37 days off sub and need some advice

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37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:55 am

A little background... I started pills 6 years ago and like alot of people things got bad fast and although mentally I don't think I was ready to get clean I knew I couldn't live that way any longer and survive so i got on subutex. Was on Sub for prob 4 years. Started out doing 4mg and allowed myself to become dependant on it and started taking it like any other drug until I ended up at 8-12mg daily... I was sooo over that and all the numbness that brought to my life but the fear of not making it thru withdrawls kept me on it. Luckily the state I live in has made a new law that it can only be perscribe to preg/nursing women (Nalaxone give me daily migraines) so i went to the doc one day and he informed me that that would be my last script. I freaked out to begin with then smartened up and decided to do a super fast taper which worked out perfectly because it put me ending the week my husband had vacation and my sister in law had planned a 4 night sleep over with tons of activities for my girls so i ended up with 10 days to myself.

I took my last sub the last day of June 2015 so today is day 37 of my sobriety. Most of my symptoms were gone by day 10-11 with sleep,RLS, lack of motivation & energy, depression still lingering... the sleep and rls ended at about day 18-19....

BUT... I cannot seem to get past this motivation/energy/mood issue. Once my physical symptoms went away it's like I got over focused on repairing my life I applied at a few jobs and all I could think about was making my life how I had expected it. Then I became numb again I just quit caring about those things again... I didn't follow thru with any of the jobs, or anything I had planned really. Me and my husband got in a huge fight and he threatened to leave and emotionally I was so shut down I couldn't even react. I have no interest in doing anything but I cannot stand being bored. It's like I have to tell myself a million times to do something before I get mad enough to do it.

I cannot explain this but I remember before pills I could just go about my day doing all the things I needed to and not thinking twice. Does that ever come back? This is getting to the point I feel like a relapse could be inevitable if i have to deal with this much longer. I cannot stand this!
Did anyone deal with this after subs and if they did how did you get thru this? How long did it last? Any advice is appreciated.
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby amery2u » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:59 pm

HELLO, FOI, and welcome to SS.

Wow....you are at 37 days, that's HUGE~!~ I was sick for ten days... SICK sick...... my husband took a week and weekend off work to "care" for me. Couldn't eat, sleep, bathe . . nor get off the couch without him.

READ my thread; its under Amery2u. Also, Yup and RC51Guy are my "troupe" . . . and/or jump-buddies. We didn't plan this, but we are all around the same time. They have time ON me, but I'm almost to four months.

To answer your question, when I got to about a month-and-a-half, I finally DUSTED my house, that I had neglected forever. (except when i was high on subs) . . . AND . . . i cried. A lot. Then, I fell back in love with my husband, and actually ENJOYED sex.

Girl, There is such a WEALTH of info on here; its phenominal. I would NOT have cancelled my appointment (well they did it for me) when I was a month off Subs. I would have lost it ALL were it not for this place.

Energy / motivation / moods. These will be UP and DOWN for awhile. Embrace the good times and do stuff, and when you feel shitty, get on YouTube and listen to Tool/Sober & Staind/It's Been Awhile & Trapt/Headstrong .... or just chill. Cheeps says wait six MONTHS for any REAL changes in your life, ie: job stuff. I kinda "lost" my job over jumping off this shit. I was at 8 a day.....stupid me didn't know to taper.

I remember those days, forcing myself to do shit that I really was TOO lazy to do, but I knew I had to. The peeps around here have HELD my hand since April, and if you really want to FIGHT thru and not relapse, do some reading. My thread. RC51Guy. Yup. We are all around 4 months. NEIL is from Australia, and he's at 30 days. PLEASE CHECK OUR STUFF OUT. I know, I'm a female too, and I talk too much, LoL . . bcz i'm Italian. . .

SERIOUSLY THO. . . When you said "I cannot explain this" etc etc etc . . . that was SO me. And Cheeps. YES IT COMES BACK!!!!!!! In droves for awhile, then maybe a set-back for an hour or a day, then BACK AGAIN.

READ some of Cheeps' posts, just click on her name and search around; comfort meds at your stage will help immensely. I wouldn't trade my sobriety for almost losing my husband (and kids, whom hated me) ever again, and I hope you don't either.

Girl, you got this.
PM me .. i'm on here often.

Good luck and please PERSEVERE. Being PAST 30 DAYS IS A HUGE MILESTONE; I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT!

HUGS,
Anne :)
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby cheeps » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:20 pm

Annie is spot on..

..sub is a long lasting opiate...it's different from pills...when you taper, you might think the shitty stuff well go away quickly....and sometimes it does.....but then, because it has a long half life.....this thing called paws kicks in.....that is why you have no energy our motivation. It's why this forum is here....to help you understand what is happening



You really will get better soon. You did a huge thing with your rapid taper! Dont give up the days you have in the bankn....keep going...you are doing something that is very very very hard to do. I can speak to your hubby if need be. He needs to understand how huge this is. Your brain is healing....tell him it's like having a severe concussion. Honest...it is that much of a big deal.

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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby yup. » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:01 pm

I'm 135 days off subs and it's still tough. Cheeps and Anne are right: the long half-life really makes the PAWS intense. I'm over four months off subs and I still have shit days. It does get better, first physically and then mentally, and eventually the good days will outweigh the bad ones. Just don't give up. Every time I think about relapsing I remind myself of what the acute withdrawal days were like. Anne and I both jumped off 8mg so it's completely possible that our withdrawals are going to be worse than yours but it'll probably still suck nonetheless. Regardless of that, stay with it.

One thing I noticed is that my emotions came back and I didn't have control over them sometimes. That part gets a bit easier but it's still a bitch sometimes. It's okay to feel impatient, especially since detoxing from subs is a pain, but don't let it get the best of you. When things are good for me, especially now that I have over four months banked, they are great. You'll get there. In the early stages, where I felt like I was wearing a lead suit, I tried to think of it as rebuilding myself. It's not fun, but if you want to feel like you did before opiates, or just feel decent and mobile, you have to look at it like it's the only option. Some people on here are great about exercising. I'm not one of them. I started jogging and that helps immensely but sometimes I find it difficult, especially since I work a full-time job. Just try some light exercise, like walking around the block, And see how far you can get. A few hours later try to do it again and make it a little further. I did that during the acute phase because I couldn't even walk around one corner before running out of breath. It's nice to see where I was and where I am now. It almost feels like baby steps at times.

Even though I get angry, I get depressed, and some mornings I wish I was dead, I don't want to go back. The clarity of mind I have is so much better off subs. It's worth it. If you're not taking vitamins you should start and look into amino acids. They also help. There's a wealth of information on this forum. Read up, get informed, and look at what other people did or are doing. I used stuff from a bunch of different posts, along with advice from Cheeps and others, and created my own regimen that I stick to every day. If I was able to take pills on regular intervals then I'm certainly able to take vitamins.

I need to head back into work. Keep us updated on how you're feeling. Use this forum to vent. It's helpful and chances are your experience will help others in the future. :-)
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:57 pm

Thank you everyone that responded I was hoping to hear from people like you guys who are a enough ahead of me to help me get a better idea if this is just me or the detox. I've always been scared that I permanently screwed up my brain... I've had an okay day today me and the hubby got into an argument about all the crap that needs to be done around here and all our unfinished projects. I just can't seem to get him to understand I'm struggling to do what I am little along all the extras. He works 7 nights a week and won't have vacation until the end of the year so he just started his taper and don't understand what I'm going thru.. he seems to think it's going to be 2 weeks of physical symptoms and he will be back to normal.

Anyways, like you guys suggested I've been listening to music for a few weeks now. It's the only way I can get any cleaning done. I've been walking a few times a week and just recently started doing some at home weight training it does help but I am exhausted after. I tried a vitamin B complex and it seems to increase my anxiety and anger...

I don't think I will relapse but I definitely have my weak moments esp. When I get angry!

Again thanks for the replys is so nice to have someone who understands.
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby amery2u » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:02 am

Haya FOI,

Glad to hear you are still hanging in there. Just like Yup said, keep reading other peeps threads, and maybe encourage your husband to do so also.. I couldn't IMAGINE going thru what you are, as MY husband was trying to quit. (Hell, mine doesn't even smoke cigs or pot; he's pretty "straight laced" which is a good thing) !

AT least you have some time on him.

How many days do you have clean now?
Him?

Just wondering. . . its easier to help ya's when we have "benchmarks" of progress.

Music is AWESOME therapy. So is the exercise, and I'm sure it helps you sleep better at night; it does me!

Check back soon; hope all is well~!

Hugs,
Anne :)
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby subster58 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:57 pm

Hi FOI, welcome to ss. There a lot of great people here to help you through getting off subs. You've already gotten really good advise. My comments are the same. You can do it and this is a good place to vent it out. I'm surprised your husband isn't more understanding. Everyone is different. Sounds like he's taking his shit out on you.
You can do it.
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby Neil » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:03 pm

Hi, I'm in a pretty similar space to you I think, as far as time off sub goes anyway. I'm 51 days off Sub and seriously, some of the things you have said are almost exactly what I have said. I remember saying to Cheeps and Anne that if this doesn't get a bit better soon I don't know if I can keep doing this. My mood was very very low and I just couldn't see my way out of it and I thought I had the flu and my neck and back were killing me. Slowly, most of those things have got better. I am sleeping, eating and I am working 5 days a week. My mood has improved but like life it is still up and down. I know everyone's different and there are some people here that have jumped off way bigger doses than I did and others who have tapered right down to almost nothing, which is what I did. I thought that if I tapered off really slowly I would avoid any bad withdrawals and I know people that have had minimal symptoms but what I found out for me was that even though I had tapered really low I became horribly depressed and I felt like it would never end. What I'm saying is, when I was in it, the depression, it was very debilitating and because it effects everything, I began to think that maybe I had done so much damage to my brain that it wouldn't get better? Thankfully, people here knew what I was going through and told me it was all part of getting off sub.

All I can say is, I am so glad I found this place! You are in the right place and I sincerely hope that you keep posting. Big hugs to you from Australia!!

Neil
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby yup. » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:31 am

Neil hit it right on the head: “What I'm saying is, when I was in it, the depression, it was very debilitating and because it effects everything, I began to think that maybe I had done so much damage to my brain that it wouldn't get better.” It does get better. I’m 138 days off subs today and I still have my bad days. I’m realizing that life is just a game of up and down. The good thing about being off subs is that I actually feel again. Also, that can be a curse at times. This stuff takes ahold of your brain in a way that’s way different than short acting opiates (SAO’s). I’ve detoxed off hydrocodone’s before and it was nothing like this. Like I (and others) have said above, the half-life of subs is way longer and it takes more time for it to exit your body.

Just don’t give up, realize that this is temporary, and that you will get better. It takes work, and sometimes I’m not the best about that, but nonetheless you need to push yourself to some extent. I know this sounds nerdy but I looked at it like a RPG (role playing game), where you build levels and create better characters. I used to play a bunch of Final Fantasy when I was younger so I tried to look at it as a sort of rehabilitation, where I was building myself back up and I used a mental model that resonated with me. It took a while but now I’m pretty much where I was physically before I stopped subs. Yes, opiates can give you a false form of endurance and it takes a little more to get back to there but it’s doable. There’s a guy on here named Kurdt that has been working out religiously and is dealing with way less issues than I did. I think it’s great but at the same time I’m totally envious because I wish I had that kind of dedication. It just takes work.

You’re on the path to having a better life. Patience is key and I’m not the poster child for that virtue but I’m trying. Just don’t give up. I hope this evening finds you well. :-)
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby Mollusk » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:45 am

I'm not off subs, I'm still tapering, but knowing there are different people at different stages is helping give me the courage to do this. I got super depressed for a while. My fiancé fell in love with me while I was on heroin, I was straight with her at the beginning. The other day she was talking about how we used to be and how I had so much energy, and was happy (while I was on fucking dope) and how now I'm always tired and distant. Heroin was hell, sub is some awful level of hell. I was always a functioning addict. So I guess I see her point. Sub put me in a place where I don't want to function. When I talked to my sub doc he just wanted to give me more drugs to deal with the side effects of the subs. All these stories are my sub for subs while I'm trying to get off it here. Sometimes when I hear" 135 days clean" it terrifies me, like I'm not even in it yet. But you're in it, other people are in it, some people are out of it and have made it. You're doing great, and you're inspiration to me to keep going and keep doing what I'm doing. The funny thing is, I found this sight by reading subforums and there was a debate going on between a doctor and a biologist and the doctor told the biologist to "just go to the sub sucks forum" and I did. That asshole sub doctor may have saved my life and relationship....well my life the way I want it to be, to be able to get up and work, to be able to go backpacking and hunting, to get my sex drive back, and to share it all with my babby that's coming. I hope these sub doctors get what's coming to them. If they want to detox someone by using subs, cool. But this cash grab is getting insane at the expense of some of the most vulnerable people. I lost friends over this. Well, I'm really gonna try to get the fuck up and get at the world today. Hope to talk to you all some more soon.
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby Mollusk » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:48 am

After reading my last reply that I wrote in this wonky phone with a cracked screen I realized I made it sound like I wanted to get my sex drive back and share it with my unborn baby. That's not the case. Lol. Just bad sentence structure. Hahaha. Cheers
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:27 pm

Amery2u: today is day 40 for me and my husband has just started a taper which he plans to extend out until the first of the year due to his job. It just kinda happened that it was perfect timing for myself and I always wanted off just never worked out right for me to have the time off to do it. But for him he is the sole provider for us... we live in a small town and there isn't hardly any good paying jobs around for people without degrees and the place he works is one of the highest paying factories around and they know anyone is replaceable so my husband is going to do a slow taper to avoid the withdrawl as much as possible.
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:33 pm

Yup: It's great to know that this does get better... and I know a part of me knows that it's just getting so frustrating waiting for that to happen. I feel like I have to tell myself for hours that I need to do something before I get so mad I finally turn the music up and do it....
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby amery2u » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:49 pm

FOI ~

It's AWESOME to hear you are at the big four-oh! I kinda counted that from your post, but wasn't sure if you stayed on schedule.

We live in a small town, also. Shauck, Ohio. Look it up, if it even SHOWS on a map! LoL. My husband is our sole provider as well; I'm getting my CDL so I can be a productive citizen of society soon, myself. . . it's just that peeps here say that until 6 months (yeah!) anything drastic can send one downward into the spiral again, and I'm not taking ANY chances. At my age, if I had to go thru the acute w/d's again, I'd give up and give in .. for sure.

At the four-oh (Neil just passed that) you are TOTALLY on the upswing, girlfriend. Mollusk (from cleveland, btw!) is right around the same time.

YOU all have SO got this. . . if you TRULY want it. IT'S a new life! Easy? nawh.... WORTH IT? YEAH!

ANYTIME...post or pm.

Your success makes MINE even more worthwhile. I'm a 'helper' type-A person. . . i validate myself helping others at times, but . . . if it works; work it!

Hugs again,
Anne :)
Last edited by amery2u on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby yup. » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:29 pm

FOI,

Believe me when I understand your impatience. It’s not easy whatsoever and I still have difficulty with it. Having detoxed off hydrocodone before I figured subs would be similar to that and it totally isn’t. Kicking hydro’s took about a week of my life total (3-4 days of feeling like shit and another 3-4 days of readjusting, kind of like getting over a really bad cold or mild flu). Maybe it’s also because I live in an instant gratification society, where I can get almost anything through my phone and it’s changed the way I think. Personally, I just think it’s the subs and the PAWS associated with kicking them. It does get better. I promise.

One of the biggest problems I had was finding interest in things again. There’s this scene in the movie Trainspotting where the main character detoxes heroin and then finds himself bored and depressed. It took a while for that to go away. I lost interest in reading, watching movies, or any of the hobbies or interests I had before and during pills. That has started to subside but what I’ve noticed is that I have less tolerance for bullshit anymore. I have a hard time watching what I feel are mediocre television shows, whereas before I could sit there and watch nonsense and be fine with it. I think part of that is my head has cleared and the other part is that I still feel guilty sometimes about the years I spent on drugs. It’s almost like lamenting for that time lost. Sometimes it gets the better of me but as the days progress I find it easier to deal with. When you feel that way just remember that it’s only temporary.

Congratulations on making it 40 days. Now, look forward to 41. It’s difficult to put the future aside and live in the present but it’s possible. I find myself doing it sometimes and simple things, like the breeze blowing a beautiful tree limb, resonate more. You’ve already made it 40 days so don’t give up. That’s a feat that many people can’t say they’ve accomplished. Keep fighting and please don’t give up. I’m proud of you.

And here’s that scene from Trainspotting. It’s a great movie but I don’t recommend watching it right now. Ultimately, the message of the movie is that heroin addiction is a bad thing but sometimes watching stuff about opiates can make you desire it. After all, the movie is filled with attractive men that are drug addicts and for a while it glamourizes drug use. Thankfully, that message gives way to the one that says it’s a trap. I feel that’s the truth about opiates at this point: they are a trap and one way to empower yourself is to recognize the trap. I used to quote a line from the film The Holy Mountain on here a while back (because I was watching it once or twice a week as a comfort film) and I think it resonates deeply: “The fish thinks about his hunger, not about the fisherman.” I believe there’s a good deal of truth in that statement. :-)

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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:07 pm

Yup: You completely described me. During the physical symptoms when I didn't have my kids all I did was watch TV and hope for the day I felt better (and took a few short walks). I seriously watched almost every episode of criminal minds. Then once I started getting up and doing a few things, I lost all interest in TV + everything else. My husband works night shift so he is home thru the day and once I stated to feel better physically I started taliking to him and we started going and doing things. But then I lost interest in even doing that.

When I mentioned getting a job my husband flipped on me and quit talking to me for like 3 days. (He never would admit that he thought I was going to leave but that's always how it relationship went before pills) then he went thru my facebook and seen that I had an ex on my friends list (haven't talked to the guy in like 5 years and he is engaged with a new baby) and we got in a huge fight where he turned everything on me and threatened to leave and that's the point I lost interest in everything. I just kinda shut down. There was always this cycle between us that we would get together and as long as I quit having friends and doing in anything without him or my children we would have issues... everytime we would get together he would convince me to quit my job... etc... so as soon as I somewhat started talking to an old friend (that's a girl) and told him I wanted a job our relationship has suffered. He knows I will not put up with that shit anymore and I can see that he is trying but it still gets to me... like yesterday me and him played phone tag and when I got home he got so mad because I told him "I tried calling you back and you didn't answer and I was just really busy" (i was at the busiest mall around on tax free weekend with just my 2 kids)... the girls went to my sisters at like 830pm and I came straight home to wake my hubby up. Instead of him talking to me he just got up hurried to get ready and left for work an hour early...

He cannot understand what I'm going thru and I understand that but he is emotionally making this so much harder for me.

As crazy as this sounds I never seen this pattern wit us until now... I guess because it was from the ages of 17-20 that we did this then 20-27 I stayed too high or numb from subs to see it. His whole family has been like this.... I tried to explain it the other day and he agreed that his family was always like that but never would admit that he also is trying to keep me from having a life outside of him and our kids.
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby subster58 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:18 pm

HI FOI, congrats to your 40 days of being off subs. DITTO to what has already been posted. We all understand and you are not alone. Your doing it!!!!
Peace,
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby finallyoverit7115 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:28 am

Oh and that video: omg that's totally me! At least I know it will get better and be a part of this process. I've never made it this far off of anything . Just a few days and I'd end up finding my fix so i just didn't expect any of this...
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby Neil » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:52 am

Hi, you are going really well! 40 plus days is awesome! I know it doesn't feel like it sometimes, especially when you have a lot of different things that you are dealing with but it is doable and your doing it! :thumbup:

Neil
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Re: 37 days off sub and need some advice

Postby cheeps » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:41 pm

fOI....your hubby seems to want to isolate you and that isn't appropriate for detox. This is a time where you need to be around people that love you...like family or any friends that are good for you.

Why does your husband want to quit sub?
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