49 Days Off Subs from 8mgs PAWS Post Acute Withdrawal

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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:11 pm

Cheeps,

None of what you said sounds crazy whatsoever. And thank you for the kind words. It’s difficult to show inflection with text but it cheered me up when I read it earlier this evening. I wanted to reply earlier but I was at work and then my girlfriend came over after work and cooked me dinner. Now I’m in bed watching old Star Trek on Netflix and wanted to reply. I still have that weird helpless feeling I had earlier but I’m in a comfortable place, it’s raining lightly outside, and my anxiety has subsided (for the most part).

I get what you’re talking about with the smells, as I quit smoking shortly after quitting subs and my sense of smell returned quickly. I’ve always disliked certain smells – wet cat food makes me feel like retching but I smell it every day because my old man cat needs more wet than dry food nowadays – but they seem more intense now. Earlier today I was taking the trash out at work and something in the dumpster made me feel like barfing. I had dry heaves for a few moments but it passed. This happens all the time and I hate it. It almost makes me want to start smoking again so my sense of smell declines but I know that’s stupid since I’ve been about two months off cigarettes.

I’ve thought about telling my girlfriend but I don’t think it’s a trust issue with her, I think it’s a trust issue with people in general. I haven’t told anybody in the analog world and I probably won’t. I do love this woman and want to build a life with her. She doesn’t want children and neither do I. It’s not that I don’t like children but I just don’t want them. I worry that I can barely take care of myself so how could I take care of a child? We’ve been together for over two years and aside from the drinking issue, which seems to come in waves where she’ll drink excessively for a while and then it’ll subside, things are good. She has her issues but don’t we all?

And you’re not wrong about being guarded. I know I have trust issues, as I said above, but I don’t think those will ever go away. It’s weird because after I quit subs I’ve found that my interest in certain things has declined and that my tastes seem to have changed. I still like some heavy music but I haven’t liked listening to anything too aggressive lately. I posted the Minutemen on here yesterday and that’s about the heaviest kind of punk/hardcore I want to hear lately. I haven’t been to a show in a while and I don’t miss them much. It’s almost like I still like that kind of music in theory but can’t listen to it. I don’t know why this is but maybe it is facing the kid inside me, telling him to move aside as this different version of me is in the pilot’s seat now. That probably sounds weird. Maybe it’s just that I don’t want anything angry around right now since I’m still kicking subs. Yes, the acute phase ended but now I’m in the PAWS phase and it’s kind of kicking my ass. Today I listened to Nick Drake, which is sad bastard music, but it helped a little. I also listened to Ry Cooder’s Paris, Texas soundtrack again twice. I read somewhere that Dave Grohl said it’s his favorite record of all time. That made me chuckle.

I bring up the heavy, aggressive music because it was so helpful and comforting when I discovered it as a teenager. It was mine, my mother couldn’t relate to it, and punk was just something that I felt a link to. Bands like Minutemen had intelligent lyrics and thanks to them (and other bands) I found great books and movies. I look at the world differently because of it and I’m thankful I had it but maybe I don’t need it anymore. Then again, this might just be a symptom of PAWS, like I said earlier, and I’m just not interested in anything abrasive currently.

I think the better life I want for myself is mostly professional, as I still despise my current job and want to do something else. I’ve always wanted to teach but I’m sticking to the advice you gave a while back and not make any drastic moves until six months have passed. The pay at my current job is decent but I know people make more doing the same thing at other places. The upside is that it’s close to my house so I don’t drive far at all, I’m pretty good at it, and I’m kind of indispensible there at the moment. The amount and variety of work I do there would require more people – and it would also require people that are highly motivated and will do the work of multiple people (which I do). Plus, I know how to perform just about every job at the place and can fill in for most people. They take advantage of this and they used to have three people doing my job. Now it’s just two of us and one person needed stitches last week. He’s can’t do about half his job for another week or so. I’m just tired of working there and feel there’s no future with the company. It’s a small business and small businesses are notorious for taking advantage of their workers. I don’t want a corporate job, as I doubt I could get one, but at least corporate jobs offer a kind of stability not present at the small business level. Then again, large businesses infamously screw over their workers and lay them off. I feel like I’m stuck in Catch-22 and Major Major Major is going to always be out when he’s in and is always in when he’s out.

By the way, did I mention that I hate PAWS? =)

I find the worst thing about PAWS is how I’ll feel a sense of dread or anxiety but it’s like I can’t do anything about it. It’s almost like being trapped in a feeling. I’ll stare at the foliage around me and zone out but the thoughts are still there and it’s like being locked in a prison inside my head. I don’t want these feelings but I’m stuck with them, having them envelop me and color my entire day. Today was one of those days, where even when I was busy at work I felt lethargic, depressed, and anxious. Sometimes work is a good distraction but it can also intensify those feelings, as I’ll feel trapped in my job. Then again, being alone and not working can make me feel the same way. It’s a no-win situation. I just keep telling myself that it’s PAWS, as I didn’t feel this way when I was sober for a while back over 18 months ago. I liked being sober and didn’t feel have this feeling. I also wasn’t quitting subs back then, I was quitting hydro’s (SAO’s).

I think I’m going to get some sleep. Cheeps, thank you for cheering me up today. I’m still taking the amino acids twice a day but I’m wondering if I should take others to help with my endorphins and balancing my serotonin levels. I’m taking L-Tyrosine and L-Glutamine coupled with a B6 Complex capsule (twice a day), a multivitamin, and a probiotic (also twice a day). I’ve never cared about this stuff before and I like how the “sober” me (as I’m not really sober since I still smoke pot and drink on the weekends sometimes) is interested in being healthy but I don’t want to become dependent on supplements for my overall health, at least in the long term. I don’t know, I might be thinking stupidly.

Anne, RC, keep on keeping on and don’t give up. I’ll check in again tomorrow morning but I need some sleep. I’m going to post a track below from the Paris, Texas soundtrack. It’s part of a conversation between two of the main characters. About 2-3 minutes in the music starts and complements the story beautifully. I listened to this song twice today and the story, told by Harry Dean Stanton, is so full of emotion that I can’t help feeling awed by it every time I hear it. The version in the film is better but also requires seeing the movie. Goodnight everybody and keep in the fight.

Cheeps, thank you again. Seriously, I mean it. :-)

And Falling Slowly has great lyrics. I’m not a big American Idol fan but that lady can sing.

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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby cheeps » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:32 am

Nice story.....the whole thing seems like a dream song. I kinda felt like I was flying thru the story.....watching for I'm not sure what. My brother listened to Ry cooder all the time.

I'm glad you cheered up....you are so good at expressing how I feel.....i just love that. I have the worst time putting my deeper thoughts into words. When you post it's like, holy shit! that's it!

While we are all individuals, I feel that some of the absolute Shit we think about during PAWS is the same. The brain is doing something. I'm not a scientist by no means but I swear it must be an emotional tap....or slap up yonder. Something brings out the base feelings of gloom and doom. I guess it's the hippocampus asking for opiates and not getting them....it pouts until it realizes that "too bad, so sad", it ain't getting anymore. Then the amygdala pipes up and stirs the pot. Healing the brain must about these two getting their collective shit together. I wonder why it takes so long? I know it's temporary but why does it come and go? Why does it cause the intrusive thoughts of doom and gloom. :gaah: :gaah: :gaah: :shrug:

Lordy my eyes are slamming shut too.

Yup, you are the man. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:59 am

It’s day 70 and I feel better than yesterday. I think I can attribute that to a decent night’s sleep. I fell asleep shortly after midnight and slept until just before 8am (almost eight full hours of sleep for a change). It was also overcast this morning so I had an assist from the clouds and I think that’s why I didn’t wake up with the sun. The rainy weather that’s going to be here for the next month or so isn’t ideal but it’ll keep things cooler and maybe I’ll actually get some decent sleep for a while. Maybe that’ll help me get back on a regular sleep schedule. I also avoided any sleep aids last night (I used melatonin on Sunday night) and I’m not sure if that was helpful or not. Really, I’ve been experimenting with trying everything – Benadryl, melatonin, Nyquil, valerian root – and it’s hit or miss. Some nights I sleep well with nothing and some nights I need assistance. The human body is a weird thing.

Before Paris, Texas I was familiar with Ry Cooder’s name but hadn’t heard anything by him. Cheeps, I sent that playlist to my phone so I have something to listen to today at work. Thank you for that. I’m sick of everything on my iPod and end up using YouTube videos at work a good portion of the day. The negative is that it eats up my battery but I charge it up at lunch, as I usually sit in my car in the shade, eat, and either check in on here or just try to decompress from work. Today isn’t going to be fun at work but I can’t remember a day where it was “fun.” It’s only Tuesday but I have to keep reminding myself that I’m ten weeks sub-free today. Typing that out makes me smile a little; feeling like I’ve reached a milestone and the day isn’t terrible (yet).

Doom and gloom is a great way to describe things a good amount of the time. I can relate to an overwhelming sense of dejection but sometimes I can’t place a finger on exactly why I feel that way. I think that’s why I say it’s PAWS, as the problems I do have in my life haven’t brought on this feeling before and I have to continually recognize that I’m going through a drastic life change at the moment. There’s nothing else that it can be. Like I said above, I have problems I’m trying to solve with my life but these troubles existed before I started using hydro’s again or before I took subs (when I was “sober”) and I never felt that sense of anxiety, panic, or fear before I stopped subs. Plus, I read a good deal about detoxing subs and watched a good amount of videos while I was in the acute phase (and beyond that). The information online is spotty, as some of it is pro-sub and some is anti-sub, but I just remember how I felt during the acute phase and anybody that said they were feeling great after jumping, especially on YouTube videos, I felt wasn’t being sincere. There were some videos where people would say they felt great after 40 days and then they stopped posting videos. I still wonder if those people relapsed or if they stayed clean. I hope they stayed off subs but you can’t help wondering.

I can’t lie and say I’m not frightened of the PAWS phase, especially since I’ve read that it can last up to two years or go on indefinitely. I don’t want to feel this way in a year and I think I’ll lose my mind if I’m still like this in 2016. Shit, I doubt I’ll enjoy feeling this way after the summer but by the time August is almost over I’ll be at six months free of subs. I hope I can make it that long. I don’t think I’ll relapse, as that isn’t really an option and I can’t allow it to be, but I fear I’ll end up damaging my life in some other way – like hurting relationships or my job – and that scares me. The future is where we’re all headed but I can’t deny that I’m intimidated by it. I’ve always thought that there are people that walk with their head held high and those that look at the ground. I’m trying to keep looking towards the sky but I can’t help looking at the ground constantly.

There’s a part in that story from Paris, Texas where Stanton’s character says, “He wished he were far away, lost in a deep, vast country where nobody knew him, somewhere without language or streets.” I think I can relate to that on a daily basis. I rarely ever wake up feeling optimistic, even on the good days. Some days I wake up and wish that I died in my sleep so I don’t have to keep going through this or face the future. I’m going to be 36 in a little over a month and that prospect keeps me fearful. I’m pretty much halfway through the average male life span in the United States and I don’t think I have much to show for it. Yes, I have a home, a job, some friends, and a few dollars saved up but that doesn’t really amount to very much. All those things can disappear very quickly and that terrifies me. There’s a certain sense of trepidation with the future and I’m not sure I’m equipped to deal with any uncertainties or major problems that might come along.

I think that might be PAWS talking or at least making those emotions more intense. I just see friends of mine that are the same age or younger and have so much more to show for themselves. It’s not even about how much money you have, as I’m not interested in being rich and don’t believe I ever will be. I don’t subscribe to that American Dream ideal that I’m just a millionaire in waiting but I also know that money is necessary to exist. A little while back I was obsessed with the documentary Jodorowsky’s Dune, not because of the material (although I would’ve loved to see his version of Dune, especially over David Lynch’s awful movie) but because of Jodorowsky’s enthusiasm. He was in his early to mid 80’s when they made that documentary (he’s 86 now) and I want to be that full of life if I make it that far, I want to feel things in a similar manner. I don’t know how to achieve that. Anyways, there’s a scene in that documentary where he talks about money and it conveyed perfectly how I feel about it. It’s too bad I was raised on Star Trek, as that’s a world without money, without poverty or hunger, where people aren’t controlled by a paycheck but by their ambitions and talents, where people can pursue what makes them happy and what will make the society they live in better. I feel that’s the world I want to contribute towards making as I know I’ll never see it and the path I’m currently on won’t make that happen. I’m a cog in the machine currently and I don’t help people do anything but remain in stasis, remain a part of a system that doesn’t promote love or personal fulfillment.

Anyways, I need to get into work. Cheeps, thank you for understanding and being a great person. You helped me considerably yesterday and I am grateful. Anne, RC, and anybody else I’m forgetting, please hang in there and keep it up. RC’s over the two-month mark and Anne, you’re only nine days away from two months. These are fantastic places to be. Okay, maybe not fantastic but you’re so far removed from where you were. Please keep at it and don’t give up.
Here’s that clip I was talking about with the director Alejandro Jodorowsky. I’ll check in again at lunch if I can. :-)

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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:57 pm

Still day 70 and I’m at lunch. I had a few projects this morning/early afternoon and now I have to fill in for somebody for the remainder of the afternoon. It’s also the most boring and uninspiring part of the job and it’s cold up there. Yes, it’s 88 degrees outside but that room is an icebox. I was in there before lunch and had the chills like I was still in the acute days. Thankfully, I have a hoodie in my back seat. It’s weird because I don’t get the chills very often anymore, if at all (I had them on Memorial Day last), but my sensitivity to temperature is still high. I’m not sure if that’s because of detoxing or because I’m just naturally disposed to warmer climates.

Sitting here, taking bites of a sandwich, and typing this, I still can’t believe I’m at 10 weeks today. I’m not trying to gloat but bring up something that was terrible during the acute phase: an appetite. I think it started in the second week or the end of the first week but suddenly my stomach was wrecked, I couldn’t keep food down, and my only nutritional solace was Boost shakes. After my appetite returned and the stomach issues subsided, I found that many foods smelled disgusting and turned my stomach. Over the last 30 days or so I’ve had my appetite back and I gained back most of the weight I lost. It’s one of those things you don’t think about, as we eat every day (hopefully three times a day at least) or get hungry during the day, but when you lose the ability to eat, which is necessary for survival, it can get a little scary. I knew it was sub withdrawal but I was afraid I had some kind of other illness, as information on the Internet was scant about this particular symptom.

I don’t really know what else to type at the moment and my lunch break is ending soon. I’m not having a bad day like yesterday but today isn’t amazing either. I’m proud that I solved a problem we were having at work but don’t like that I’m filling in for somebody for the rest of the day, tethered to a computer, typing nonsense and answering phones for the next few hours. I know it could be worse but interacting with strangers, especially strangers with problems they’re normally upset about, isn’t my idea of a good day. I know I have to “mainstream” and begin accepting that I’m a part of this society and one of the things I have to do is interact with people but today it sounds like an overwhelming task.

Again, I know this is the PAWS talking, as I never really minded it before I stopped taking hydro’s or subs. Anne, RC, Cheeps, I hope you’re all hanging in there (especially Anne, as I haven’t seen anything from her since yesterday). I know her kids are out of school so she probably has her hands full but I still worry. Also, RC, I know you’ve been busy lately but check in when you can, let us know that you’re still in the game. I hope you’re doing well, especially since you’re over the two-month mark now. Okay, I need to get back into work before I get in trouble and the rain starts up.

Speaking of rain, this song made me smile earlier and made a difficult job a little easier. :-)

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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby rc51guy » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:25 pm

Im still here and in the game yup! Work has been nuts and I've been working on a project after hours to help out my brother. Feels good to be getting things done instead of procrastinating. But its been tough to get online right now. I dont even remember what day I'm at. I would have to look at a calendar. lol. I dont feel terrific by any means, but I dare say I am being more productive and functioning better then when I was on subs.

Hows everything been with you? Day 70 is huge man. HUGE. I have to assume your right around the corner from really feeling better for longer periods. Gotta be!


Anne!?!? Whats up?!
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:10 pm

RC,

The energy is getting back to normal but the PAWS are still a major pain. I also find that I'm more productive when I enjoy what I'm doing but isn't that how it is with everything? I'm really proud of being at day 70 and thank you.

Being busy is good and I'm glad you have something(s) to pour your energy into. It does help. I want to make a career change but Cheeps' advice, where I don't make any drastic life changes for six months, hasn't left my mind. I'm already making a major life change by quitting subs (and opiates in general) and it's entirely possible my disdain for my job is PAWS related. I don't think it is since I've wanted to do something else for a long while but I need to have some patience and not rush into anything. Being impatient is a major part of this process and I can hold out until August. I can't believe I'll be at six months at the end of August and three months in just 20 days.

I'm glad you're still off the subs. If you think I'm turning a corner you're doing the same. You're at day 62-63 I believe and that's so awesome. Keep it up.

And where's Anne? I hope you're okay, Anne. Check in when you can. :-)
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby cheeps » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:19 pm

Rain here too.....we must not live to far away from each other. :lol:

Yup, CONGRATS on TEN WEEKS!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: However bad your PAWS gets, it does let up about 4-6 months....and it doesn't go away in a snap...it fades. All that crap you are feeling is PAWS related. It seems to exacerbate the doom and gloom....wish it heightened the positive but exercise does that. Are you doing any of that? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :twisted: :blowme: :lol:
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby amery2u » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:42 pm

Yuppers;

Just got WiFi back a bit ago; posted on my short thread.. Kid got a new TV and wouldn't wait for dad to hook up the Wii and the Xbox, so "mommy" tried, and EPIC failed. Sister at Cedar Point all day with band..no techno-queen.
Loong story short; I'm back on, but it's late; very. I'm still okay, as I see are you.. YOU AND I AND RC are just in the FINAL JOG, methinks.
Sorry so late; more tomorrow, providing these kids don't make me fix something I can't!
Hugs on your TENNERS!
WOW...AWESOME.
it is.. truly.
ttys,
thankx for caring!
Anne :)
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:59 am

Cheeps,

I wish I was exercising more but I’m not. I try to take a walk every evening after work but the last few days it’s either been raining or I had to go grocery shopping. It’s Wednesday and I haven’t been out walking once this week after work. That’s a little frustrating but then again I don’t get off work until somewhere between 7-8pm (on a good day). Luckily, the summer solstice is coming up in a few weeks so we’re going to have longer days for a while, which means the chances of getting a walk in after work looks more promising.

I kept thinking about joining a gym but with my work schedule I know I’d never go and that money would be wasted. My job is pretty physically demanding and I seem to hate the thought of doing manual labor but enjoy it when I’m doing it, like I’m more in the moment. I know the way to increase endorphins is going to be exercise but I can get stupid at times, hoping there’s a quicker fix and thinking like an addict.

And for the record, I’m in Florida. :-/

Anne,

I read about your networking debacle yesterday evening but didn’t have a chance to get back online until this morning. Okay, that’s not totally true (I watched stuff on Netflix last night and I had company for a while) but I didn’t have time to write to anybody or do anything extensively online. I’m sorry your son’s gaming situation was a hot mess but it looks like everything is working. I also saw on your thread that your neighbor offered you a Tramadol. I’ve never taken those but I think I’d stay away from them regardless. I just looked them up and they were made a Schedule IV Controlled Substance within the last year. I can’t say if they have addictive properties but if they’re controlled now then there’s something to them.

I think we’re getting through the woods with this but Cheeps said yesterday that PAWS will probably last about 4-6 months and then slowly fades. At the moment that seems like an eternity but I’m on day 71, you’re only 8 days away from your two month anniversary, and RC’s only a week behind me. Cheeps hits six months in three days. I keep thinking about where we all are and how I might be a few days ahead of you and RC but I’m over three months behind Cheeps. It makes it seem possible to get through the next few months, as we’re all in a different spot but have the same goal and it’s not about who gets there first but that we get there.

Yesterday wasn’t a bad day but it felt like I was moving between feeling optimism and pessimism. I was taking out the trash last night and I was thinking about my thoughts during the day and felt like I was being a bit bipolar yesterday. I’d feel the sense of doom and sorrow and then I was positive about certain things. It would fluctuate back and forth, depending on what situation I was in, but it wasn’t like I was being pulled back and forth and more like I was floating through different states of mind. I’m not bipolar or at least wasn’t before so I know it’s not that. I just think it’s my brain trying to get somewhere but the GPS is shit and Siri is telling it to take toll roads. I’ve said it before but getting off opiates is a major life change for me and even with my opiate-free periods I’ve been taking these things for quite a while.

I need to get into work. I’m glad everybody is doing well and is still marching along. Anne, I’m glad you didn’t relapse. You’ve been better over the last few days but you weren’t having a good time there for a while, hence the worry.

Sorry but my brain feels kind of stupid today. I'm hoping that fog clears up.

And I woke up with this song in my head for some reason.

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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby amery2u » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:39 am

Haya Yup;

Yeah I had a bad WiFi day yesterday; still some repercussions today, but will do what we can.. I love Neil Young, btw! Good choice, too!

Sorry you are having a bad day at work; where are you in Florida? That's where I am actually from! Bradenton/Sarasota. I still have family there. Need to visit them,someday.

I didn't touch the Tramadol either. Yeah I saw where they are scheduled now, too. They used to be available on the internet, but I was never interested. I'd been prescribed those years ago and they didn't do any good, so why mess with em? LoL.

The kid and the dog are driving me nuts; I will post more later. Hang in there, all of us!! Congrats, btw. It's monumental, even if it doesn't feel like it, atm.

Hugs,
Anne :)
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:26 pm

I’m at lunch and still have the stupid brain. It’s funny because I didn’t smoke pot yesterday so it’s not like I got really stoned last night and I’m still feeling the effects this morning. Then again, I haven’t smoked like that since I was in my early 20’s and my tolerance has gone down over the years. I remember a time in NYC where I went day drinking with some acquaintances and then smoked pot and got really, really sick. I was throwing up all over the place and needed to get a car back to my buddy’s house to sleep it off. I still threw up after getting there. From that point on I’ve been very careful about going overboard as it isn’t an experience I want to relive.

Anne, I’m in the Central Florida area (near Orlando) and it’s kind of a crappy place. I’m originally from Connecticut but I only lived there for a short period – I don’t really remember it – and moved down to South Florida, slightly north of Miami. I moved up here years ago and somewhat regret it. I don’t like Orlando very much, even though I liked it for a while. It’s just a large town that wants to be a city. They installed a commuter rail last year and it really doesn’t do anything to help whatsoever. Basically, you need a car here or you’re screwed and the people that don’t drive here are unfortunately poor or have DUI’s. It’s a great town for getting a DUI and a shitty place to be poor. :-(

I have a friend that moved to Sarasota a few years back and he loves it. I still haven’t been down to visit but with my job I never really go anywhere. I feel I need to take a trip somewhere soon as I’ve been stuck in this town for almost three years without going anywhere but Georgia once and the beach a few times. I just work all the time and when the weekend rolls around I just want to hang out and not do anything crazy. I was also on hydro’s for a while and then subs, which makes you complacent, especially when you’re not worried about running out.

It’s actually funny that Cheeps mentioned exercise (something I need to do more) in the last post as I’ve been getting my fair share of it today. I’ve had to go up and down the stairs at work about 50 times today (no exaggeration) and after a while my legs started to feel the burn. It made me hungry earlier than usual but there’s nothing wrong with that. I lost a few pounds when I was detoxing and while I’ve put most of it back on I can still notice where I need to put on more weight. I’m closer to skinny than anything and when you lose that weight so drastically it makes you feel even worse. I’m just glad my appetite is back to normal. I wrote about it yesterday (I think) and the extreme lack of appetite I experienced was grueling. To not want food and to actually have some foods make you feel nauseous is a terrible feeling and one I don’t want to go through again. I’m still glad that cigarettes smelled revolting since it made the first few weeks or quitting easier. It’s funny actually because I didn’t really crave a cigarette until I was about two weeks on the patch. The cravings were only there when around large groups of smokers but they have started to subside and I only feel them sometimes. I haven’t craved one for a few days and that’s a good feeling.

Unfortunately I have to get back to work in a moment. I have to spend the rest of the day doing paperwork and then going out on a drive with my boss for about two hours but it could be worse. I doubt I’ll get off work on time tonight but I don’t mind the extra hours and tomorrow is my short day. Now if I can get the cats to shut up during the evening tonight I’ll be golden. Last night they were a nightmare and kept waking my girlfriend up, which woke me up. It’s also new comic day and I’m going to grab my books after work.

Anne, RC, Cheeps: keep hanging in there. I have to believe that things will get better, that my brain and body will begin to feel closer to normal than they have, and that what lies ahead is better than being on subs (or jumping off them and going through the acute phase and now the PAWS). I’ve noticed improvements physically for a while now but the PAWS are going to linger for a while. I just hope it’s not years.
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby rc51guy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:15 pm

Hey yup! Florida is nice, in the winter! lol. Its WAY too hot and humid for me in the summer.

Exercise....Yea, you and me both. Like you, finding the time between work and everything else is hard to find. Fact is though, we both seem to be pretty active and busy so its not like we are sitting idle or in bed all day.

Find something to get your mood up. We both focus so much on work it seems that we are forgetting to focus on ourselves at this point. Do things you want to do when you have a free hour. Our brains are going to fix themselves....They are already so much healthier without the orange bullshit in them.

We will kick the crap out of paws....one day at a time. Its not going to linger for years. Get outside and breath.

Your doing great!
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby cheeps » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:30 pm

Hey....that's great that you had to climb steps....that's your daily exercise!! The amount of steps you take every day adds up to some serious body work. You should get one of those pedometers and count your steps....it makes you want to get to 10,00 a day. I heard that was a good amount. Somebody google that and educate us.

PAWS that lasts over a year is rare. Sure...it happens, but it's not like the way you feel now. I remember saying that my paws from methadone detox was all the way gone by 14 months....but the bulk of it was 2-5 months....then it got much better. But I have to remind you that methadone detox is different from sub. Things are more severe in the onset. Sub PAWS is not as debilitating...that being said....everyone is different and sometimes an individual can report the same severity.
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby rc51guy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:20 am

Day 72 for ya today yup. Friggin awesome! How do you feel so far today?

Do anything fun last night for yourself? Honestly you have to be good to yourself right now. It will get your mood up, I promise.

I started tinkering around with an old gas power washer last night. I love fixing things. It was a calm pleasant hour or so...made me happy as hell when I got spark back to the thing. I lost it again and didnt get it running but I made progress....and should have it running soon. I know, sounds stupid to some...but I love figuring out mechanics and fixing things that other people throw away because of simple problems. I know you do the comic book thing, but what else makes you happy? I know work doesn't make either one of us happy...so thats out. But theres gotta be something that you enjoy that occupies and challenges your brain?
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:46 am

Cheeps,

I wouldn’t say the PAWS I’ve experienced so far is debilitating but it’s been extremely difficult to handle sometimes. On the really bad days I either want to run away or lie in bed all day and give up. The problem is that reality kicks in and I know I can’t walk out on my job or stay in bed all day; I can’t walk away from the life I’ve built here. Also, I know I can’t stay in bed all day because I wake up with the sun nearly every damn morning. :-)

Again, I was up with the sun this morning but it’s getting easier to fall asleep again. Unfortunately, the cats were fighting right next to my bed about 30 minutes later. I wanted to kill the little fuckers but that feeling went away quickly and I fell asleep again for another two hours or so. I actually slept decently last night (that’s two adequate night’s sleep this week and without any sleep aids) but I forgot to take my nicotine patch off and had weird, intense dreams. Thankfully none of them were bad.

I need to start exercising more, especially at this stage. I’m 72 days off subs and, like RC said in an earlier post, I should be feeling better for long periods and he’s right, I do feel like I have more endurance and I don’t tire as easily as I did even a week or two ago. I feel if I kept to my walking regiment more strictly or started to add jogging into it that I’d feel even better. The problem with that is, again like RC said, finding the time is difficult. I’m sure I could make the time but not as much as I’d like to. For instance, I was planning on leaving work on time yesterday, everything was looking great for a normal workday and then at the last minute a bunch of stuff came up and changed that and I got out about 90 minutes late. I had dinner plans I had to push back but luckily it worked out but the chance of inserting a walk into the day was gone. It made me glad I had to climb those stairs dozens of times yesterday and I’m glad I did it now because I woke up in a better mood than I did earlier this week.

I can’t even imagine what methadone detox is like or the PAWS associated with it. All I can think of is that scene in Trainspotting where McGregor’s character goes clean and the world moves around him but he just sits there looking dejected and not moving a muscle. I can imagine that’s a weak visual representation of what it’s like, capturing 1/100th of the actual experience. I don’t know anybody that’s kicked methadone (or if I do they’ve never told me about it) but I can imagine it’s hell. I just looked and the half-life for methadone is shorter than subs but not by that much. That sounds awful.

RC,

Florida is nice in the winter but this year it got pretty brutal, at least by Florida standards. We had a handful of nights where it dropped below freezing and then we didn’t get the traditional Florida “spring” where it’s actually nice out for a few months. Instead it went from winter into summer-lite for a few weeks (temperatures in the 70’s during the day and the 60’s at night) and then right into 90 degrees every day. I checked the humidity level this morning and it was at 81%. That’s another issue with wanting to do anything physical. Some friends want to hit the beach this weekend but I don’t think I want to sit out on the sand when it’s supposed to hit 93 degrees and possibly rain.

I know PAWS isn’t going to last for years, at least the rational side of me does, but the freaked-out, anxious side that’s going through PAWS worries about it. There’s the impatient side of me that keeps asking how much longer will this last, the up’s and down’s, the feeling good one day and like a sad bastard the next? The world won’t wait for me to have a good day and going through the bad ones is frustrating. Sometimes it’s like being back in high school and in that one class you hate where you can swear the clock is actually moving backwards. You know it isn’t but that’s the feeling. On those days it’s like I can feel my life being whittled away one moment at a time. I know it’s like that for everybody but on the bad PAWS days it’s like I’m more aware of it or my mind dwells on it more. That drives me nuts.

I’m happy I can say I feel good about today. I don’t know if it’s the exercise I got yesterday, the fact that it’s my short day, or a combination of many factors. I guess I shouldn’t question it too much and just enjoy that I’m in a decent mood and not filled with anxiety.

RC, I just saw your post about the pressure washer while I was typing this up. I need to get on pressure washing my house but not until after the windows are installed, which should be by the end of the month. I wish I was handier with things like machines and I can fix some things but I spent so much time sticking my nose in books (both regular and comic), listening to music, or watching movies that I didn’t learn that much about fixing stuff. I’ve learned more in the last few years, especially since my job requires me to know about air conditioners, ventilation systems, and basically everything in an artificial environment for servers. That’s actually really awesome that you found one of those because they’re not cheap. I was pricing one at Home Depot a month or two ago and anything worth a damn is about $500 and up.

I’m not sure what I like anymore. I used to love writing and I still do but I keep asking myself to what end am I writing? Kafka wrote every night to get things out but he also gave us a litany of great fiction. It was mostly about his father but it’s still fantastic. I like to fix things around my house and after owning the place for almost a decade I’ve started to finally fix it up. Thankfully, nothing has gone wrong with it in that time or at least nothing serious. I’m excited to get new windows put in. The project, so far, has come in under budget and that leaves me with some extra money to play around with so I’m thinking about installing new doors which I can do myself, or with the help of a buddy if I bribe them with a six-pack and food.

The one thing that I’ve liked, and done on multiple occasions, is teaching. I used to volunteer and help functionally illiterate people learn to read. I also taught a few classes (or rather I guest lectured) when I was in college. I’ve always been good at that but I don’t want to make any drastic changes in my life for a few more months. I’m also afraid that I would hate teaching at the high school level and I’d be stuck in a school where the kids don’t give a shit and just sit on their phones all day. I also thought about how one would become a counselor and help others that are going through detox but I looked into the qualifications and I’d need more school and that’s something I can’t afford right now.

It’s weird because some things that made me happy when I was on subs and hydro’s don’t make me happy now. I used to love watching television but now that I’m off opiates I find that my ability to stomach most of what’s on Netflix or Hulu very difficult. I end up watching Star Trek, old Tim and Eric, or movies when I throw on the television but when people sit around telling me that I need to watch this show on HBO or that show I think about the sometimes 80 hour commitment you need to make to one series and it makes me not want to. I remember devouring Lost on DVD and Netflix after it ended and that was over 100 hours. I just can’t bring myself to do that anymore, as I don’t know if I have more time ahead of me than already logged behind me and I want to enjoy the world.

I want to keep typing but I need to get ready for work. I’m starting to run late as it is. I hope everybody is doing well today, that the PAWS aren’t kicking your ass, and that you’re still sub-free. Anne, I know you’re having Internet issues but I hope you’re doing well. RC, thanks for getting it and talking. Cheeps, thank you for everything you’ve said as it really has helped. I'll type more tonight. Again, thank you guys for everything. :D
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby amery2u » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:53 pm

Haya Yuppers;

What an awesome, expressive post; as always. Sorry I didn't get back on last night, spent time with the lil'man, as Daddy had to stay in a Hotel/Motel in Pt. Huron, Michigan. By the time they unloaded his semi, he was out of hours and then some. I encouraged him to stay, as it's at LEAST a four-hour drive.

Somehow, the kid's laptop isn't working during this techno switch-up, and he needs a computer AND his X-box, and his phone.... all at once; I don't get it, nor do I want to. We pay idk WHAT a month for Xbox live, and still he needs more?!? So...i've gotta share the PC, or fix his. Hmm....maybe I'll tinker with it later. I'm not computer-stupid by any means; just wish I'd've kept up with the "times." I used to be a computer-operator for General Propeller Company in Bradenton, in the late '80's. I could actually WRITE programs, back then. Knew DOS inside/out. Just fell away from technology, probably due to Hydros, OC, Percs, and the like. All which started "legally..." sheesh.

I know what you are saying about TV/movies, etc... I used to watch re-runs of Big Bang while subbing; lately my attention span is "different," as is my appetite. Both of probably which have broadened, but still . . . different. At least I'm "eating again," as well. I lived on Ramen noodles for a while...by choice. Cooked for the fam, and still, my "purple" Ramen bowl...with tons of pepper. Haven't touched it since, LoL.

This PAWS shit IS crazy; and for me, its not "day-to-day," It's almost "hour-to-hour." Motivation comes and goes. I just keep trekking. All I can do. I'm not anticipating a relapse; no money and no means, anyway. Most dealers don't take credit cards, and I have ONE left, for emergencies when the hubby is gone, and it's in HIS name; mine are in the gun-safe that I don't have the combo too... for now. I'm fine with that.

Okay son is fighting me for the PC; guess I'll go delete a shit-ton of stuff off his laptop, and go from there. Gonna check out a couple more threads before I hang my hat.

KEEP ON KEEPING ON, YEPPER, RC, CHEEPS. We are kinda like the dynamic quad .. ya know? It inspires me knowing you guys got a little time on me, and you care, and post....daily. Keeps me fighting the "good fight." Omigosh... okay gonna look up THAT song. Triumph...right??? Yeah, my tastes in music have changed as well. Much more mellow, and I don't know "why." Still like my self-deprecating stuff, keeps me in check. Like Tool~Sober & Staind~It's been awhile. Those were actually WRITTEN while they were getting off drugs. Crazy, eh?

Hugs,
ttys~ hope this finds you HAPPY & COZY in Kissimmee ! LoL (am I close?!?) I know the state WELL.....
Anne :)
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby cheeps » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:50 pm

Jesus....my cousin lives in Kissimmee. I never visit her because my mother hates her guts. She does have good reason so I stay away from mid state Florida!!

Anne! Yup! Everyone! I'm doing the day by day.

I feel like I'm supposed to be doing something EVERY fucking minute....and I also feel like I should be accomplishing stuff I've already done. I mean...I've helped peeps all my life. Done a shit ton of volunteer work. Still feel like I'm not done. Tired. Broke. Cranky at times. PAWS at times....but it is getting better!!!!
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:01 am

Anne and Cheeps,

Sorry for the short post but I’m running late for work today. I got off work late last night and decided I was going to walk/jog for a few minutes before dinner and it basically threw my whole nightly routine off and I ended up going to sleep way later than I wanted to. The lady cooked me dinner again and we watched Pet Sematary, which was pretty awesome. I haven’t seen that movie in 20 years and forgot that it’s actually a well-done horror movie. She wants to watch Pet Sematary II tonight but I think I’ll have to pass. I saw it in the theater when I was a kid and thought it was cheesy back then. Plus, it has the kid from Terminator 2 and I think he was only worth a damn in one other movie besides T2 (which was John Waters’ Pecker).

Anne, I’m sorry you were having such a bad day yesterday. I get those too and bitch and moan on my thread regularly so I can relate. Just remember, it will get better. Cheeps was right about the exercise, which is something I haven’t done religiously but I think I need to. It helps with appetite and it does get the endorphins going. I notice that when I do it, even if the next day is bad, I still feel a little better. I can imagine a strict workout regimen, where I go to the gym a few times a week would make me feel way better but like RC, I don’t think I can fit it in. I wish I could but I know myself and I’d pay money for a gym membership and never go but on the weekends. I’d need a gym right next to my job for it to be worthwhile. :-(

It’s funny you mention ramen noodles because I saw them the other night at the grocery store and thought about how that was most of my diet when I was in my early 20’s. I haven’t had them in a long time and don’t miss them. I know if I needed to that I’d eat them every night but thankfully I don’t need to right now. Last night the lady made some awesome Polish thing I can’t remember the name of but it was delicious, especially after walking and jogging for 20 minutes.

And for the record, I don’t live in Kissimmee (I hate Kissimmee :-) ). I live in a little town outside Orlando called Maitland. It’s basically Orlando, which is only three towns away so I guess it’s a suburb of Orlando but I can reach all the good things in Orlando (non-theme park stuff) in about 10-15 minutes. Unfortunately, the commuter rail here doesn’t run at night or on the weekends or I’d take that down to shows and bars but I’m still trying to avoid all that for another month or so as I don’t want any temptation for a cigarette.

Yesterday I was listening to Neil Young’s album Harvest while working and heard The Needle and the Damage Done and it made me think about all the years that I took pills. There’s a line where he says he sees the potential for addiction in everybody – “a little part of it in everyone” – and it made me remember how easy it is to get addicted to these things. It makes me happy I quit hydro’s and subs because it’s possible to end up like the subject of the song, which I believe was Young’s roadie.

My alarm went off, telling me I have one more alarm before I have to get into work. I’ll check in later, probably at lunch, but I have to get inside and look cheerful. Anne, RC, Cheeps – keep hanging in there. Sometimes it is hour to hour and sometimes it’s day to day but please don’t give up. We’re all so far along and giving up now would mean that all the suffering we went through would be for nothing. I know we can all beat this, kick our addictions right in the balls and move forward into the sometimes scary future. I guess after telling those guys to politely get the fuck out of my yard this morning gave me a boost of confidence that I sorely needed.

And here’s the Neil Young song. It made me weepy because I’ve seen what heroin can do to people (my parents) and I’ve seen what weaker opiates can do to me and I know there’s better days ahead. Not all of them will be great but there will be the good ones peppered in. :-)

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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby rc51guy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:22 am

Image
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Re: 49 Days Off Subs and Today was Terrible

Postby yup. » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:40 am

RC,

I hate being that guy who says, "get off my lawn" or "you damn skateboarders" but it kind of freaked me out. I thought for a second that somebody was foreclosing on my house without telling me. Plus, I just put my new window deposit down recently and I though, "oh shit, there goes all that money." It was scary but thankful it was just people that don't know how to count. :-)

I hope you're hanging in there and having a good day. I'll check in again at lunch. :-)

Also, I love that meme.
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