good faith?

If praying helps you than pray and pray and pray like its your mantra. Remember what Christ said to his apostles during the midst of the storm when they were out at sea and they were all freaking out?

In less than holy words while mixing in another proverb, he said - Chill Out you fools! Regardless of the situation, the lillies toil not and our lord takes care of them all - for they take care of themselves!.
Nature and its organisms such as Man & Woman are so resilient it puts me into a state of awe for a moment when it dawns on me what our species has gone through and goes through on a daily basis.

Eat when hungry, shit when full, sleep when tired, chop wood, carry water.

Rooting for you!
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby The Blind Ass » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:18 am

Here was my "prayer" during the bad times...its called the Litany Against Fear:

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


― Frank Herbert, Dune.
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Joe65 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:22 pm

Thank you BA for your words of encouragement. I am eating three healthy meals a day and drinking 2 protein shakes to make sure I get alot of protein. I have 800mg of gabapentin that helped alot in the beginning. I also have clonadine, but neither of those two seem to be helping me. I have always had insomnia, and after 3 sleep study's they finally put me on .5mg of Klonapin. which did absolutely nothing to help me sleep in the beginning. Now I am able to sleep about 5 hours 6 if i am lucky lol. The worst part is I have zero energy, and I HAVE to work. I tried to force myself to go to the gym today and at least try and walk on the treadmill for a half hour. I got there and sat in my car for 10 minutes and turned around and went home. I just couldn't do it. I wish it wasn't so cold outside. I would love to take a walk and put my face in the sun. But it's winter by me, so that's not possible. I listed the supplements I'm taking above, but I only started l tyrosine and b6 a week ago. I only got the other ones yesterday, so I started them today. I have been seeing an alternative medicine MD for about 10 years now, so I have been taking alot of other supplements all along, and have always ate healthy But they don't seem to help my brain start making what the subs stop it from making. That's why I am feeling so crappy and have no energy. Ok that's it for now, gotta take my 2nd round of aminos. I can't believe how many pills I have to swallow ! I usually take my vitamins and supplements with my oatmeal in the am because I gag on them. Funny how I never complained when it was a pill to get me high...
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby cheeps » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:10 pm

Girlie...make sure you are still drinking a shit ton of good water....keep flushing those toxins out.

If you took a damn crumb of sub right now.....you'd love it but turn around and be soooo fucking mad and disgusted at yourself. I'm really glad you don't work in the ER or in the chop shop. At least you are home...if your house and son get neglected a little bit...well damn it, that is life. You cannot attain perfection right now....but pretty soon you will start to see some relief.

The most important thing I can think to tell you is to be KIND and GENTLE to yourself right now. Sometimes when you stress heavily over frustrations....it causes you to have a worse day and those fucking intrusive thoughts come crowding in....everything from, "one teensy crumb won't hurt" to "fuck this shit, no one appreciates me, I'm tired of this crap...it's not worth it."

The mental starts to wear you down....but that's why you can come here and vent...because we know how it is. As far as sleep...you don't have OSA do you?
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby cheeps » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:14 pm

Oh yes....at the bottom of this page you will find " subscribe to this topic" link. It throws an email to the address you registered with...so you can click on that and it will take you straight here. Also...in the middle of the front page, you will see where it's sez "view active topics" this is very useful to click on because it lets you see which threads are being posted in for the last seven days. Helps you see where the other peeps here are bitching, whining, complaining, or otherwise telling shitty jokes...etc.


And...if you click on the teensy box next to a persons ID that has posted in an active thread...it takes you to the very last post in the thread. :cheers:
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby The Blind Ass » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:18 am

Joe's Wife! Let us know how your doing.
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:04 pm

I hope she's out walking even if it's just around the house or to the store......keep pushing girl!
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Joe65 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:32 pm

Hi, Everyone, thank you for your concerns. I have been dreaded coming back her, although I knew I need to.
I feel like such a failure :( I just couldn't deal with the way i felt yesterday, and was forced to work. So I caved and took .5 mg of sub :(. The minute I took it I felt the guilt and remorse. And I have no intention of ever doing it again. I hope The amino acids I am taking start to help soon, because I just don't know what to do ! I mean I was really trying, and was suffering badly. Maybe because I'm older it is affecting me more, or the fact that I just can't just rest when I need to.I have to work. I'm reading this book called End your addiction, and following the nutritional supplements to a T. But I just started taking them and it takes time for them to work.
The good part was that i couldn't stand the way I felt. I was right back to not thinking clear, forgetting what I went into a room for not wanting to talk to anyone. I even think that although I jumped at 1.5mg, .5mg was way too strong. I couldn't sleep for nothing last night. But I did get my energy back long enough to take a shower do my hair and get my nails done and even a pedicure. But I am so depressed ! Like I don't ever get this way, I just want to hide in my room. I'm so mad that I had to work last night. I feel that if I didn't I could have just layed in bed and toughed it out. To top it off, the reason i couldn't get off was because the only nurse that could cover for me, who I really have been helping out. ( like after only working here a month his car died and I lent him $2,000 to get a car) Among alot of other things.I found out has been lying to me. Which really hurt me. Sometimes I feel like I'm just too nice and people take advantage of me. This certainly was the case with him. Well for today I don't feel bad bc the sub is still in me. Tomorrow is a new day and I will continue to stay sub free. I pray the Lord helps me..
I'm sorry to let you guys down :(
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby The Blind Ass » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:48 pm

Dont give up, just dont give up. One slip, but you can catch yourself. Lest the whole thing repeats itself.

I have been very sad today myself. My grandfather is in another country dying and my mother left yesterday to be with him for a week and I am at home with my father... and I just wanted to say " Let me go with you" but because of my condition and the slow build up of trust and the risks of being unwell in a foreign country are great I stayed, and was asked to stay home - knowing I may never get a chance to see the father of my mother again.

Dont forget the pain. Wretched thing I have done to myself - but more so to others... where was their son, their brother, their friend, their nephew, their cousin, where was I those last 10 years? On the hunt for oblivion, or in the womb of a deep depression or sick and detoxing - or chasing an illusory feeling of pleasure - only looking to release myself from my own pain like a spoiled brat. Thats just not going to cut it anymore. I hope you keep coming back even if its just to say just how your rough day went. May I just state it ...all my insolence I now pay for- it wont kill me but it hurts like hell.

What is your plan of action as of now?
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Don_Pisto » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:41 pm

Hello,

It's good you came back after the slip. You already beat yourself up enough already, but if you're serious about getting off this evil drug, you need to shitcan any and all spare subs you have. You just can't have that stuff lying around. Pick yourself up and march on. One day at a time.
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby The Blind Ass » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:44 pm

Thats generally the rule right? But Joe's Wife said her husband takes subs too and thats why she hasnt throw them out because she dolls them out to him or something... Makes my head hurt thinking about trying to manage something like that while detoxing. Joe's Wife can you not have him take control of his own meds and put them in a lock box?
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby cheeps » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:46 pm

You are certainly not the first person to slip and you won't be the last. One thing I really like is your strength to come back here and post. We try really hard not to judge...cuz we've done the same. I told you you'd feel like shit if you did and the guilt can freeze you but... because you do have hope and you do have the mind to do this...you will. :D :crazy: :P

Most peeps do find that the little crumb that got taken is so powerful...it's frightening. I can tell that you don't want that fucking crumb to have that kind of power over you. If you don't already, you will soon hate the damn shit. That's a good thing because it is poison. You may experience some acute WDs but....it will go away. If you have to, get out the Imodium and triple the dose to get thru it. Just make sure you don't get stopped up. I'd use it every other day and I took stool softeners with food. It takes a few hours to kick in but you can use it for a week safely if you make sure you poop.

Do you have anything to help you sleep?

That's a bitch about the other guy so from this point on....get a backbone and tell the soul suckers to back off. This is part of being good to yourself during detox. We advise people to hold off making ANY type of big decisions for six months after detox...so if someone hits you up again tell them you are under an oath to say....NO, I can't do that right now.

You haven't disappointed us...you've just had to learn something the hard way. We have all done that...we are human after all. That's what got us here. :punchballs:


Don pisto...good to see you! She has to administer the shit to a family member. Maybe she can come up with a solution to that madness. It makes me think of ole tattoo Tommy...he used to keep his in the vault at his bank! :lol:
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Don_Pisto » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:22 pm

sorry, i didn't see that about the other family member. that's a tough one. that's kind of how i got in my mess by stealing pain pills from my wife and when i got serious about tapering, we bought a safe and i told her to lock them up in the safe and never give me the combo. i have zero temptations to ever go back, but i have my wife still lock them up. hopefully someone in a similar past situation who succeeded can offer their insight

cheeps, you still giving people hell here? i was scared to death to get on your bad side when i was tapering and it served me well
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Re: Desperatly need help with PAWS

Postby Joe65 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:07 pm

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support. BA I'm so sorry you are going through such pain... These substances we put into our bodies took away so much of what we could have been or had.
Cheeps is right, I do have to dish my husbands out to him to help hm cut down so he can eventually quit. I tried to let him control it on his own, but he can't and he knows it. This crap makes him crazy, when he takes even 3-4mg and I can't live with it. So unfortunately I have to hold it. I really don't know how people can take such high doses. I couldn't either. I only tried 3 or 4 mg and it was way too high for me too. Cheeps do you think my wds are going to get worse bc i took that one dose? I sure hope not. The main problem I was having was zero energy. With working and managing my patients case it's almost impossible. I really thought I would be doing better by now.
I was on subs once before for not much less of a time, but I jumped at .25mg. I think my brain started making some of the neurotransmitters that I am missing now back then. Because I didn't feel so weak. That was only 3 years ago. I jumped at 1.5mg this time.
I am still going to go with my plan as if I didn't slip. I just pray these amino acids I'm taking help me soon !
Last edited by Joe65 on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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