On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:31 pm

TexasChemist wrote:i WANTED THIS OUT of me, and I wanted it out fast.


I've been feeling the same way pal. Never felt more toxic in all my life. Considering the crap I've done over the years that's sayin' something. I might have pushed myself a little too hard but it's too late to turn back now. You've got a solid attitude and if you've been hurtin' for a month and still stickin' with it than you're as strong a bull and you CAN do this!

Try to eat- even it's just nibble, snacks, fruit, toast, etc. I feel like crap but every time I eat I get a little stronger. My appetite crashed as of today but I'm forcing myself to eat. Keep at it okay?

Hang tough- this crap will pass and the garbage will be out of your body eventually.


Keep kickin' ass!

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:42 pm

Thanks subsucker & wasted time.
I hope you guys are doing ok as well.
I can't say i remember every regret, or every time i was an ugly/nasty/sick person, but over the span of the month, as well as this time, I will say that I have remembered most of the things & got them out. It was not fun, but had to be done if I was really gonna not end up typing this misery story again at a later date. It is actually quite a relief. Hardest part is fogiving yourself. And thats kinda a disrespect to God in a way... i mean, if he is perfect & gives us every breath, and he can forgive us instantly...who are we in our own self-rightousness to think we can't forgive ourselves? I don't mean to 'preach', but this process may offer some people a HUGE relief as it has me. I mean, I'm not taking the Immodium today, & today has been the best day so far. So, to say it didn't have any value would be a lie. It's so refreshing to let it all go & not be under the cloud of hope in lil pills.

I don't think anyone should have to go through what we have put ourselves through. But yet we did. We can do either 1 of 2 things: 1. Be miserable & ashamed & feel lowly/dirty & see where that gets one. OR 2. We can learn from it & help someone else with our own experiences. Life is too short to spend in misery & regret/ashamed.

I'm sure some have alternative beliefs, and thats fine. I am not that young any more, & it has taken all my life to get here. Hopefully the night will be good for us all. Anything is better than thinking that we spent the day making a lieing company like suboxone mfgr. richer, at our expense. I have a feeling they are going down & this might be the site/people to do it. I just wished they would educate all who prescribed as well as all who took.

I mean, my DR was good actually & told me to cut down & that there would come a day to 'pay the piper', yet never got into details of how big of a bill that would be that i owed 'the piper'. ha. But after hearing the other threads of the other DRs who tell people they will be on it forever & teach the patients to not ween down - it makes me sick. Plus the Mfgr. sure isn't advertising days/weeks/months (for some) of misery & pain. Yeah, this suboxone 'miracle' myth will get busted soon. I mean, if you call the company, they tell you every WD is 'odd' & 'not commonly reported'. Ha. Read these forums & know the truth. Just wished I would have read earlier.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby Special K » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:06 pm

TexasChemist wrote: people say you 'CANT DIE FROM DETOX', and that is an appealing rumor, as it is not common/typical to actually die in pain-med detox, but there is nothing in life that comes with an 'IMPOSSIBLE TO DIE WHILE IN..." guarantee.
I mean, panic attacks...they CAN & have resulted in death....they (medical people/pharma-companies) just lie to people.. The key is that they 're-classify' the event...such as "Well, they had a heart-attack"...duh...Yeah, they got overwhelmed & stated to panic & it was too much resulting in heart-attack... This silly myth of 'IMPOSSIBLE to DIE WHILE...(any event in life)" is just ridiculious.


Texas ~ How did you get in my head?

TexasChemist wrote:I am still having these 'fit' like episodes of severe depression & terminal doom....I get so cold of bones, yet so hot of skin & literally just 'pass out'. I mean, It overwhelms me & I just wake up an hour later, suprised i'm still alive w/ body seeming to be put through so much grief. Has anyone else had this WD effect?


right here :wave:

I've heard it gets better. So I just keep hanging on. You do the same. Just keep hanging on.

Kat
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby Justjules13 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:17 pm

Hi Tex,
Hadn't had a chance to say hi...
Yea..it's pretty crazy what a lot of people who prescribe Sub or meth think. A had a counselor, at a clinic in Texas BTW, tell me to rent a couple of videos and expect to feel like I had the flu, if I jumped from 80mg meth. I knew better...but it's amazing to me that someone who works at a methadone clinic would say such a thing. I think it shows how many people get off meth...but boy, on "admits" day, the place was packed. There's something really wrong with allowing kids with a low dose Pill habit to get on subs or meth, but it's also wrong not to allow heavy users access to it.
Ok..just wanted to say hi.
Jules
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:45 pm

Thanks special K & jules. I am glad that today has not been a horrible day. Its really not bad now. Kinda rough in the morning, but I have done some things to kick in the natural endorphins like mild exercise( but not jumping into lifting weights yet of course), & working out in the sunshine a lil bit, and listening to some music. Things I used to do before i fell in the shadow of Buprenorphine & its longer-term effects. Eating has also seemed to help. Its not 'too bad to bear' today & if I can do this, then anyone can.

I'm not saying its over, but I am much better than I was when I first entered the forum. I was more shocked than anything at how harsh it was & was even more terrified to read some other forums of the 'neverending-seemingly-horribleness'. But, the truth of what 'normal' is, may still be in question as I dont know at this point, but I think I'm pretty close to there. I have some depression w/or w/o meds. So I'm just happy to be where i am. The 'fits' didn't happen today. I feel stronger & if anyone has this burdon, & has things holding them back from the dreaded detox - I would advise that there not too many more things in life that will be as impotant as being yourself in life & not dependant upon some chemical that keeps you bound in an invisible (to self) cage. Others do see it & they are usually turned away.

I spent a lot of time in prayer & God is Great. I don't understand him, but I dont have to understand him to know when he is working in lives. The detox is like a demon leaving your body. It is fighting so hard to stay & it is one heck of a fight to get that bloodsucker out. Day 2 & 3 & 4 compared to now = 100Xs better. :D
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby tw15t3d » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:07 pm

Hey Texas,
Good to see you moving along ok! When you are saying you are overwhelmed with emotions, I would have to say the depression you have is most likely part of it. This crazy up and down hill of every emotion you have shouldn't last you but a week-week and a half.

TexasChemist wrote:I mean, my DR was good actually & told me to cut down & that there would come a day to 'pay the piper', yet never got into details of how big of a bill that would be that i owed 'the piper'. ha. But after hearing the other threads of the other DRs who tell people they will be on it forever & teach the patients to not ween down - it makes me sick. Plus the Mfgr. sure isn't advertising days/weeks/months (for some) of misery & pain. Yeah, this suboxone 'miracle' myth will get busted soon. I mean, if you call the company, they tell you every WD is 'odd' & 'not commonly reported'. Ha. Read these forums & know the truth. Just wished I would have read earlier.


There are some doctors out there that induce and ween within a week..unfortunately there are not enough. And we most likely will never get to speak out against big pharma because they have a lot of power. All you have to do is go on google, and search negative aspects of Suboxone, and you can tell that it is being regulated.

Congrats to days of reality!
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:37 pm

You're sounding better already! You know what that does for me? It makes me feel a little better too.


Thanks champ!

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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:35 am

thanks twisted & sub. Hope you guys (all) are doing ok. I know that I am doing a lot better.
Things are not 'perfect' as I don't even know what that is as it is so far above me, but I know things are 'better' each day. Anyone struggling, please take anything anything you may find to be of value & use it to help your situation (if thats possible). I know that the support & help from others is a great thing in this forum. I will also say that just 'venting' a bit can help also, and thanks to all for no criticism. Thats one thing nearly imposssible to find in any forum online.

Trouble sleeping is about the worst thing at this point, but thats tolerable. I just hated the 'hollow/cold bones' feeling & that has seemingly vanished. I am grateful for a quicker rebound than expected. I know all bodies/minds/conditions will vary from person to person, as will their surroundings, but If anyone is determined/convicted to stop this trash, then it is possible & can/will happen for the person.

Thanks again to all who have offered suggestions/experience/encouraements, as they are appreciated. I think the hardest physical part is behind me. It was an aweful 4 to 5 days, and started getting better after that. I have been acting like i just turned 21 for almost 20 years = each day was all about me (with exception of some years in system). It has taken a toll on me, but I think it is time to grow up as I look around me & see that lifestyle got me nothing. I can count friends without using hands. ha. I was selfish & hope to get outside of self & live life w/o the burdon of 'relief' from pharma-mfgrs dictating me/others around me.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby tw15t3d » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:02 pm

Hey Texas,
Good you are doing better! It can only get better from here, although you will have some off and rough days, and you will be dealing with fatigue for a good amount of time, sadly..but that is the most testing part of sub WD's is your endurance to the length of it. I am sure with all this positive outlook you have you will turn out fine!
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:35 pm

I'm hangin tough pal- thanks for looking out.

You sound better with every post- I hope that trend continues!

Take it easy on the self-bashing; that's just another dead-end road. It's time to treat yourself kindly. Taking care of one's self is NOT selfish, ya know? There ain't a person here who doesn't have a list of regrets as long as thier arm so don't think you have the market cornered in the self-loathing department.

Let me put it another way- I don't think any less of you than you'd think of me if we were to swap regret lists. Cut yourself some slack- you're changing it up every minute that you're staying clean.

10-4?

Hang tough champ!


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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:12 pm

Hey all. Thanks for encouragement. I have to admit that I ended up with a horrible day yesterday, but the good part is: Yesterday is over.
However, I am not having a good day today either. It has seemed like day 1/2/3 all over again.
I don't understand the grip this must take on the body/mind/organs.

I will say that the immodium makes a HUGE difference, but i have tried to keep amount small as I am scared of what it will feel like coming off of it, and wonder if it actually prolongs the WDs? I mean, if anyone has experience, can they tell me if there will come a time when the BUPE detox is gone, then im just coming off immodium? Or is this trick just prolonging the inevitable? As stated, it has made a huge difference & have tried to limit it to 3-4 mg a day, some days less, but today is not good & goosebumps back & just an unrealistic type of pain. Walking like hunchback. I got some real bad news in mail & need to pull myself together from this, yet mixed w/ what Im going through, it just seems like I not getting any better. If anyone can tell me more of the Immodium vs. 'Inevitable WDs', please do. I toughed it out what felt like a long time, & am just shocked/confused as to how things could go from 'OK' to horror & gotta take poopie meds to not be in fetal position in agony.

Sorry, i was only gonna post/try to at least, post only positive things to encourage others, but as days go by, I am wondering if this is really going to ever allow me to be a human again that is not in misery 100% worn-out & having to talk-myself into just getting off bed to do minor things...and this is with 3 mg Immodium.

Any honest advice would be appreciated. Thanks again.
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby subster58 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:44 pm

Hi Texas, major congrats on getting off this motherfucker, soulsucking, evil, devil drug from hell.
The bastards that push it should be shot in the balls. My MD started me at 32mg, and I was so addicted by the time I found this site. Been detoxing for 2 months. Jumped off too high a dose .25mg, which I had only been on for 4-5 days. started back on .25mg, suckers are so powerful and its poison. I too want it out of my life, all drugs out of my life. I too was decieved abouth the "miracle drug", sorry for the rant on your thread.
You are doing great. Gives alot of people hope, so thank you so much
Hang Tough, you're doing it
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:08 pm

Hi Tex...how many days clean are you? It seems sub WDs last at least a couple weeks...and it's seems like its one good day, one bad, for a time after that. Everyone is different, but you should expect to feel shitty for a couple weeks. Don't let some bad news set you back or change your resolve...it takes time to change, be patient.
J
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:38 pm

:D Thanks Sub & hope you can get rid of this thing too.
Thanks just. I will be patient.

I looked up the info online & figured out how I felt so good the other night.

Ha...this sounds crazy, but it is very effective & true. I feel 10x's better now.
The Immodium is opiod, but not CNS touching unless activated by something else, so yes, it help to take the Immodium, that is for sure. However, if this is taken at a semi-decent-dose (for me was just 4mg), and then black pepper is eaten, it will allow a cross to CNS. This is where my '100% normal' (good feelings) came from the other day. (ha and now, now that i know this).
I had ate huge bag of Xtra-pepper Beef Jerkey. The Black pepper (and mixed w chili peppers) will allow the Immodium to cross to CNS, thus producing a much better ease of WD. The chlli peppers will also kick in natural endorphins & together, ha....MUCH RELIEF!

If anyone is suffering, I would encourage them to try this, but Im not a medical doctor practicing medicine over the net. And if someone is allergic to this, then of course, do not use the mixture. But I have to say that is it the most relief I have felt in a long time. A bag of x-pepper jerkey is not required, as anyone can add xtra pepper(s) to anything & eat it. Hope this helps someone. I looked for other things as well to mix to give this 'CNS cross /opiate effect', & the only other thing is quinine & Prilosec OTC, but I have not tested these mixtures, just the black pepper w chili pepper & Immodium = Much relief if suffering. :D

((this may be a known fact in forum, I just have not read it anywhere...if just a repeat of a known fact, ha. no big deal))
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby toto » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:01 pm

TexasChemist, will the immodium with just plain black pepper will help or do you need the chili peppers too?
And what is the CNS ??

By the way I read a few of your posts & last Sunday's post said you were worried about 'preachin".
It doesn't bother me.

By the way... With God all things are possible. :angel:
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby tw15t3d » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:33 pm

TexasChemist wrote:Hey all. Thanks for encouragement. I have to admit that I ended up with a horrible day yesterday, but the good part is: Yesterday is over.
However, I am not having a good day today either. It has seemed like day 1/2/3 all over again.
I don't understand the grip this must take on the body/mind/organs.

I will say that the immodium makes a HUGE difference, but i have tried to keep amount small as I am scared of what it will feel like coming off of it, and wonder if it actually prolongs the WDs? I mean, if anyone has experience, can they tell me if there will come a time when the BUPE detox is gone, then im just coming off immodium? Or is this trick just prolonging the inevitable? As stated, it has made a huge difference & have tried to limit it to 3-4 mg a day, some days less, but today is not good & goosebumps back & just an unrealistic type of pain. Walking like hunchback. I got some real bad news in mail & need to pull myself together from this, yet mixed w/ what Im going through, it just seems like I not getting any better. If anyone can tell me more of the Immodium vs. 'Inevitable WDs', please do. I toughed it out what felt like a long time, & am just shocked/confused as to how things could go from 'OK' to horror & gotta take poopie meds to not be in fetal position in agony.

Sorry, i was only gonna post/try to at least, post only positive things to encourage others, but as days go by, I am wondering if this is really going to ever allow me to be a human again that is not in misery 100% worn-out & having to talk-myself into just getting off bed to do minor things...and this is with 3 mg Immodium.

Any honest advice would be appreciated. Thanks again.



Hey Texas,
I have to admit, I have been in the middle of an Immodium taper, and yes you will have the some opiate withdrawals from Immodium. But they are mild and personally they have lasted me 2-3 days until I am feeling better and ready for my next taper. I taper half a pill every 3 days. I don't think it pro-long's sub withdrawals though, Sub is the mountain that you are working to get over, and Immodium is just a little hill compared to that. Personally the Immodium has been worth it for me, as I have to run after a 3yr old all day. Maybe in your case, don't take too many, and only take them for a couple weeks, so maybe you won't have much of a dependence to them.

Has the Sub withdrawals really made you go in to a fetal position?

I have never heard of this 'Black Pepper' theory, but if you are looking for something to cross your blood brain barrier, well wouldn't that turn it into something like Vicodin?
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:26 pm

Hey all. Thanks for more advice and clarity on the WD of immodium.
As for the black pepper, no, it really is not required to have the chili peppers for a little added relief. But I read that they will help kick in natural endorphines, so I ate them, and felt quite a relief, but for the Central Nervous System to actually get any real 'relief', there are some things mentioned that may help that relief come, & sorry if it sounds like a 'dope-fiend' move, (haha), but if anyone is in some ultra nasty place in WD & about to 'crack', (yes, unfortunately I think the multi-year stretch of non-stop meds (not a day w/o, as I was prescribed these) has made the WDs a bit harsher on me, as well as a fast taper), but this helped me. (as i was not loading up on Immodium as some do...So I'm sure the relief is mainly in immodium, but the extra was quite a relief & did not fade/come on ultra fast, but I could tell something was different as I felt 'normal' for a good while)

If you look this up on the wikipedia link, you can find this probably to make more sense than how I try to explain it. I was curious as to how I went from feeling so good the other day to feeling so bad the next 2 days, & the reason was there in wikipedia (under the generic name for immodium), so i put it to the test as that made sense kinda, and today it has brought me out of super-negative (about to crack) feeling. I know all bodies will vary, but for me this was an excellent 'lift' I needed. I do guess that it may create a 3rd chemical possibly if it enters the CNS, but it doesn't say that in the wiki listing.

As stated, they list other stuff, but i just know what has helped me. Hopefully not a new 'addiction', but maybe a lil relief when things got unbearable as they have for me at times in these last week. I did eat quite a bit of the peppered jerkey, (4 oz bag), plus i drank a lot of water, and continue to drink a lot of water as it is a known source of life. :idea:
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby tw15t3d » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:53 pm

Yeah I just read it and this was on the bottom:

Crossing the blood-brain barrier

Concurrent administration of P-glycoprotein inhibitors such as quinidine and its other isomer quinine (although much higher doses must be used), PPIs like omeprazole (Prilosec OTC) and even black pepper (piperine as the active ingredient) could potentially allow loperamide to cross the blood-brain barrier. It should however be noted that only quinidine with loperamide was found to produce respiratory depression, indicative of central opioid action.[18]

Pretty interesting and I am shocked that there aren't warnings on the OTC labels about this! Well hang in there, I was on non-stop opioids for 7 years and I got through this, I know you will be able to as well!
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby SubSucker » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:13 pm

Sorry you had a rough couple days brother- push on through it. I can tell you're tough- you can do it!

Good job keeping your Lope dose low and tapering it ASAP. I've read of folks eating 100+mg. I'll take a zero on the Toxic Megacolon, thanks...

I know it's hard but try to occupy your mind- it helps me SO much. The busier I am the less I pay attention to how I feel.

Are you eating and drinking a lot of water? Good stuff.

I hope you feel better right away- try to take it as easy as you can. Worrying won't change a damn thing- stay in the moment/look ahead...

Hang tough- you're kicking ass!

-SubSucker
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Re: On day 4 from 4yr hydrocodone+ 2 year buprenorphin

Postby TexasChemist » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:28 pm

Thanks twisted & sub. The evenings are much smoother than the mornings.
The nights are pretty bad too after the initial 2 hours of sleep i get, as the rest is pretty much tossing & turning.
Mornings are real bad for me, but thats probably cause i am vitamin/med/immodium depleted & know I just got 2 hours of nightmares & spent the rest of night trying to forget them & have to face another day...
Was so bad last night, I couldnt even imagine something as sick as what was in my dream to even be in hell. Thats how bad it was, & that was with 2 melatonin. And I have been close to hell in a NDE sort of way (but thats a whole other struggle...cant even start to describe it here, but some say i should write a book. ha)

Having to lower the ativan below norm. as I went nuts the first few days & had no idea this would take so long. I really thought it would be over in about 4 days... haha...thats why I posted this....now its even longer and its STILL not over. SUBSUX.
But I am hanging in there. Just so weak/fatigue in the days...its a scary weak feeling, but I will do the immodium thingy earlier tomorrow so maybe I can be worth something. I am more comfortable taking it after hearing WDs are not near as bad as the original beast.

Thanks to all who have shared experience/hope to help my selfishness. Hope to get out of self soon. Hope all are well tonight. Stay strong.
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