On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

If there is an issue that you really need to discuss, that you feel needs URGENT attention regarding some type of medical/recovery problem, this is the place for it..

Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby nootlsjr » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:20 pm

wut up tc and ss. you both are doing good, and im interested in the lope/pepper thing. would adding poppy seed make a difference???

sub/lao wd sucks, the first week or two are unimaginabley ennoying, but theres a bigger picture and things get better and easier. stay on your toes for blind thinking. this will pass, get better and worse, but your more exceptable for a wild card the first 2 weeks. note that your mentally ill for a few weeks, and give it more time know matter what.

be patient, and welcome to the other side.lol. keap your tongue and belongings to yourself at all times till the ride is over.lol.[just kidding, or i would have stayd on my thread]. i have a habbit of saying good intentioned things in a critizing way.

if i say something wrong/impropper, let me know, so i can fix the error.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:39 pm

TexasChemist wrote: The evenings are much smoother than the mornings.
The nights are pretty bad too after the initial 2 hours of sleep i get, as the rest is pretty much tossing & turning.
Thats how bad it was, & that was with 2 melatonin.


Mornings suck- my nights are better too...Melatonin never worked for me. I've been having good results with Valerian Root. 900mg of root (not extract) an hour before bed and sleep has been decent. OTC anithistamine sleep meds have treated me good after the script of Vistaril from the "doctor" ran out. I alternate each night..

TexasChemist wrote:Having to lower the ativan below norm. as I went nuts the first few days...


Danger Will Robinson Danger!

TexasChemist wrote:Just so weak/fatigue in the days...its a scary weak feeling, but I will do the immodium thingy earlier tomorrow so maybe I can be worth something. I am more comfortable taking it after hearing WDs are not near as bad as the original beast.


I've shaken hands with the fatigue. I guess I'm just gonna drag ass for a while. B-12 feels like speed to me right now. Caffiene? HA! No freakin' way. Slow and setady, pal, slow and steady.

Keep on keepin' on,

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:45 pm

nootlsjr wrote:wut up tc and ss. you both are doing good, and im interested in the lope/pepper thing. would adding poppy seed make a difference???


Nope poppies/seeds/pod tea aren't the ticket. I wouldn't do the pepper thing unless you're trying to get high off Lope. Just enough Lope, on it's own, to slow the guts down. Helps with the itching bones and creepy crawlies/RLS for me.

No harm- no foul,

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:43 am

hey nootlsjr & sub.
nootlsjr - i don't think anything you add will really do a whole lot, unless you were really bad like I was. (but i don't know it all by any means...im a noob at this). I mean, I was about to call 911. I was having some scary stuff happening. ha... so for me, it was a huge relief, but as stated, I think the Immodium is the most active thing in there, but i havent tried it with other things... I just know I was about to freakout, & came accross a good feeling on accident & wanted to find out how it happened & where it went as I was not doing good at all the next day. Im sure the other thing mentioned (starts with a 'q' - the actual box normaly will say 'leg cramps' I think...), is the one thing it sayes is a proven opiate when mixed. I guess if things got too bad I would buy it & try it, as I think anything is better than messing with a sub or getting started in that cycle of darkness again.

Yeah sub, It is not easy/fun/friendly/believable at times, but one thing that is for sure 'this too shall pass'. Its said too many times to not be true. ha. So I just got to try to get out of sciences 'eternal now' & get into the abstration of such relative-beliefs in time-conception and applied concepts-ideas as 'tomorrow' over the eternal now, as that idea is at some times too negative to accept to be reality. (for me it is anyways)
I keep hoping tomorrow will be better, but man that dreaded morning/night....well, maybe it will get better soon & allow us to see clearer with each day. Hang in there bro.
That original pain may have just been an implanted idea from a money-hungry doctor...(gotta tell myself something as I do hope that it is not too bad when Im stripped down to bare human defenses).ha. Maybe wishful thinking, but let's not put a miracle possibility out of the equation yet. Pain can be as relative in conception as tomorrow, just got to figure out how to train my head into processing it as such.
If bad dreams tonight, I think I will try the stuff you mentioned sub.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby subster58 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:36 am

Hi Texas, hope you are feeling better, thinking of you
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:45 am

I second that champ- hope today is a bit better for you.

Hang tough,

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby AddictAJ » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:23 am

OMG - I take Prilosec every day (have for years) & am also tapering immodium!! I definitely overused it in the beginning (like twist, I have a young son-being immobilized by WD isn't really an option with a toddler) & I know I'm physically dependent on it - there's definitely no mental addiction, for me at least lol. But I wonder if the reason I've had such a 'tolerant' detox is because of the lope/Prilosec combo?! I'm of the same mind as twist, I'd MUCH rather deal with a few days of discomfort from lope than still be on sub. I'm still taking lope (6 mg - 3 mg am & 3 before bed) every other day & as long as I dose early on my 'on' days, I haven't noticed the drops - could it be from the reaction it's having with my reflux med?! Ugh, serves me right for not researching drug interactions I guess. I've never felt 'high' - just normal which is what sub does at first. I'm just glad that the immodium is marketed as anti-diarrhea because otherwise Im willing to bet that it would be behind the counter now with the sudafed lol. I'd read about people taking ridiculous amounts of it trying to get high but never about mixing it with other stuff!
I really don't think there's too much to be concerned with - if it helps, it helps - just as long as we are aware of the fact that we will have to taper off of it & use it responsibly.
Ok I have more to say but baby calls so I gotta run for now. Glad you were able to find some relief, Tex. keep on rocking the detox!

AJ
"The past is a ghost, the future a dream, and all we ever have is now. Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it." - Bill Cosby

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:54 pm

Thanks AJ & sub &tia & all. Its the 26th of April & I was able to sleep good the last couple of nights w/o any help. I have gone out in the texas sun daily & tried to do some work each day. I am limited to a couple of hours then exhausted beyond belief. I am happy to say that I think the horrible 'funk' has been lifted. I am not able to really make a lot of energy, & a spoonfull weighs a ton, but I think it will get better. Hope to get back into fitness & get that part of my life back also. It feels good to do & has some other advantages as well.

I won't say I'm 'cured', but will say that things are better for me & I am not in the ugly/unrealistic phases of DTX. I do think the Imodium does have some mental dependancys. I note that the more I take, the more stable I feel mentally as well, so this may present a bit of a problem, but I think I will manage.

Original pain has not really surfaced... Maybe it's there, but I'm willing to try to overlook it if it means me getting me back. I thank all who have shared & offered encouragement/ideas/suggestions/advice/experience with my selfishness. I may not write much on the thread anyore & hopefully you experienced people can help another noob who is mind-blown at the WDs of BUPE. When Imodium phase is gone & I am 100% back to normal, I will make a note if possible of the number of days it took me & maybe a small list of things that helped/hurt in my case. Maybe it would help someone else. Thanks again to all for not being super critical &/or jumping the new guy for every word or idea they have that one may not agree with, or even know to be silly. ha... rare to find in a forum & really would be the last thing anyone would want/need if in WDs...so THANK YOU ALL.

Thanks to God for forgiving me & allowing me to come out of a place that nobody wishes to be. It feels much better to not have the burdon of meds dictating my actions/life, & I have most of my senses back.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:10 pm

Glad you're feeling better champ!

Maybe stick around- you never know- you just might be the one to pull someone out of the fire. If not that's cool too.

Stay well brother,

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby cheeps » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:37 pm

SubSucker wrote:Glad you're feeling better champ!

Maybe stick around- you never know- you just might be the one to pull someone out of the fire. If not that's cool too.

Stay well brother,

-Subsucker




8-)
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby subster58 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:59 pm

Texas, so your off of subs and feel ok??? with a fast taper. Please let us know.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:48 am

Hi all. Yes Tia. Even with the fast taper, I am doing much better. Its kinda like I am a lil kid again and re-discovering everything in life all over. It feels pretty good & hope it only gets better. I'm sure that not everyday is gonna be great, but we were never promised everyday was going to be peachy either. However, I feel a great relief in more ways than one.

If you did a fast taper Tia, I would say that if you can take small amount of the Imodium & eat some, it will help quite a bit. I would not load up massively on it, unless your about to 'crack' & just cant take anymore. If you take 1mg at a time, it might get you to level of 'ok...I can handle this', but all are different, & its the first 10-12 days that were the worst for me. If you can force yourself to stick in there that long, amazing things should happen. :)

Also, If you can get some acidophilus, it will help to break the food down better & not have bad side effects of Imodium stack/use. It's just stomach enzymes/good bacteria for stomach, and will help food digest better as many meds will strip us for these & when we do eat (in WD), it can cause BP to go way up afterwords, & I noticed this helped. Its just OTC & may/may not help your case, but it helps me.

I also took some vitamins (several of them each day) as I was willing to go through some WDs to get this garbage out ASAP, but I also have real fast metabolism, so that also may have played a factor in the speed of my situation, & I'm sure there are others who have done it even quicker than me, but I have felt decent/good/great for the last few days, it's just the first 10 that seemed to be a rollercoaster that wouldnt let me off. But hang in there...Its awesome to be a kid again & rediscover the amazing creations all over the place. The weather is great here & Its just like someone took off a pair of handcuffs that had been on me for a long time. (some may be familiar with the feelings/thoughts that come with those things....I am glad I don't have them anymore)
Thanks again to all who gave help to me. Tia, you can do this. I know I HATE pain...and if I can do it, anyone can. I mean, I have low tolerance for pain, & was able to do it, so I am sure you can do this. Your going to feel 100x's better soon.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:31 pm

Right on brother! :shred:

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby subster58 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:36 pm

Thanks Texas, still on small about sub, started at 32mg by MFMD, down to less than .25mg, failed first jump due to the wicked SE, like someone took a match to my veins, jumping sometime soon!!??
rock on.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby tw15t3d » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:14 pm

Hey Texas,
Good to see you doing well, and really taking care of yourself. You would be a good guy to stick around and give others some tips as well...but that is your choice. Also if you could compare, what has been the intensity of your pain, compared to when you were on the subs?
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:31 pm

hey sub, sub, & twisted. All is going good here. I have had a bit of a low yeaterday evening & this morning/afternoon. It seems to come in 40 hour cycles somewhat & then the relief/clarity is back. I am trying to not dwell/post too much of the negative, yet keep it real to anyone who may be going through DTX.

The mind game is the hardest thing at this point. It seems to control everything really. It can take one to some places they feel 'stuck' in, & if this happens, Its important to take it easy, yet also (if possible), try to be as active as possible to keep body in motion of real life & get out of that haze. I wished I could say all was excellent, but it takes time to happen. The body is fighting hard to get me back. Thats one of the many amazing things it does on its own & I have no clue how it works, & even science cant explain all the parts of the body, or how one does such involuntary things like this. Ha, what an amazing invention: the human.

As for pain, I kinda hate to say it, but the imodium is really a key factor in managing the mind as that seems to control most of the physical as well. I have some real solid days of no issues, but the cycles are still happening, yet they seem to be spaced out much longer than the initial week. I would say that the first week is horrible, so anyone thinking of 'jumping', be aware.....just may not be anyway around it. But after that, there are some good feelings that come. Pain is not bad/unbearable. I took lots of OTC pain meds the first week (like all possible w/o overdoing it, but the mix of the 3 main ones seemed to help a lot). I now just take 2 Aleve a day (& 4mg Imodium) & maybe some tylenol daytime &/or caffeine to help w oddball aches & pains. I really do not think the BUPE was doing a whole lot for real physical pain in looking back. Of course, when i took it, i wasn't WD'ing, so it made me 'feel better', but to answer twisted, I really think it being classed as a real pain reliever is not a valid way to deal w/ pain. At least not in the small doses I took. Maybe at a big dose it would help, but I am not looking to get back on it ever again.

If things get in an ugly cycle, I just gotta lay on bed & I spend some time reading Bible (may not be good for all if they are confused as it can be confusing as it is way beyond a typical 'logic' base, in otherwords, way above the human brain (mine at least) to comprehend all parts *John is a good/easy book to read*) & thinking about how lucky i am God has kept me alive for so long after all the insane stuff I have done to myself. I hate the BUPE & really dislike all pain meds that are addictive. They destroy lives...even if one really 'needs' them...they can be devistating. My heart was beating in jumps & was just really toxic to me as a whole. I wonder what I could have gotten accomplished in life If I had not been under the 'spell' of that stuff. I don't wanna stay in the thought too long, or I'm beating myself up, & that never really got me anywhere, except in deeper pain.
I think the BUPE is a wicked game to play w/ ones body/mind. The WD is just too insane compared to the 'fx' it offers. I dont mean to say it can't help some, as it can, but it is crucial (IMO), that the person who is about to take this 'miracle drug', is made aware &/or has a good plan on how to get off of it, even when they begin, as the item is exactly like they named it...just a 'SUB' (weather its SUBoxone, SUButex or straight bupe like what I was on). It may have felt better as it came from a DR.(if one had bought previously via illegal methods), & no fear of legal issues, but DR's are not Gods, & just cause they prescribe something (that many know little about), it still does not make it 'right', or even senseable/smart for all situations. But I know me, & I know that maybe I wasn't looking for 'help', maybe I was just looking for a 'sub' at the time. (this is time to be brutaly honest, or I'm just lying to self & headed to the dumps later & I don't wanna go back ever)

Whatever the case was, Im glad I'm off the garbage & getting my dreams, ideas, & wants in life back as well as a MUCH cleaner feeling overall. I am drained for energy a lot, but I force myself to shower & do all normal things in life, eventhough they may require a small 'pep-talk' as if each thing is a 'big deal' to do. But this is getting much less & days looking brighter. It is basicly a situation of seeing this as a 'loss', or seeing this as a 'gain' for ones self. If I can not convince myself this is a gain, then i said "Ok...I will give it one more day". That has seemed to work as far as convincing my head to 'stick in there', & also the support from the forum has helped.
I wanted to document this as best possible, so that someone else may save themselves from my mistakes. Im almost 40 & don't have much in life (from a typical view). I let the greedy take what they want from me. They can have it. Let the maggots feed while they can. I wouldn't wanna trade places w/ them.
But there are some things they can't take away. Unless one has this, it would be very easy to give-up (IMO), & just say 'ok, too much is too much / at least I tried'... So if anyone is thinking this...Give it another day. See if you can't get a glimpse of something sweet in life to keep you going. Reality was not nice to begin with for some of us, or we (speaking for myself), probably would not have decided life on the meds was better, yet this is the same insanity as anything else: First time (or more) felt good/fun/relief, so its a chase to maintain, yet it seemingly never happened again in looking back, years later and many $$ less.
:popcorn:
I'm rambling.... if anyone can take anything to help themselves, please do. As stated, these are just MY personal opinions/experiences, & all vary. I don't wish negative on anyone else. If it seems unbearable, thats common I guess, but so is getting better. So please keep that in mind. The pain will make you stronger. Its a proven fact. Not just my case, but others here prove that. Thanks again twisted, sub & tia. Lets kick this thing back in it's pit of misery it spawned in, in the mind of some money hungry scientist ( :evil: ) who is driving our Royle Royce we paid for, in exchange for us to be miserable & false 'evangelist' for &/or guinea-pigs for his prey on people who were 'addicted'/in pain. Yeah, I know it was my choice, not dr's fault, or anyone elses, & I am paying the consequences( :banghead: ). But they will have to come to face the truth in their lie to the world as well one day. I hope someone fixing to 'get cured' with SUB will read the truth from real guinea-pigs like me. Its a bad/nasty cage you may pay 100's/1000's for, then possibly be willing to pay twice as much to make the 'miracle drug' go away later. Ha...maybe not the case of all, but I know it has not been fun for me, but i'm not gonna let it beat me anymore.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby subster58 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:01 am

Texas, right on, awesome post. Gives many people hope, me included, so thanks
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:48 am

Yeah no kidding- solid post for sure.

I'm glad you're feeling better pal- keep up the good work!


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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby tw15t3d » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:06 pm

TexasChemist wrote:
As for pain, I kinda hate to say it, but the imodium is really a key factor in managing the mind as that seems to control most of the physical as well. I have some real solid days of no issues, but the cycles are still happening, yet they seem to be spaced out much longer than the initial week. I would say that the first week is horrible, so anyone thinking of 'jumping', be aware.....just may not be anyway around it. But after that, there are some good feelings that come. Pain is not bad/unbearable. I took lots of OTC pain meds the first week (like all possible w/o overdoing it, but the mix of the 3 main ones seemed to help a lot). I now just take 2 Aleve a day (& 4mg Imodium) & maybe some tylenol daytime &/or caffeine to help w oddball aches & pains. I really do not think the BUPE was doing a whole lot for real physical pain in looking back. Of course, when i took it, i wasn't WD'ing, so it made me 'feel better', but to answer twisted, I really think it being classed as a real pain reliever is not a valid way to deal w/ pain. At least not in the small doses I took. Maybe at a big dose it would help, but I am not looking to get back on it ever again.

If things get in an ugly cycle, I just gotta lay on bed & I spend some time reading Bible (may not be good for all if they are confused as it can be confusing as it is way beyond a typical 'logic' base, in otherwords, way above the human brain (mine at least) to comprehend all parts *John is a good/easy book to read*) & thinking about how lucky i am God has kept me alive for so long after all the insane stuff I have done to myself.


Well said, love your ideas...and good to see you being patient, because that seems to be the key during Sub detox.

A little tip about the Bible(because my mom is a diehard Christian): Find a Bible that is easy to understand...a really good one is: 'The Devotional Bible' by Max Lucado. It's actually a Bible that helps you understand it and has a ton of lessons and stories in it...here is a link to it:
http://ebookstore.sony.com/ebook/max-lu ... 0000274262

Hope you are doing well today.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am

Thanks to all. Hope all of you are doing good today. I appreciate the feedback & ideas/suggestions.

After the major pains have gone away, I am finding that the hardest thing to satisfy is my mind in being occupied with the same things it was once occupied with while on meds. Its just about impossible to think/or want to go back to doing the things I was doing before. I suppose I am still searching for self, & thats a selfish thing to do, but at the same time, very much needed in ones life. Hopefully it will not take me a life time to find me.

I am reading a real similar bible twisted. It is a HUGE difference in being able to read what your trying to, &/or understand it. I have spent a lot of time doing that, as it is known to contain most all of lifes answers in one form or another. So i am seeking....hoping to find.

I think Im going to spend a few days/nights or so in the woods. Maybe it will yield some answers or give me some ideas. As stated, it kinda feels like re-discovering life all over again, or being a kid. Thats a good thing in many ways, yet also at my age, it is kinda scary. Real bothersome to look at what I was doing before & know that I have no desire/want/(or even the same mentality), to go back to it. It was not a 'bad' thing, but just something I didn't like doing in the first place.

I have prayed for God to remove all the things in life that hold me down &/or make me 'waste away'. (without just removing the main problem 100%: ME)....
So far, I have stopped the BUPE, & almost stopped smoking (using alt. nicotine products) , & wife has asked for divorce. Ha.... I wonder what this is leading to. My understanding can't make sense of it 100%, but then again, I am not an onmipotent, nor even 'wise' in the slightest bit. I suppose I will just hold on & see what doors are opened for me. I will keep all who are in pain & fighting WDs in mind. Hope you all have a good day. Ty
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