Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

"Staying Clean" a place to share how you stay clean or got clean

Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby Dave_OHHH » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:08 pm

I couldn't count how many people wanted me to try rehab or meetings. But Subblows said it perfectly - " Fuck no, where was the higher power during the bad times? inside me. I'm no where near over this battle, but I feel alive again" The higher power is only inside oneself. I knew it, but I had not seen it for years. This journey for me, partly, is to find my inner higher power. I knew it was in there, I had just lost track of it though. I have found it in my deepest depths, and I dragged it out from there and put it to use where it belongs. I will NEVER ..... EVER lose track of it again like a set of keys or that left shoe. (or my wallet, I used to lose that fucker twice a year and I always somehow made sure there was cash and other important I.d. stuff in there right when I lost it, every time)
Clean from suboxone Since 10/20/2012 - Welcome Back To Dave's Dangalin Diner ! And.... ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby cheeps » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:30 pm

10 yrs on methadone
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby HammyPammy » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:40 pm

My fiance's been to 7 rehabs since he was 13, each time just getting worse once released...you know when you see someone hanging themselves and someone else bleeding heavily from their wrists in your tub, at 13, in a mob-runned rehab..doesn't really help... or inspire any confidence in such a system, atleast for me :P
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby jayro » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:56 pm

I went to NA twice. Everyone there was on subs. They all acted as if they were clean. I was one of them...
Addicted from 1875 - 2014
Kicked Jan, 1 2014
75 years on Laudanum
25 years on Dr. Thomas' Magical Pain Elixer ™
25 years on Goofenthol ®
12 years on Fun Pills
2 years on Subs

Book me into a goofy clinic. NOW!
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby ExitWounds » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:12 pm

SubSucker wrote:Well said OP.

I got clean the first time around with NA/AA and I'll never knock it- it's just not my bag any more. Pun intended? Perhaps...

Once I got a year clean under my belt my whole take on meetings changed. I saw a cat with 8 years clean still whining about not getting a corner booth at the coffee shop but hey- "at least he didn't use". Whoa- something isn't right here! Is THAT who I wanted to be at 8 years clean? Addicted to meetings? World revolving around program functions ONLY? Nah. In fact FUCK nah... This was the same wife-beating jerk who chastised me for working the 13th step. Fuck it- me and the VERY-lucky lass stayed clean at least until I threw her cab fare around 5:00am... forgive me lovely ladies of Subsux - I was but a lad back then ;-)

I suppose in the zealot's mind I messed up after 18 years off dope because I "wasn't working the program" <endless echoes here for emphasis> but that's a whole 'nother topic for some other day. I have a much different theory. Things change and shit happens. LIFE and death happen and so do the best-laid plans of mice and men. Full stop. Some other time on all that noise...

I will say this to be fair as I'm a very fair laddy indeed- NA welcomed me at my worst and until personalities came before principles it worked for me. I learned a lot of good things- it was the kick in the ass that I needed at the time.

I'm all over the place in this post as I'm pretty mind-scrambled right now so I'll stop. Or will I?

It was the fact that AA/NA is NOT shoved down your throat here that made me comfortable enough to post. I'm an old fucker and I sure as hell don't need nor will I pay any mind to some 28 year old holier than thou twat telling me I MUST go to meetings to get clean and God forbid I blow a joint when I'm feeling better. :nono: I'm pretty sure I will but that remains to be seen.

It's was also important to me that there is not an anti-AA/NA agenda here either. The attitude seems to be "take it or leave it" and THAT is exactly what I needed.

I am grateful for my time way back when "in the program" and I'm grateful for this site, meaning the people behind the text on white, here too.

It's all good, no?

Hell yeah!

Hangin' tough and kickin' like a chicken *cluck cluck*

1.5 days clean Fuck YOU Freddy! And No- I DON'T need a meeting. :banghead:

At least not just for today...


-SubSucker


Dude, that's actually funny text.
Because easy has no meaning.
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby AVinLo » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:30 am

When I first started seeing my addiction doctor, one of his stipulations was going to AA/NA. I went to 1 NA meeting and just sat there listening to these people talk about their daily life struggles and it depressed me. I never spoke a word to anyone mostly because I didn't know any of these people. Anyways, when the meeting ended I grabbed some literature and left. I got home and searched AA/NA on Google and up popped a Penn and Teller: Bullshit episode on AA. I watched that and it resonated with me that "willpower" is just what it is...The "will" to "power" through the shit in life never giving up until they find their success. The more I thought about and even now I realize that we all have that "will" inside of us. Some people find it quick in life and others struggle to find it, but eventually do. Some people while searching sadly succumb to their failures and never get a second chance to try again.

With the AA/NA structure I struggle with the "higher power" and "you are powerless" stance as well as the 12 Step process as a whole. It may work for some, but not all. Mentally impotent people might find success in the AA/NA process, but I think we all have the power within to change our lives and in no way are we "powerless" to do anything. We all have a choice each and every day to use drugs. We all have the "will" to "power" through the craving to use drugs and stay clean. Now, this doesn't mean we don't ever occasionally need moral support, but that support doesn't necessarily have to come from an ex-junkie. I'd prefer to get that support from people that love me unconditionally, my family. This is just my opinion....... :popcorn:
"Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or even a year, but ,eventually, it WILL subside. And, something else will take it's place. If I quit however....it will last forever!"

Tramadol- 2006 to 2011♢Vicodin to Oxy's- 2011 to 2013♢Suboxone- 2013 to 2014♢Quit 3 mg Suboxone on 8/26/14
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby Justjules13 » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:52 am

I agree AV. The "powerless" bit really turns me off too...
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby cheeps » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:35 pm

Time for a quickie......


The only time I'm powerless is during a big gut wrenching sweat bead popping eye crossing detox shit. :roll: me and my god....we got a reall good thing. :cheers-smashed:
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby Bpdptsd » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:15 pm

I've been to one NA meeting myself and I felt awkward as hell! They all held hands and huddled together. Between the bad breath and BO I was DONE! No thanks. I am the one that controls my drug use or my sobriety, no one else. Not a magical man in the sky. Being powerless over anything just makes you sound weak minded. Take control and do your best! Yes, I'm so glad to read this.
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby Justjules13 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:28 pm

Amen, to this^^^^ :lol:
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby cheeps » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:19 pm

ok jules....here's the lowdown on the place I went.


1. never choose a detox in the midst of a three day panic attack.
2. always call a trusted friend and tell them what's going down...so they can remind you NOT to go to a place that does rehab....detox only.
3. never choose a detox/rehab that tells you what you want to hear over the phone, they promise everything but deliver nothing.
4. if you are stupid enough to go to a detox/rehab, don't go the day before a holiday. Nobody knows squat because the regular crew is on vacation.
5. if you go to a detox/rehab late in the day and want to change your mind.....do so immediately and come back the next morning.
6. never go to a 12 step rehab if you are an atheist.
7. hiding in the shower during meetings is cool.
8. make sure the place you pick serves real food that does NOT come out of a carton or can unless it is milk or Bush's baked beans.
9.always hide an extra $40 in pocket in your luggage....tape the shit in there. You might need to call a cab.
10. if you smoke take enough cigarettes for ten other people or get real damn good at hiding your stash.
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby cheeps » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:04 am

Disclaimer...do not read if you are a 12stepper.


Alcoholics Anonymous Destroys Self-Esteem and Self-Sufficiency
Dangerous Cult, Controversy, Truth regarding Alcoholics Anonymous

I have discovered that this program called Alcoholics Anonymous is dangerous in ways that may be difficult to understand. Most people, in general, need to find self-love and empowerment. Most people do not need to be beaten down and stripped of their power. AA steals your soul and any chance you may have at fulfilling your dreams. The indoctrination is so powerful that even brilliance is not recognized by the brilliant due to the abuse they suffered after spending time in AA.

I have been given permission to reveal the author and to post the following re-write of the 12 steps. If you have ever spent any time in the rooms you will recognize this chanting at the beginning of every meeting — but what follows is truth and not disempowering, dangerous, brainwashing dogma. It is brilliance.

The New Twelve Steps —

RARELY HAVE they seen a person who has thoroughly followed their path. Those who do recover are usually people who have recognized AA as a dangerous religious cult, and will not give themselves completely to AA’s fanatical program. The AA Cult is constituted primarily of men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with anyone… including themselves.

Some of them are not at fault; They were screwed the second they set foot into the church basement door. They were systematically indoctrinated into believing that alcoholics are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands any type of honesty. They should still be held accountable for the behavior that has ruined so many lives. Many AA members suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders. The program requires that they believe alcoholics can never recover. Most of the people who quit drinking without AA have recovered in large part, due to their self-determination and ability to act rationally. Our stories disclose in a general way what We used to be like, what happened, and what We are like now.
If You have decided You want to leave Alcoholics Anonymous and are willing to go to any lengths to do it – then You are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these We were delighted. We were sure that We had found a more sound and reasonable way. With all of the earnestness at our command, We encourage You to be resolute and confident from the very start. Some of Us have tried to hold on to Our old AA ideas and the result was nil until We let go absolutely. Remember that WE deal with Alcoholics Anonymous – cunning, baffling, dishonest! Continuing the mental masturbation was too much for Us.

There is only one person who has the power to overcome your alcohol problem – that person is You. May You trust and believe in Yourself now! Delusions and superstitious nonsense availed Us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We learned to protect and care for Ourselves with complete Self-acceptance. Here are the steps We took which are encouraged as a course of action to escape the AA mind trap…

1. We decided We were “Not Powerless” over alcohol – that Our lives had become dominated by AA.

2. Came to understand that We were never as morally reprehensible as some AA members had led Us to believe.

3. Made a decision to turn and walk away from Alcoholics Anonymous forever.

4. Made a scorching and fearless indictment against AA as an organization.

5. Admitted to Ourselves and another Human Being that We had been ambushed into joining a religious cult.

6. Were entirely ready to relieve Ourselves of the self-defeating bullshit We were taught at AA.

7. Familiarized Ourselves with cult indoctrination tactics in order that We may never fall into a similar trap again.

8. Made a list of all AA-members who had harmed Us, and became willing to confront them all.

9. Called such people on their bullshit whenever possible, except when to do so would significantly injure them or others.

10. Continued to indict Alcoholics anonymous and when We were wronged promptly expressed our disapproval of it.

11. Sought scientific empirical evidence that could help Us to defeat addiction; focusing on Ourselves as the Power to carry that out.

12. Having been awakened from the AA nightmare as a result of these steps, We tried to carry this message to other victims of AA, so that everyone might know the truth about the Alcoholics Anonymous cult.

You are not alone.

Many of Us have been misled by the religion that claims not to be a religion. Some of Us suffered for years oblivious to the fact that AA offers no reliable or even sincere method to help alcohol troubled people to recover from addiction. When We felt hopeless. They used it against Us.

They told us We were powerless.
They did it to break Us down.
They did it to make Us unsure of Ourselves.
They did it to recruit new members for their religious cult.
We’re here to expose AA for what it really is. If You’ve tried AA over and over again, and You’re not getting the results you were promised, maybe it’s time You tried something else.
Think about it.

— Gunthar

Like I said — Brilliance.

However, many members (and ex-members), have an understandably difficult time deprogramming from all the scare tactics forced down their throats in AA.

Why?

You see, Bill Wilson was the kind of person who had to lie about who he was because he hated himself for very specific reasons, that we will never know — very specific reasons that he avoided facing his entire life. He avoided delving into his self-hate by becoming a guru, all the while acting as if he did not want to be a guru. He is the most brilliant guru of all time.

And since he hates himself so, rather than figure out why, he had to develop a program that would make its members hate themselves just as much, or hopefully more … to justify his hate-filled heart and to develop a posse of fawning disciples. Oh, and to 13th step (sexually harass) all the women.

Wilson had chronic depression and killed himself slowly with nicotine and then begged for whiskey on his death-bed — now that’s some SERIOUS SELF HATE. Having compassion for him is fine as long as you refrain from following his path or from defending his cult religion.

Stay the fuck away from AA.

— Laura Tompkins
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby The Blind Ass » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:16 pm

There is special place in hell where AA meetings are the only thing on the schedule.
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby cheeps » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:56 am

Here Is a link to a pretty good article about AA and the lack of science to support it....but it centers on drinking more so than drugging. I believe that beyond opiates there are meds, regular and comfort, that can help people reduce some forms of drug abuse.

It's long but very interesting...written in 2015.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... us/386255/
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby CheeZeeAnnDee » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:10 pm

That's a fascinating article to me, Cheeps, thanks for posting it. Also, did I read that correctly, that the guy who founded AA actually stopped drinking after tripping on belladonna? That is fucking hilarious, if true.
All you have is your fire
And the place you need to reach
Don't you ever tame your demons
But always keep them on a leash

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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby cheeps » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:37 pm

I think it's correct. The atlantic it's fairly upstanding. Ole bill wasn't real chill. :)

I have a girlfriend that swears by her AA group. She holds a huge role in the LBGT community where she lives. It has worked for her. Again, commitment and support turned her life around...that support group has special powers as the peeps have a tighter bond than most other groups per her insight. She is a sponsor with 23 years clean and she has 4-7 sponsees. Shes down to earth, artistic, funny as shit and she's the person who came to stay with me during the three day kick.

While I think she could cut out the number of meetings she attends, the sponsees would freak. So that is her way Of giving back and keeping her in check. I think she could moderate her intake as the article suggests but she is fearful because of the AA brainwashing and she was a zero to two hundred shot glass drunk.

Ok...n I'm in the surgeon s office.....just Fuck me.
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Re: Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

Postby Sub zero » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:56 pm

This little speech from an episode of Dark Angel best describes the way I've always viewed 12-Step groups like AA...

http://tammygrl23.tumblr.com/post/96027823591/donal-lydecker-aa-meeting-speech-from-dark-angel

:laughpound: :laughpound: :laughpound: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If I could go back and do it all over again...I wouldn't

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