Sub is destroying my health...and my life

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Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:34 pm

Hello,

I found this forum after writing on suboxforum.com for a while about all of the terrible side effects of subs and the moderator and other telling me it's all in my head and not related to subs-- my hair is falling out and I'm going bald, I haven't had a period in 9 months, my teeth are starting to crumble, 6 cavities since I started subs 9 months ago. I went to detox last December. I was in an abusive relationship for two years with someone who gave me opiates. I got off everything, mainly alcohol. I made the insanely stupid decision to go back on sub. I only took 2mg every other day before. But after getting sober, I abused it and went up to 32mg a day at one point! I didn't know what I was doing. In only a few weeks, I was hooked. I put my parents thru hell going to rehab and no one knows I went back on sub. My health has come to a crisis point. I've tapered down to 14 mtg and went to 12mg yesterday. I'm scared I'm going to lose my teeth if I taper slowly. I'm so scared. I'm doing so well in my life since getting sober.,
I've lost 40 pounds, I perform well at work and spend time with family. Thank God I haven't drank. But sub is controlling and ruining my life. I'm thinking of just telling my parents the truth but they've done so much for me. Helped me sell my old house, buy a new one and completely renovate it. I spend time with them everyday since i moved back to my hometown and telling them I screwed up again would devastate them. Is it possible to taper quickly from 12mg to 2 mg in a month? I'm so tired of the pain, agony, worry, anxiety and what's it's
cost my financially to be on sub. I never experienced these side effects when I was on 2mg and my doctor never informed me. HELP! I'm so broken.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby syd » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:14 pm

Hi Steph & welcome.

Try dropping to 6mg asap. Give it at least 4 days, if you are feeling ok, then drop to 4mg. Let us know how that goes.

You wont lose your teef in the next few months :mrgreen: .
Opiate users tend to have dry mouth and that is what contributes to unhealthy gums. Try using one of the mouthwashes that adds moisture to your mouth.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Lost Lady » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:54 pm

Hey Steph,
I'm sorry to hear all you are dealing with. I was on 12mg of Subs for 12 days and lucked out and found this board. I tapered fast and got off of them 23 days in. It's been about 3 weeks now. I went from 120mg of Oxy's per day to 12 mg of subs. I had some withdrawals but nothing too bad. I'm still struggling some but each day gets better. You can do this. Trust these people out here they will guide you through. Mags
Sub free since August 23, 2015...."Remember, if you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change. The devil changes you" Johnny California 8MM
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby cheeps » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:54 pm

Hey stephie....do what syd said....we will get you off this shit but you have to want to do it. 2mgs is the sweet spot, some peeps love how it feels at that dose. You are sensitive to opiates....that is so too bad about your hair....many peeps report hair loss and toof rot and it is sub related. Those fuckers at the other place are in denial....there are some cool peeps over there but the culture of the forum is denial about detox and side effects...so screw that.

So welcome to the other place where we eat puppies for breakfast and throw the bones to the sub drs. :mrgreen: :lol:
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:40 pm

Thank you guys for your replies. It feels good just to be able to talk to other people about this situation. I dropped from 20 to 12 and felt fine for a week and then I was shot mess. Shaking and sweating and no equilibrium. But fuck it, tomorrow I'll drop to 8 and see how that goes. My dentist told me to coat my teeth with vasoline before I take it. I just hope I can function at work. I'll check in tomorrow.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby cheeps » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:00 pm

You will have some rocky moments but if you can Puuush thru them...they won't last long....emotions being the number one mindfuck. You will have some raging and crying....this is very normal. Warn the people you can trust. But if you need to go slower, you can. It takes about 7-10 days to stabilize after each drop....you have a massive stack in your system thus the week of of okishness then the screaming meanies.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:28 am

Thanks, Mr. Cheeps. Yes, the emotion piece is the hardest by far! I'm motivated to do a big push downward again. I want my life back!!! I'm cutting dosage and the number of times I dose, too. I have a small amount of Ativan I hope can get me thru. I wish I had a muscle relaxer for when the jimmy legs kick in. I'll make do with what I have on hand. Tonight will be the first night I Won't dose before bed. We'll see if I wake up in a panic.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:42 am

Steph: I know exactly what your going thru wanting to be done asap... cheeps was 100% on spot with emotions being the biggest mindfuck!
My family also had no ideal I was on subs they all thought I had got clean 4.5 years earlier.
I was taking between 12-16 mg a day (2mg every few hours because I too was abusing them) one day I just made the decision I was done and I wanted my life back. It was so hard not to just stop that day because I didn't wanna taper. I tapered within 5-6 week and jumped. I'm by all means not saying this is how you have to do it but for me I couldn't taper slowly I had to set a date that seemed possible and remind myself everytime I wanted to do more, how soon my quit date was and how much harder the jump would be if I didn't taper. The day I made the choice I immediately went to 4mg. I stayed there for 2 weeks because I wanted it to level out. I don recall any physical symptoms just that I lacked energy/motivation. I then went to 3mg for a week and then 2mg for a week... the day I went to 2mg I had already had planned months before to stay at a lake house with my dad & stepmom, 5 siblings, 2 step-brothers, and all 8 of the grandkids. It was a super crazy busy weekend. and nobody knew what I was going thru, I had to hide everything from them. I made it thru the weekend and had a blast. I then went to 1mg and this was the week that I had planned a beach trip with my sister and her husband+toddler. There again they knew nothing about what i was going thru so I had to act 100%. We stayed busy from 6am to 11pm. I was soo busy I didn't really have time to think about things. When I got home I had a few days before I jumped and they weren't too bad but I had more time to think about things so it was that stupid mindfuck cheeps was talking about.

It's not a walk in the park by all means but it's totally do able.
Biggest piece of advice that I still gotta work on is stay busy.. if you have to make plans you cannot cancel then do it. It helped me tremendously and I still have to do it...
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:32 am

Hi Creeps and Music,

I guess my biggest question is...what do you do when you have those crazy withdrawal symptoms? Diarrhea, headache, body aches, even the anxiety I can deal with? But I get this weak, shaking, sweating and feels like my head is swimming and I'm going to keep crashing so low I wouldn't be able to get mysel home if I was out? Do you ride it out or take a little to stabilize? Also, I forgot to say that I have extra motivation to get off because my company is getting ready to do massive layoffs and if I get laid off, I'm scared won't pass a drug test.

Stringing this all out just seems like longer torture but I don't know how to deal when those symptoms come up.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:33 am

I called you music instead of finally over it, sorry!
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:18 pm

Honestly I'm not really sure I could answer that... I never had that symptoms while tapering.... now after I quit and was actually in detox I would get dizzy/sweaty/shaking if i tried to push my body beyond my limit for that time... it was that damn lead suit that everyone talks about.

Have you ever checked your blood sugar? When I was on subs my sugar would drop dangerously low once every few months and that's exactly what I felt like. I'm not saying it was the subs but it only happened when I was on them.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:38 pm

I honestly think it's because I take Seroquel as well, that's what they put me on in the hospital for anxiety. That's another drug I have to get off of, but I don't want to take that on at the same time as the sub. Seroquel raises your blood sugar levels. I am going to take less, 25mg instead of 50mg, and see if that helps. Here's the plan I'm thinking of: 8mg in morning, 4mg at 3pm for week to stabilize on new dosing schedule, then drop to 8mg in morning only for 10 days, then 4mg for 10 days, 3 for 10 days, 2mg for 10 days, 1mg for 10 days, then jump. Agh, that's two months! Maybe I should just go right to 8mg a day. What a horrible drug! Can't believe there haven't been huge class action suits from angry hairless, toothless nations of addicts! I wish there was a local support group. I used to go to AA but I stopped going and calling my sponsor because I feel like a fraud.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby syd » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:45 pm

What you have described, is nothing I have heard of with a sub taper. I've never taken Seroquel and had to look up the side effects. The dizziness, weakness, etc, were the side effects listed on the pages I read.

Now that you know these symptoms are Not from the Sub, you need drop lower than 8m.

I know it doesnt sound like much, BUT 1mg of Sub is a LOT and we dont recommend jumping from that high a dose.
Getting below 2mg is where most people start to struggle. We dont want you to fail, but you need to understand, this is very strong medicine.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Don_Pisto » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:18 pm

Hello Steph,

I'm happy you found this site. You'll get good advice here. Please stick around. You can win this, yes you can absolutely definitely can! It sounds like you really want to win this and that's huge.

I won't pile on any suggestions for now other than to suggest not setting a deadline to get off nor to jump off of 1mg. This poison is super strong and jumping off 1mg will suck ass. In the meantime, I also suggest learning all you can about this poison. The sub Drs and fancy brochures leave out a lot of critical info.

That's all for now. Keep reading, vent all you want, ask questions, etc. because this site is a great resource with incredible people who are very generous with straight and proven advice and suggestions.

You can win this!
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby cheeps » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:57 pm

Hey stephi...you can go to 6mgs for 3 days, then 4mgs for three days, then 3mgs for three days.....after that you should slow down....I can help you with a taper so you can get into the low numbers under one mg.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby bluebird46 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:51 am

Hey Steph,

The swimming head, dizziness thing gonna crash sounds like your BS MAY be low. Do you have a glucose meter, you can buy one and check your BS. if your BS is going low and you are thinking that the Seroquel raises your blood sugar than you are doing the opp by lowering that dose if I read that correctly. Are you diabetic? Keeping those little juice packs the kids drink in the car has enough sugar to pull you back up if that is the case.

Antidepressants are no joke either. They can mess up your head and need to be tapered as well. It would be nice if you had a benzo for anxiety. Sweats and crap typical of wd. Warm/cold showers/baths or whatever you prefer whenever you need. In the car - crank up AC. I was constantly jumping in the shower just to get rid of sweats and stuff.

I was absolutely blessed to find this site (on the first try at that, lol) and cheeps got me off subs in less than two weeks. I never took the 16mg everyday doc wanted and never went above I guess 2mg, hard to tell. I am still early in but holding strong. Rage is my biggest issue right now. So I gotta be real careful about being in public so I don't go off and beat someone's ass.

But yeah, subs poison no doubt and I do believe there will be some lawsuits coming down the pike. Between the pain docs that get us in a bad place to begin with (me anyway) and the sub docs who think they are doing us a favor and are too uneducated on subs to know.

Good luck to you.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:52 am

Lost Lady wrote:Hey Steph,
I'm sorry to hear all you are dealing with. I was on 12mg of Subs for 12 days and lucked out and found this board. I tapered fast and got off of them 23 days in. It's been about 3 weeks now. I went from 120mg of Oxy's per day to 12 mg of subs. I had some withdrawals but nothing too bad. I'm still struggling some but each day gets better. You can do this. Trust these people out here they will guide you through. Mags


You are so lucky to have found this board! I wish I would have done this same in January when I got back on sub. I'm so happy for you to have gotten off of it so quickly. What a huge blessing.
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:56 am

bluebird46 wrote:Hey Steph,

The swimming head, dizziness thing gonna crash sounds like your BS MAY be low. Do you have a glucose meter, you can buy one and check your BS. if your BS is going low and you are thinking that the Seroquel raises your blood sugar than you are doing the opp by lowering that dose if I read that correctly. Are you diabetic? Keeping those little juice packs the kids drink in the car has enough sugar to pull you back up if that is the case.

Antidepressants are no joke either. They can mess up your head and need to be tapered as well. It would be nice if you had a benzo for anxiety. Sweats and crap typical of wd. Warm/cold showers/baths or whatever you prefer whenever you need. In the car - crank up AC. I was constantly jumping in the shower just to get rid of sweats and stuff.

I was absolutely blessed to find this site (on the first try at that, lol) and cheeps got me off subs in less than two weeks. I never took the 16mg everyday doc wanted and never went above I guess 2mg, hard to tell. I am still early in but holding strong. Rage is my biggest issue right now. So I gotta be real careful about being in public so I don't go off and beat someone's ass.

But yeah, subs poison no doubt and I do believe there will be some lawsuits coming down the pike. Between the pain docs that get us in a bad place to begin with (me anyway) and the sub docs who think they are doing us a favor and are too uneducated on subs to know.

Good luck to you.
BB


I do have a stash of Ativan, enough to get me thru a two month taper. My chiropractor also turned me on to a supplement called Cortisol Manager and it doesn't make you feel doped but it keeps the anxiety lower throughout the day and can sometimes sleep thru the night. It's been helping me to take Ativan only when desperate. It's made a huge difference!
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby Steph1850 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:01 pm

cheeps wrote:Hey stephi...you can go to 6mgs for 3 days, then 4mgs for three days, then 3mgs for three days.....after that you should slow down....I can help you with a taper so you can get into the low numbers under one mg.


Cheeps, I would love your help with a taper. I can start it on Thursday after my big work presentation is done. I might have to go a little slower because of my other symptoms but if I can be off by the holidays, 6-8 weeks, that would be awesome. What dose do you recommend jumping from?
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Re: Sub is destroying my health...and my life

Postby cheeps » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:12 pm

When you hit a wall...usually .25... But we've had people go lower. I need to check your thread again and gather more info.

One of the things I need from you is commitment...
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