Family needs help

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Family needs help

Postby singlma » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:50 am

All, I joined the board yesterday in hopes of finding some ways to help my wife and my family to gain a little understanding of what's next. Five years ago my wife was in rehab for a prescription pill problem. She was taking large amounts of Lyrica at the time. She also had started writing scripts to the pharmacies, I was unaware at the time. She got caught and was charged, we got the charges suspended, but she had to serve probation and complete re-hab. She wanted to get out of the cycle and did very well in re-hab. I held the family together during this dark time and we all loved each other more when it was done.
Lisa returned home and things were great for a while, she was a changed person. I was very guarded of her because I knew that it was a delicate situation. She had learned of suboxone while in the re-hab. After a visit from her mother she started taking it without my knowledge. Her Mother introduced her to emotional pain and drugs at a young age. Her mother is a major trigger that we still deal with today. We live in Missouri and fortunately for this family her Mother is in Nevada. Lisa recently stopped taking the poison after five years. The no good SOB drug pusher also known as her doctor had her dosing 24 mg a day. She did not even have a narcotic issue. She has never took any street narcs at all.
Well today we are 30 days into her stop date if she is indeed not still hiding the truth. She is very paranoid and will not sleep for more than a couple of hours a day. She accuses me of all kinds of electronic surveillance. I have been unable to concentrate on anything other than her. She cries, she prays, she seems normal and then bam out of nowhere she hits me with another accusation. I am strong but I can feel that I am getting weaker by the day. She continues to take Klonipin sporadically.
I do not trust the medical establishment and was wondering is this paranoia normal this far into the detox? This all started about three weeks ago and seems to be building each and every day. What can I do to stop this suffering. I am afraid to leave her alone, she has not said that she wants to hurt anyone but she is not making good decisions. I need help to understand and hopefully soften her suffering.
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Re: Family needs help

Postby singlma » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:47 am

Update: After a morning of wading thru her accusations and listening to her ramble on about how I am impacting her electronics, she now tells me that less than a week ago she to a 8mg strip. She said that she found it in her purse and took it during weakness. I have no idea if I am hearing the truth or she is telling me what I want to hear. Bottom line is she is not thinking correctly and the whole family is under assault by this evil poison.
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Re: Family needs help

Postby syd » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:28 pm

Thank you for starting your own thread.

Going from 24mg to 0 in one month, is highly discouraged. Sub is not like other opiates. It has something called a stacking effect. It builds and builds and takes a VERY long time to completely leave your body. Lisa is not going to be over it for some time.

The absolute worst effect of withdrawing from sub is the lack of sleep. Many go weeks with only a couple hours sleep a week. As you can imagine, this will eventually make you a little crazy. But...No one here has ever reported paranoia from sub withdrawal/lack of sleep. This is sounding more like something one would experience from poly drug use/discontinuation.

Did Lisa abruptly discontinue the Lyrica or is she still taking it? Same thing with Klonipin. It cannot be stopped abruptly and Must be tapered. If Lisa has been taking Klonipin on a regular basis and decided to vary from that, she could be experiencing Benzo withdrawal on top of sub withdrawal. The Benzo withdrawal is WAY more likely to cause the intense paranoia that you spoke of.

Just read your last post. It's not unheard of finding a sub after detox and taking it. If the one is all she has taken I wouldnt worry about it. Can you trust her to be telling you the truth about whatever else and how much of that she is taking, is the question.

Have you considered getting her in to a good therapist? It sounds like she could use some help in dealing with her issues concerning her mother, since that was the trigger that got her started on opiates to begin with.
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Re: Family needs help

Postby singlma » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:16 pm

Thanks, SYD for your reply. Lisa has not had Lyrica in several years. To my knowledge that is the only drug she really abused. All the other medications she seems to take as directed. Lyrica was the devil with her, she doctor shopped and really took way too much, this is what landed her in trouble and went to rehab for. Lisa is now taking Klonipin .05 three times a day. I checked her pill bottle this morning and she has take just a little less than prescribed MTD. I suppose the lack of sleep could be causing some of the paranoia, I can tell that she is miserable. If only she could get some rest, some of these symptoms might lessen. She is also complaining of physical pain throughout her body. This kind of scares me because I know that it is a trigger. Good news though she re-confirmed her position on quitting this morning.
I have for myself been unable to work for almost a month now because of the chaos. I am looking at retiring early. One of the problems has been it has been just to easy to get the medications and hide it from me. I have a job that pays well along with good insurance. Praise God that she now has hit the bottom and wants to break the cycle. I try to hold out and give all the support that I can, this is so hard on me and the family.
Lisa basically did taper in a 30 day period from 24mg to 0. Of course the doctor got her on the Klonipin about two years ago the first time she mentioned getting off suboxone. She hid the Klonipin from me until fairly recently. I discovered some pharmacy paperwork in the car and confronted her, she did not deny.
Now I wonder at what point should she start thinking about a taper for Klonipin. I hate the fact that doctors are doing this type of harm to their patients. Lisa has two real big triggers, 1)pain and 2) her mother. As for the pain she appears to be a very able bodied person. She does care about her health and even works out. I kind of think that she uses it to lie to herself, you know part of her cycle. Now her mother on the other hand is horrible. She has been a pill popper for a long time. Earlier this week she was talking to her mother about how she felt, and her mother told her that she would mail her some oxy's. This lady continues to drag her back into the cycle each time she has a chance to heal. To Lisa's credit she scolded her mom for trying send her pills while she is recovering not only because it is wrong but also Illegal. Lisa has the right stuff to get thru this, me I am struggling. I have devoted so much time to this issue the past five years, been thru the lies, the scares, I am not as strong as I once was. I love her but it too seems to be waning as of late. I keep telling myself that its the drugs and not her, and I hate that I let doubt creep in.
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Re: Family needs help

Postby Poncho » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:44 pm

That's a tough situation. One thing you should see if she jumped cold turkey off of 24 mil of sub is she should be in severe WD, cold sweats, no sleep, no appetite ect. This could include these hallucinations you're talking about. It will get better but it's a long process stretching 6 mos to a year before she's really feeling like herself again. If she's cheating and taking something to feel better she's only prolonging the agony.
It's great if you can hang in there for her but it won't be easy. Wish you the best.
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Re: Family needs help

Postby syd » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:40 pm

Dont even entertain thoughts of the klonipin right now. Benzo withdrawals are no joke. Nothing like opiate w/d.

They have to be tapered even more slowly than Sub. Seizures are a very real possibility. For now, make sure she stays at whatever her prescribed dose. Skipping days can put her in withdrawal.

Read some threads in the benzo forum and you will get a better understanding, from ppl that have been there and what you are up against.

viewforum.php?f=7

And from wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiaz ... l_syndrome
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Re: Family needs help

Postby singlma » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:53 pm

Thanks for all the tips and comments! Update she now informs me that she quit taking Prozac 4 days ago cold turkey. This may help to explain some of her paranoia. God I know this is tough on her, but it is sucking the life out of me. Since this all started six years ago I have worked with her to see the circle repeat over and over again. I am tired of starting over. I have been hopeful so many times in our relationship to only be let down. I fear that I have become numb and at times having trouble even offering kind words. Trust me this is not who I am. I am bitter and hurt all at the same time. I have covered for her for these years.....abandoned my own family etc. I have faith and then I have none. I am told this is all that I am taking, and then no wait I take this too. I am tired of worrying every time she goes to town she is looking to re-fill. This is a hard life to live. She has wrecked twice in the last year on top of it and only by the grace god did she survive. I am walking away from a six figure job to cut the head off the financial snake that allows her to re-fill. She does not work and is not capable of it either from a mental standpoint.
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Re: Family needs help

Postby subspouse » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:14 am

i hate to hear your struggles ma! six years is a long time, and even though i am opening myself as a target here i have to put in my two cents. Just the fact she took another strip added to the other admissions lately i hope your eyes are wide open..i had to give up my job, every possesion i had to get away from the lies and deciet and protect myself and our son. Now court mediation wednesday and prayers i keep full custody. We enabelers do not know how much we will tolerate until we cant take it anymore. I was isolated from the rest of my family...constantly covering for her...paying for the clinic....believing every lie/ excuse. Now I have years to devote to my son to overcome learning difficlties and possible disabilities. do not drown yourself trying to save someone who refuses to wear a lifejacket
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Re: Family needs help

Postby singlma » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Thanks SS for your support. I will be praying that you get full custody in your battle. Man this is the craziest thing that I have ever dealt with and let me tell you I have seen some BS in my life. The emotions are high and so are the stakes that's the thing that sucks. She has been sick all day and in bed most of the day. I just have a hard time getting my mind around the situation. She asked me if I leave my Job will we continue to have insurance. Now that would be a great question if it were not for our situation. What did I hear....."will I still have access to the free drugs:. I hate it that I have to think that way but I have be conditioned through experience. Is that not a damn shame. I feel that we are being dragged into a black hole and when its over, I will be lucky to maintain my sanity. I want to be nice, loving, caring, and all those things but I keep getting shit on. I do not even know if she is telling the truth in this detox. Her symptoms more match that of someone just quitting. Who knows. Let me know how your deal turns out with the custody. And thanks again for your support, though we are not the ones caught up in the actual abuse, we certainly get abused.
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Re: Family needs help

Postby cheeps » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:15 pm

Singima....and subspouse....once someone has used sub, it is very hard to deal with withdrawal from a dose over 1mg. Sub is a super strong med...too strong to taper for a month or two....when people come here to learn how to stop....we advocate a slow steady taper over the course of 6 to 9 months. We encourage exercise because that helps heal the brain. Normally a person tapers doing 20% cuts or drops every two weeks until they get to 1mg...then we slow them down even more.

Peeps do jump from more than that and have made it...the forum is full of threads on that. Your best readings and education is in the sub sux part of the forum....read the long threads.

Sing...your wife needs to steady her dosing of everything....she is going thru hell....the acute and post acute wds are so very hard to take doing a taper like she did. It's almost like she didn't taper at all. Accept her drug use, syd is so right about the benzos....they are hell to get off of and she needs them right now.

Now, as for you...you didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it. You must live for you and the kids....so, do what is best for you....she needs counseling and education herself. You may need to print off stuff here on what we call PAWS, post acute withdrawal. It is soul sucking for her to go thru this....being on the high dose makes it so hard from 30-120 days out.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Family needs help

Postby cheeps » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:19 pm

Go here and ignore the bs part.....someone always posts on how great iboga is....but we don't advocate it.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1391
10 yrs on methadone
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Knee surgery 9/19/14
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2017 taper in progress
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Re: Family needs help

Postby southerngirl » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:10 pm

Hey Sing. Sorry you are in the place you're in but it helps to look around this place and get an idea of the what to expect. I'm in your boat - my husband is a sub user. I don't wish this on anyone. The family gets hurt and rarely gets the support needed. Do you have kids? Do they know what's going on? Mine were babies when I first learned about the addiction - first to hydrocodone, then subs. Our family has been through the ringer so many times. It's a roller coaster. You go for a while when you think everything is fine and then BAM! You uncover one lie, then another and all of a sudden you are right back in the middle of another crisis of reality. Sorry if this offends anyone - but users are masters of creating the illusion that everything is fine. We, the family, want so badly to believe they are doing great, but in reality - they are just hiding their use from you. I don't know how you know when they reach the turning point of really and truly being 'clean.' I haven't gotten there so I don't know. But I've thought I was there countless times. I have celebrated milestones many times - and they weren't real. All I can tell you is this journey sucks. I'm sorry you are here. Read my thread if you want to know more of my story and feel free to PM me if you want to talk.

SG

http://subsux.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3002
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Re: Family needs help

Postby cheeps » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:07 am

singlma wrote:Subs have nearly destroyed my family. My wife has been off them now for 30 plus days. She had been on suboxone for almost five years. She took 24 mg a day during this period and rapidly reduced to 0mg a month ago. I praise her and God for the battle, but the war is not over. She is strong and I do not fear a relapse, but we have lingering problems that have me on the edge of my seat. Her thinking is scrambled......she is paranoid.......she can't sleep......etc. Has anyone else had these symptoms? Poor thing goes from one thought to the next, pulled down every rabbit hole. She is paranoid about our electronics, thinking she is being tracked, thinking at times that I am doing it. She cries and I try to comfort her but then she accuses me of tracking her or others. Has anyone else had these experiences. Mark




Mark.....I wish I had the answer to your wife's rapid detox but time is the healer. All of her thoughts and emotions are Valid....so validate her. When she accuses you of something....speak to her....use validation to help her.

"Sweetie, I learned that what you are feeling is normal because of how fast you had to get off"

"You are going to get thru this, it sucks, you feel crazy, but you aren't, it's your brain trying very hard to re wire."

"I know you feel awful and you may think you are losing it, but this is the hardest part and you will continue to have these haywire emotion for a while longer. But you're going to feel better every week."

Mark, can she come here and read....it may be to hard....she's got to stay busy even though she's all over the place. Sitting around is the worst. Please please don't expect too much from her.....get her to run or walk or go to the gym....something to exercise....that is the fastest way to heal the brain.
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Family needs help

Postby cheeps » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:09 am

Mark...this is a must read for you and wifey.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3100
10 yrs on methadone
Meth free 10/08
Back surgery 5/12/14
Knee surgery 9/19/14
Oxy free 12/06/14
2017 taper in progress
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Re: Family needs help

Postby Steph1850 » Tue May 31, 2016 5:45 pm

Hi Sing,

I just want to throw my two cents in here. I believe what your wife is experiencing is true severe W/Ds from such a rapid detox. Before I knew really how sub worked or a proper taper, I was taking 32mg a day, and decided to just cut back to 12mg. After about 3 days, I woke up in the middle of the night, having crapped the bed. I spent the next 4 days in bed, paranoid as all hell, sweating, shaking, couldn't even talk because my anxiety was so high. I lost 12 pounds, I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. Then I found out you can't drop your dose in that way.

So I really believe what you are seeing is because she needs to taper slowly over time. When I have tapered too fast, I find myself getting very paranoid, and agitated, and I have been tapering off 32mg since last May. Now down to .5 mg but I had to learn the hard way.

I wish she had never heard of sub--not even appropriate for someone abusing Lyrica. I hope you find the help and support you need here on this board.
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